Was he playing??

[Filardimarg2]

Tonight when i had Rio out, i had put some water in a shallow bowl for him to have a drink, (which he has every night, very cute, he drinks from my hand)There was also a small basin with some warm water in it, when he started to put his head in & out of this little bowl, just as if he was playing in it:cool: Has anyone else had this happen.
Marg.

[Roy Munson]

I've seen it, but I don't think any snake "plays". ;)

[Filardimarg2]

I didn't mean "play" as a child would, I just meant that i have only had him about a week & never seen him do anything like that before.
Marg.

[Roy Munson]

I didn't mean "play" as a child would, I just meant that i have only had him about a week & never seen him do anything like that before.
Marg.
Well, I don't know how many definitions of "play" there are. Crows, otters, lion cubs, and other animals are said to "play". I don't believe that snakes engage in even the animal sort of play. :)

[Coty]

I think that many social animals (mostly mammals) engage in "playful" behavior.

As snakes are solitary animals, if they did play it would be to entertain themselves?

I am not going to imply that I understand the reptilian mind, but from what I have gathered snakes are relatively simple animals. When they are not sleeping or finding food/water, their behavior comes across as pretty functional.

[sarcare]

I have a good friend who keeps fish who explained that there are three thoughts that all fish have, and I think that they pretty much translate directly to snakes. These are they:
1. Can I eat it?
2. Can it eat me?
3. Can I mate with it?
Snakes seem less concerned with three then my fish, but my fish are crazy.

[Okeetee_Corn_Snakes]

I have a good friend who keeps fish who explained that there are three thoughts that all fish have, and I think that they pretty much translate directly to snakes. These are they:
1. Can I eat it?
2. Can it eat me?
3. Can I mate with it?
Snakes seem less concerned with three then my fish, but my fish are crazy.

I think this is a pretty good explanation.

From what I gather from owning snakes and reading about them is that they are not like many animals. I do not believe that snakes are even capable of the emotion "love". Not like humans or even cats and dogs etc. I think that they have personality differences between each one, and some characteristics specific to certain species.

However the way snakes act, I believe, is based on almost 100% instinct. I have seen my snakes act in wierd ways that suggest play, however I know its not. The way they are...it just can't be. This does not stop me from wishing it were true though, that when my snakes look up to me its in a loving way. :grin01:

Another interesting thing is when a snake may prefer one person to another. It does not mean the snake has "hateful" feelings towards the "least favorite person", but rather that the snake is sensitive to certian pharamones and such that makes the one person less of a threat to the other.

[Talinea]

I think that many social animals (mostly mammals) engage in "playful" behavior.

As snakes are solitary animals, if they did play it would be to entertain themselves?


Short remark: Play in general is not linked to social living animals. It is described as "spontaneous actions which seem senseless in the moment of being carried out, often instinctive behaviours beside their normal context or order, eg exaggerated movements that seem out of place."

Play is normally found in mammals and birds, but there exist simple playing behaviours in fish and some more differentiated in reptiles (Cited from memory, source is MEYER-HOLZAPFEL, M. (1962), if there's interest I'll look for the exact infos)

Eg there are documentaries that show playing behaviour in great white sharks (Carcharodon carcharias), and who of us would have said these are no "solidary animals"? Or "simple" animals because they are "only" fish?


In fact I couldn't tell if my snake is playing because I don't know why it is doing something special - did the snake try to catch a reflexion on the water? Did it want to drink? Did it want to swim or dive? Did it want to play?

I don't want to affront someone, but I don't think we should draw a sharp line between eg reptiles and mammals/birds saying "yes, these can have emotions/feelings/play/whatever and these can absolutely not".
And as long as we find play in fish I wouldn't deny a cornsnake the possibility to play just because it can't smile or catch a ball of wool ;) My 2ct

[Filardimarg2]

Seems i opened a can of worms here, sorry about that.
Thanks for the replies.
Marg.

[Coty]

I think it depends on your source.

However, the occurrence of play in nonavian reptiles is controversial and poorly documented.

from: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/68749/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

I think that it is relatively safe to say that opinions vary.

My phrasing was vague, but as an educator of children with special needs I automatically think of normal "play" behavior as social. I think there are more than one definition of the word.

play behaviour in reptiles, amphibians and fish? Before looking at this further we need to sort out exactly what ‘play’ really is. How can it be defined? Of course this is something that ethologists have been arguing about for decades, and lengthy papers and virtually entire books (see Smith 1984 and Bekoff & Byers 1998) have been devoted to this topic alone.

from: http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/06/dinosaurs-come-out-to-play.html

[Talinea]

Yes, on that I absolutely agree ;), it depends on the definition and needs much more research. I think it's an absolutely fascinating topic and I'd love to work on it... but since I do some ethological research at the moment (wolves, for my diploma thesis) I know that the most important factor in this area is money - unfortunately.
Perhaps, as soon as someone intends to sell toys for corns - there will be financial interest for that :rolleyes: like little non-eatable rubber mice or something :laugh:

[Coty]

Seems i opened a can of worms here, sorry about that.

I don't think you should apologize. At its best this site is dedicated to the sharing of ideas and information of animals in which there is a common interest. The fact that there is in fact a degree of rational and intelligent debate indicates that your thread is quite valid, and interesting.

[Talinea]

And again I agree - you started a nice, interesting discussion that worked with substantiated arguments and citations instead of flaming or senseless arguing :) I would be glad if all threads in all forums worked that well out!
So - thank you for opening the worm-can :laughs:!