Obesity in snakes.

[jennrosefx]

I've got an ongoing problem with Pumpkin. Over the past couple years, she's become rather plump. It's been a gradual thing, I suppose, so it wasn't until recently when the severity of it smacked me in the face. I noticed her developing "Hips" if you will, sometime back. I reduced her feeding schedule to 1 mouse every 10-12 days (before that is was 1 every 7, so it's not like she was ever power fed or anything of the sort). It's been that way for the past year, and she's just gotten... fatter. I don't know what it is. Do you think some snakes within a same species might just have different metabolisms and hers is just abnormally slow? Is less frequent feeding then hurting her metabolism like in humans? Would more frequent, but smaller meals do her better? Can snakes develop thyroid problems? (do snakes even have thyroids?)

I love her regardless of how she looks (and in my eyes, she's still beautiful), and have no intentions of ever breeding her. But, I am concerned for her general health and quality of life. Is this something vet-worthy in your eyes? Is there an obvious change in diet I should be making? I'm trying to up her handling to 5 days a week instead of 1 or 2... that should help perhaps? I might try moving her cage to a darker area of the house. Maybe more privacy will encourage more activity?

Am I over thinking all this?

Here's some pics. You know me... you know I take good care of my babies. I feel awful looking at these pics. I know a little bit of heft in female corns isn't unheard of... but she's only 4 1/2 years old or so.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2897159025_cf4ee8e81e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/2898003480_cf312001be_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/2897159955_a0d3eb030a_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/2897160627_32da609933_o.jpg

[diamondlil]

I read that up and down stairs is good exercise for snakes too. I don't think the slow metabolism would be the same as in humans, because we use a lot of energy in thermoregulation. And exercise would increase her metabolic rate anyway.
I feed my adults on 14 day schedules, except the post breeding girls who are currently on weekly feeds. I'd say a longer interval between feeds would help make her more active, so she's out actively hunting for food after she's digested.
Regardless, she's a lovely snake, and will be even lovelier when she slims a little bit.

[bitsy]

My (healthy) adult non-breeding males are given one large mouse every 3-4 weeks during the winter and are perfectly OK. As long as she has no other issues, I think you could gradually ease her down to that sort of regime for the next 4-5 months and see how she goes.

Corns do seem to have quite individual metabolisms - what would be starvation rations for one, could be a perfectly adequate maintenance regime for another. You really have to tailor what you give to each beastie, and in your case, I think Pumpkin does need to just plain eat less.

Here in the UK a few years back, we used to have problems with a metabolic disorder that caused Corns to put on massive reserves of fat, even when kept on a normal feeding regime (I lost one of my first snakes to it). It's gradually been bred out over the generations, but I guess it might still be out there in the gene pool. To be honest, I'd be surprised if that was the problem.

As far as exercise goes, again, each Corn will be more or less active. Putting a less active Corn in a large viv containing loads of ground cover and climbing equipment, won't encourage them to exercise. They'll just find their favourite spot and stay there. A friend of mine who takes in occasional rescues, does swear by supervised stair climbing sessions two or three times a week (as long as the Corn isn't over-stressed by it). Not only does that burn off fat, but it tones up muscles as well.

[sarcare]

You can also let your snake swim, I allow my largest snake to swim in a critter keeper with about three or four inches of water. She is long enough that if she really hated the water she could get out quite easily, but she will usually swim around for a little. It is good exercize, and she inevitably poops in the water. Easier to clean up that way!

[diamondlil]

My (healthy) adult non-breeding males are given one large mouse every 3-4 weeks during the winter and are perfectly OK. As long as she has no other issues, I think you could gradually ease her down to that sort of regime for the next 4-5 months and see how she goes.

Corns do seem to have quite individual metabolisms - what would be starvation rations for one, could be a perfectly adequate maintenance regime for another. You really have to tailor what you give to each beastie, and in your case, I think Pumpkin does need to just plain eat less.

Here in the UK a few years back, we used to have problems with a metabolic disorder that caused Corns to put on massive reserves of fat, even when kept on a normal feeding regime (I lost one of my first snakes to it). It's gradually been bred out over the generations, but I guess it might still be out there in the gene pool. To be honest, I'd be surprised if that was the problem.

As far as exercise goes, again, each Corn will be more or less active. Putting a less active Corn in a large viv containing loads of ground cover and climbing equipment, won't encourage them to exercise. They'll just find their favourite spot and stay there. A friend of mine who takes in occasional rescues, does swear by supervised stair climbing sessions two or three times a week (as long as the Corn isn't over-stressed by it). Not only does that burn off fat, but it tones up muscles as well.
Yep, sorry Bitsy, I should have added that I don't brumate, so go down to 3-4 week intervals over the winter.

[RobbiesCornField]

JENNY CRAIG!!!!
No, but in all seriousness, the one thing I did notice when looking at the pictures was that she seems to start getting "chubby" in the lower third of her body, and then it seems to be at the largest right around the cloaca. Is there possibly something that got stuck, and it's causing a backup? I don't know for sure, mind you, but that's just what it looks like to me. The rest of her looks nice and slender, it just looks like she's dragging some extra saddlebags for the hips.

[Saffleur]

JENNY CRAIG!!!!
No, but in all seriousness, the one thing I did notice when looking at the pictures was that she seems to start getting "chubby" in the lower third of her body, and then it seems to be at the largest right around the cloaca. Is there possibly something that got stuck, and it's causing a backup? I don't know for sure, mind you, but that's just what it looks like to me. The rest of her looks nice and slender, it just looks like she's dragging some extra saddlebags for the hips.

I noticed that too and wondered the same thing, the upper 2/3 of her body looks "normal" but then she just kinda balloons out.

[mike17l]

I would recommend feeding every 21 or so days for a while (7-8 months or more), then drop it down to every 14 days.

[lizardgal06]

maybe shes egg bound? i know its rare.. but maybe she should go to the vet.. i had my snakes on a weekly feeding schedule and there all fine. not fat.. i think theres a problem down there. get her to a vet.

[lizardgal06]

one more thing is that "luv handle" hard or mushy? could be a tumor.

[Nanci]

JENNY CRAIG!!!!
No, but in all seriousness, the one thing I did notice when looking at the pictures was that she seems to start getting "chubby" in the lower third of her body, and then it seems to be at the largest right around the cloaca. Is there possibly something that got stuck, and it's causing a backup? I don't know for sure, mind you, but that's just what it looks like to me.

That's just what they look like, Robbie. It's positively just a case of an "easy keeper."

[jpccusa]

JENNY CRAIG!!!!
No, but in all seriousness, the one thing I did notice when looking at the pictures was that she seems to start getting "chubby" in the lower third of her body, and then it seems to be at the largest right around the cloaca. Is there possibly something that got stuck, and it's causing a backup? I don't know for sure, mind you, but that's just what it looks like to me. The rest of her looks nice and slender, it just looks like she's dragging some extra saddlebags for the hips.

I noticed that too and wondered the same thing, the upper 2/3 of her body looks "normal" but then she just kinda balloons out.

That is what is called "snake hips." That area would be the belly in male humans, and the hips in female humans (areas where fat tend to accumulate).

maybe shes egg bound? i know its rare.. but maybe she should go to the vet.. i had my snakes on a weekly feeding schedule and there all fine. not fat.. i think theres a problem down there. get her to a vet.

She could, but considering she is not being bred and considering the breeding season is over, I doubt she is egg bound.

one more thing is that "luv handle" hard or mushy? could be a tumor.

It's not a tumor.

[SnakesRule1234]

JENNY CRAIG!!!!
No, but in all seriousness, the one thing I did notice when looking at the pictures was that she seems to start getting "chubby" in the lower third of her body, and then it seems to be at the largest right around the cloaca. Is there possibly something that got stuck, and it's causing a backup? I don't know for sure, mind you, but that's just what it looks like to me. The rest of her looks nice and slender, it just looks like she's dragging some extra saddlebags for the hips.

I agree with this. TBH, the snake doesn't actually look fat- like some I've seen. When was the last time she pooped?

It doesn't really look healthy, maybe you should got to the vet and see if you can get an x-ray done. Might show if it's obesity or something stuck.

[jpccusa]

I agree with this. TBH, the snake doesn't actually look fat- like some I've seen. When was the last time she pooped?

That would be A LOT of poop! :laugh01:

[RobbiesCornField]

That would be A LOT of poop! :laugh01:

Don't laugh. I have a boa whose poo's are the size of large chihuahuas.

[jpccusa]

Don't laugh. I have a boa whose poo's are the size of large chihuahuas.

OMG, large chihuahuas!!! :laugh01:
Does it get the hips before passing the "doggies?"

[SnakesRule1234]

I can definitely tell when Spike is going to poo... he gets slight hips... I don't know about boas, though, since I never had one.

[jennrosefx]

I doubt that it is anything stuck. She poops QUITE regularly, and in good amounts... heh. So it's not back up in that sense. I know in rare cases a snake that has never breed can develop unfertile eggs... but I've also heard you could "feel" them. This all just feels soft.

I don't think it's a tumor either. It FEELS like fat. Even though the rest of her appears more slender in the pics, I'll be honest... she's not the most toned snake out there. She has a bit of squish all the way up... but happens to have the MOST squish in the lower 1/3rd.

I think I will weigh her tonight. I have the photos I posted here as well. I'll start reducing the feeding a bit more. Every 2-3 weeks, going down to every 3 weeks over the winter. Then I can weigh and take more photos and have something to compare it too.

[Ricky87]

That looks like something worthy of seeking medical attention. The top half of her body looks normal, but it get's drastically larger towards her tail. I don't think exercise would help much, seeing as their cold blooded. Humans can lose weight through exercise, but getting a cold blooded creature to is just alot different. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope she gets better!

[Saffleur]

A snake can indeed be...exercised. Simply letting them crawl through your hands continually is exrcising, doing so every day for 15 minutes will help snakes with weight issues.

[susang]

My girl has been like this since last year when she was bred, did lay eggs, but never had the deflated look after. 6 weeks after first lay she had another clutch of very immature eggs. She refused two males this year, multiple times. She is now on one small mouse every 3 weeks. She gets plenty of exercise. I am not breeding next year but I will brumate her just to see if she can get rid of the hips. By the way no tumor, poos normal... Enclosed picture for comparison. She is a very long snake around 56".

[kathylove]

Although that snake shows a fairly extreme example of "hips" (especially for a young adult), I have had a few that extreme. Although I have no reason to believe it is anything different, based on the photo, of course I can't be sure. But "hips" (fat deposits) is what I would call it. I do have a copy of a vet report from somebody who once had a snake that looked like that, so she took it to a vet and they actually did a biopsy, just to be sure. They found fat deposits. However, I would never discourage somebody from going to a HERP vet (not cat and dog vet) if they are really concerned. You know your snake better than anyone else does. But I would not be overly concerned if it was my snake.

When I have a snake showing hips, I still offer food once per week like I do for all adults. But instead of a jumbo mouse or a couple of weaned mice, I might offer only a hopper. And I try to give it a little exercise, although that is easier if you have only a few pets. I think the suggestions given for more exercise are on track. If your snake is genetically predisposed to this pattern of fat deposits, you will probably not get rid of it entirely, even if your snake loses a lot of weight. You probably know people who lost a lot of weight but still had "love handles" or who still complained about a big rear. However, you can probably diet and exercise her enough to keep her in good health and to lose part of excess fat in the rear third of her body.

[susang]

Not meaning to take over your thread Jennifer.
Kathy I like the idea of one small hopper size every week, keeps the momentum going. I know in humans starving is not a great way to lose weight. What do you think about brumating as weight lose. The chances of me breeding next year are about 5%.

[diamondlil]

I'd think brumating wouldn't help, as typically people brumating snakes don't report much weightloss at all. Keeping the snake at active temps would keep it burning calories over the winter?

[kathylove]

Yes, I agree. Very little weight is lost under proper brumation conditions. However, if the snake is healthy, breeding and egg laying does take a lot of energy, and causes weight loss. But if she has poor muscle tone, or is TOO fat, it could possibly increase chances of egg binding.

[jennrosefx]

Not meaning to take over your thread Jennifer.
Kathy I like the idea of one small hopper size every week, keeps the momentum going. I know in humans starving is not a great way to lose weight. What do you think about brumating as weight lose. The chances of me breeding next year are about 5%.

No worries! Hey, it's still semi-relevant to the thread, and the more info for me to read the better! :)

And I agree. I think I'm going to try out keeping her on the same feeding schedule but just with a smaller food item. Will also try more handling and see where I'm at in 6 months or so.

[Nanci]

I think Pumpkin needs to watch this exercise video:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o307/nlevake/th_LilasExerciseVideo.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o307/nlevake/?action=view&current=LilasExerciseVideo.flv)

[susang]

Very cute Nanci, but I think you got more exercise then the snakes.

[Em Wright]

heehee Nanci! You always find the good stuff. ;)