Metal in a mouse...My Poor Festivus

[starsevol]

I'm still shaking as I write this. Yesterday morning I thawed some mice to feed 2 of the rosy boas (Sadie and Bernice), 4 of the "big snakes" (Sniper, Snafu, Calvin and Kate), and my 3 male 07s (Lugosi, Voldermort and Festivus). They all ate, and I went to work.

When I got home I thawed 5 more hoppers for rosys Annie, Edison, Ed. Fred and Buddy. Ed and Buddy decided to refuse, so I gave the hoppers to BRenda and Snafu, The hoppers were small and next week is their last meal til bru, so I didn't feel like I was stuffing them.

This morning when I walked into the snakeroom, I was greeted by "that smell". The smell of a dead animal. I didn't panic...I was thinking regurge (which is bad, but not an immediate emergency). I had my coffee and decided to check all the cages to track down where the smell was coming from. I got to Festivus and immediately saw the putrid mouse laying there. Then I got a look at my boy. His mouth was crooked, like when they realign their jaws, and his head was to the side. His whole throat was swollen and I saw metal DOWN HIS THROAT. It appeared to be Y shaped and the points were stretching and distorting the skin of his throat, with the points piercing through to the outside. It was AWFUL. I ran to the phone and called my vet and they had me bring him right down.

I had to leave him there so I went home and checked the other snakes I had fed yesterday. All seemed just fine and Lugosi gave me a nice tail rattle for disturbing him. I called my supplier, a guy I had been dealing with for 13 years. He is going to alert his suppliers, because he gets the mice frozen from a few places.

I use newspaper bedding and clean his cage all the time. Somehow, the metal wire was inside the mouse! My boy had surgery, the vet had to make 3 incisions and the metal had to be cut into pieces to get it out of him. I just picked him up. His whole head and neck are swollen, and he is carrying the front half of himself off the ground, it must hurt so bad! He is on endroflaxin twice a day, and the syringe has to be put behind the incisions, so the antibiotic doesn't leak out. The wire was old and really rusty and I am really afraid of infection.

He has a followup appt on Friday....I'm really scared I might lose him.
Tonight is feeding night for the majority of the corns.....I am running a powerful magnet over the mice and examining them closely before feeding.

Festivus is a sulphur that I got from Rob and Louise last February. I don't know what I'll do if I lose him....

[Nanci]

OMG, Beth!!!!!!!!! I can't believe it. Poor little Festivus! Please provide daily updates. I will pray for the little guy. At least he made it out of surgery and has a chance!

[The_Thunderer]

D***!!!! I'm so sorry for what happened! I'm glad that you got him to the vet. Please let us know how Festivus does and keep us up to date.

Now we have to "fear" what we feed them????

[tom e]

OMG, that's so bizarre! I'm sorry to hear that.. I wonder if it was something the mouse ingested? Or is it way to big for that?

[measley]

wow! I'm so sorry to hear what happened! I am glad to hear that he made it out of surgery and I will hope for the best. my thoughts are with you.

[starsevol]

OMG, that's so bizarre! I'm sorry to hear that.. I wonder if it was something the mouse ingested? Or is it way to big for that?

It was about 1/4" or 1/3" before it was cut up. I didn't see it when I thawed the mice, but I wasn't LOOKING for it either...it was like cheescloth, I think it's called. Like part of an old rusty mousecage.

Thank you Nanci, and everyone else for your well wishes. I really appreciate it, guys. I know you'll send some good Karma to my little one....

[highcolorcorns]

That's terrible..not to put down who you get feeders from, but I'd like to personally know. Chances are I don't get mice from him, but I'd lke to be sure, expecially if he gets from another palce also. If you don't want to post his name/company just PM me. I just want to make sure, that's all. I hope he makes it through ok.

[Nanci]

Where on Festivus are the incisions? Do you have to tube the antibiotics, or give him shots? Although I still feel like vomiting and crying, I feel a little better knowing the length of the wire. I had imagined inches long chicken wire.

[Caryl]

Oh Beth, I'm so sorry! I'm typing this with my mouth still hanging open in disbelief! You and Festivus are in my prayers. I'm glad your vet was able to remove it, and I hope he recovers fully and soon.

[starsevol]

My supplier is a local guy who lives down the road from my business. I have been dealing with him for 13 years, and his mice have always been top notch. He sells live rodents to pet shops in the area, and buys his frozen feeders from a few places. I know he gets alot of his mice from New York.

Nanci, the incisions are on 3 places on his neck. I have to put a syringe down his throat, past the incisions, to give him the antobiotics. I have the wire in a little baggie, the bits look like very very long rose thorns, kind of like spikes.

[tom e]

Sounds like hardware cloth maybe? I used to make cages for my dragons and chameleons out of it..

[starsevol]

Tom, I think that's it....

[highcolorcorns]

OMG that's terrible...I really hope he makes it through. Thanks for the info..it's feeding day so you had me kinda worried. I feel much better now, but if you think about it, it could actually happen anywhere. Freak accident. I wish both of you the best.

[Jenstar]

I'm really sorry you have to go through this... I hope the best for Festivus, please let us know how he is doing... It's just amazing something like this could happen... Now I'm worried as well about feeding my snakes... And I thought frozen was safer... You and Festivus are in my prayers...

[*salAMANDA88*]

I am so sorry to hear about your snake...makes me sad..:crying:
I hope he gets better..I hate to see animals suffer, because you never really know how much pain they are in...
but I am freaked out now and will be looking over my snakes mice before the feed....I think there is only herp. vet in Maine..and I don't know really where it is...:awcrap:

[*salAMANDA88*]

* ONE Herp. Vet...

[Tula_Montage]

What a horrific story! I am so glad he is ok, but what an awful experience.

[ziggybond_007]

I'm so sorry! I hope he gets better... Since you got him to the vet as soon as you found him, I'm sure he's got an excellent chance.

[LBoz]

Oh Beth, what a horrible experience for you and festivus. Did the vet say there might be long term damage? Thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery for him.

I'm sure your supplier is feeling awful right now as well. Hopefully his breeders will be checking their stock closely before sending them out to him.

(((((Beth)))))

[Pasodama]

Wow, Beth,... I am so sorry to hear about what happened to Festivus!

If the mouse was the wire carrier, it would seem (to me) that the wire must have been on the outside of the mouse ... especially to affect Festivus' mouth/throat.:shrugs: I don't know but ... it is, certainly, not something that someone would expect to be there &/or would be looking for.

This is such a freak accident, and is a bit of a shock, so that I just keep thinking ... Wow.
I know how difficult this must be, for you, and my heart goes out to you.
I really pray that Festivus remains on the mend and gets well soon!

[Rich in KY]

How disturbing!

I am wishing you and Festivus the best, Beth!

[diamondlil]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery for Festivus

[Nanci]

How's the little guy this morning?

[strawberry_bunny]

OMG I hope he gets well soon, poor little mite. At least he has a wonderful mummy to take care of him

[Cornflake1]

Just read what happened!!! Poor fella!! How is he today?? I still can't believe it, he's just so lucky you got home when you did and got him to the vets.... keep us all posted on his recovery!!

[starsevol]

Thank you all for the well wishes. He looks alot better this morning. The swelling is down and he's not holding his head up and at an angle like he was. I think that means he's more comfortable. He also fought alot harder at meds time this morning. The vet said he can eat a pink in 2-3 days, but I want to wait til after his appt on Friday. I hope this doesn't turn him off of food.

I don't know how I missed seeing it, it was big. It must have been stuck into the mouses body. I reached into the hopper bag, counted out what I needed, and tossed them in the plastic bowl to thaw. Nothing stuck my hand...maybe the sharp edges stuck into another mouse too ...I don't know. Then I thawed them, and you would think the hardware cloth would have fallen off....it must have been stuck IN the mouse. I didn't see it, but then who looks for that??

I hope I didn't sound like a drama queen yesterday. I didn't take a pic of it because at the time the focus was getting him to the vet as fast as possible. Plus, I think I was in shock. It was REALLY bad, like nothing you would expect. I will try to get a pic of him sometime today. The wire itself had to be cut into pieces for removal by the vet and are in a plastic bag on my desk at work. I want to show it to my supplier next time he comes in.

[measley]

I'm glad to hear that he's doing better today. thanks for the update, he and you are still in my thoughts and i'll hope for a quick recovery.

[Roy Munson]

I've been busy, so I haven't read many threads here lately. Deb told me about Festivus' situation when I talked to her last night.

That's one of the strangest things I've ever heard about, Beth. I'm glad he's doing better this morning. I hope he makes a full recovery-- I know how much he means to you. But if there's anyone who can nurse him back to 100%, it's you...

[tom e]

Most likely it happened to the mouse AFTER it was gassed.. I can't imagine that they wouldn't notice something wrong with the mouse if it was jabbed with a big piece of hardware cloth while living.. You probably didn't see it cause it was under the fur or something. That's still pretty darn crazy. If they are using some piece of caging that's falling apart (even if it is just the kill/gas cage) they need to be told to replace it..

Does your friend know which breeder he got it from yet? (mouse breeder..)

Glad to hear he's looking better! For all the scariness this is probably a pretty small thing for the snake (once it's out anyway!!)

[Lyreiania]

Hello Beth...
Im sending my best wishes for your Festivus. I hope he heals and all is OK. It certainly sounds as though he has a wonderful snake mom. It does seem like a freak accident, and Im glad you reported it to your suppliers.
Sincerely,
Susan

[Nanci]

I hope I didn't sound like a drama queen yesterday.

Are you joking? At least you were coherant enough to tell us about it!

I am so happy to hear he is doing well.

I got this call once, and it was my daughter, and she was out of her mind hysterical, crying so hard it sounded like she was going to die, or someone already had. I got fragments of what she was trying to tell me, which was "they think they are going to have to amputate his leg!!!!!" and more hysterical sobbing. I was scared out of my mind- did she mean my grandson? Her husband? What sort of horrible accident had they been involved in??? Luckily, it was her bird, Precious Roy, but to her, I think he was the dearest of the three! It was a relief for me to hear it was not human. And I wouldn't have called her a drama queen...

I think I'd avoid the pink, too. If it's true what Sean Niland (VMS) says, they can associate feeding with stressful events in their lives, and go off feeding, then it sure wouldn't hurt to let his life calm down first. He's not a bitty hatchling with no spare reserves. Although it's comforting to us moms to get a good meal in our babies' stomachs.

All right- I'll be anxiously awaiting the next update! Give him a little kiss for me!

[starsevol]

I managed to get a few shots of him, in his cage. They aren't very good. Since the swelling has gone down and he looks so much better than yesterday, it doesn't look like much. But you should be able to see 1 of the 3 incisions, anyway.

[Nanci]

Poor baby! It looks swollen to me; I can't imagine how bad it was previously! He looks good, Beth. Not much left of his grey head! What a beauty. I feel a lot better, having seen him.

[alan]

What a crazy thing to have happen! Good thing he belonged to someone who could deal with his situation and care for him afterward.
It's nice to know, and see evidence, that a snake can be repaired. I was present at the cleaning and stitching of a an abcess on the "chin" of a large python. I was very impressed with the vet's ability to work on a thrashing snake.

[Rich in KY]

I am so glad he is doing well.

Thanks for the pic updates!

[ghosthousecorns]

Ack! I saw theis thread yesterday and it just sounded so awful I did not know how to respond.
How the heck did the mouse have wire in it? I am having horrible thoughts that maybe it was kept in conditions where the wire became embedded in it like an embedded collar on a neglected pet. How awful, I'm kinda feeling sorry for that mouse if that's what happened almost as much as for the snake.
I'm glad from looking at the pictures that, though it looks swollen, Festivus has pulled through the operation and I am praying he will be OK.

[Pasodama]

Really good to hear that Festivus is doing better today.
Do keep us posted.

[ziggybond_007]

I'm so glad he's doing better!

[jenneses]

I hope Festivus gets well soon. What a horrible thing to experience.

[Jenstar]

Festivus is a really pretty boy, I am glad he is doing better... :)

[Jadie.Glitch]

Poor thing!!! Sorry this happened to the poor little guy! Sending prayers your way ~_~.

[Caryl]

Beth, I'm so glad he's improving! He's so fortunate to have you to care for him, and to have had a vet who knew his/her business with snake!

[El Jefe]

This is an odd thing...never heard of it! Hope he does okay.

[Nanci]

How's he doing this morning, Beth? I hope his swelling has gone down a lot more!

[starsevol]

He still looks about the same, and is still acting like normal. I just hope he eats on Friday! He was on hoppers but I'm thinking of trying a pink so his throat won't have to stretch very much...

[Caryl]

That sounds like a good idea. Not stretching a healing incision is bound to be a lot better than stretching it. Too much pain might put him off feeding in the future.

[Nanci]

I think I'd be treating him with kid gloves for a year! It sure wouldn't hurt to feed multiple tiny things until you're positive he's completely healed.

But with people, when they've have GI surgery, it's routine to test the next day for a leak, and if there isn't one, they start eating. Even a big surgery like gastric bypass or when part of the esophagus is removed and the stomach pulled up to reconnect- they are eating for sure within a week.

[RobbiesCornField]

Wow... I'm gonna go get a metal detector and wave it over all my mice... That's just scary!

[mike17l]

He still looks about the same, and is still acting like normal. I just hope he eats on Friday! He was on hoppers but I'm thinking of trying a pink so his throat won't have to stretch very much...

Sucks, I cant even imagine how this happened. How a piece of wire/hardware cloth even got on or in a mouse and then lodged in a snake. That's crazy. I hope he does get better, he looks like a pretty cool snake. I would also go ahead and give him another week off of eating. Then give him something pretty small.
Just my $0.02

[starsevol]

On Saturday the vet who did the surgery on him said he should be able to eat in 2-3 days, but I'm still waiting til Friday.
I have a huge magnet I'm keeping in the bathroom now, and I plan on passing it over every mouse from now on....

Nanci, the info about people eating so soon after surgery is very encouraging! I just hope he's not afraid of his food from now on.....he was an eating machine until this happened!

[jpccusa]

I have a huge magnet I'm keeping in the bathroom now, and I plan on passing it over every mouse from now on....

I don't want to sound discouraging, but I was thinking of all the other things mice could eat besides pieces of metal.
Couldn't a piece of hard plastic have done the same to poor Festivus esophagus? :awcrap:

[Nanci]

I would think he won't associate what happened with feeding- I hope- because he probably doesn't remember, and maybe the anaesthesia helped with that!-but if his next meal is painful, he might then associate feeding with pain. So it's good that you are starting out tiny, and like Mike says, if anything looks even slightly off or not quite healed, I'd hold off another week and reassess. He's in such good condition he can spare a week or two.

[starsevol]

I don't want to sound discouraging, but I was thinking of all the other things mice could eat besides pieces of metal.
Couldn't a piece of hard plastic have done the same to poor Festivus esophagus? :awcrap:

This was a piece of hardware cloth, a piece of the cage. And it was way too big for it to have been eaten by the mouse. The mouse was a hopper, fully furred but tiny, and the metal was 1/3" wide. It was stuck in the mouse. most possibly buried in the mouses body. I don't think plastic would have pierced his throat like this did, it looks like long thorns or spikes and is rusty. I didn't see it, but who LOOKS for something like that?
I will from now on, though...

[Susielea]

Oh Beth, I only just saw this, I've been away, but I can't imagine how scary this must have been :eek:

I'm so glad to see that you managed to get the little guy sorted at the vets and I truly wish him a speedy and full recovery!

(((hugs))) to you too, I thought you might need them ;)

Best wishes,

[JoannaD]

I can not even imagine what it was like to see him like that! You are lucky to have someone that could help out. I hope he makes a speedy recovery.

[Weebonilass]

I'm so glad to hear that he is holding his own. He looks much better in his pictures than my imagination was flying off to. I'm glad of that!

[ciara]

Glad to hear he's doing better! *hugs* What a terrifying thing to have happen.

[Nanci]

How's he doing this morning, Beth?? I guess it's hard to check on him in the morning- he's probably sleeping. But still!

[starsevol]

Thank you so much everyone!
You guys are so supportive and wonderful.
I appreciate it so much......

Nanci, the swelling looks to be almost down this morning.
He fought at meds time, he seems to have plenty of strength, at least.
All day Sunday I kept expecting to find him belly-up....

The incisions in his neck have turned black, not in a bad way though.
They look like they are scabbing over and starting to heal.

But I won't breathe easily until he takes a pinky on Friday.....

[Roy Munson]

*Fingers still crossed...*

[Nanci]

I'm so happy to hear that! Does he have to get his stitches removed, or do they dissolve?

[starsevol]

I don't actually SEE any stitches...so I think they will dissolve.
He does have a follow-up appointment at 12:15 on Friday.
Then I will give him a pinky Friday night....

On Saturday I will either be a very happy person....or a basketcase again!

[Caryl]

Surely if he's doing this well, he'll keep improving. Best of luck - all possible body parts to cross are crossed for you both!

[JustineNYC]

I don't actually SEE any stitches...so I think they will dissolve.
He does have a follow-up appointment at 12:15 on Friday.
Then I will give him a pinky Friday night....

On Saturday I will either be a very happy person....or a basketcase again!

Im late to this, I just wanted to add I hope your little one makes a full recovery. Please dont blame yourself about the wire....who the hell wouldve noticed something so odd. Thank god you got him right to a vet! I wouldve passed out.

[measley]

I've been following the progress, and I just wanted to tell you how glad I am to hear that he's doing better and better by the day. My thoughts are still with you and I hope that I only read good news on Friday.

He's very lucky to have you taking care of him.

-McKenna

[Rich in KY]

It is good to hear that he is improving!

[Nanci]

Anxiously awaiting vet report...

[jpccusa]

Anxiously awaiting vet report...

Same here!

[starsevol]

I just got back from the vet....
She looked at him and said he is looking alot better.
I asked her how much longer he needs to be on the antibiotics, and she said that she likes to see these guys on it for 3 weeks, especially since the wire was so old and rusty.
Then she asked me if I had fed him this week, and I said no. She said I should because "needs food to heal".
I said that I was afraid of the possibility of a regurge, and she said that he "could" regurge, and still be ok, but it was important to see if he could eat.
I asked her if the incisions in his neck would cause scar tissue that would prevent his throat from stretching to engulf prey. She said that parts of his throat may be affected, but he could always eat multiple smaller food items if that was the case.

So...driving home I got the bright idea to feed him a pink when we got back, and skip his meds until tomorrow night. When my hand got infected this spring (and it was BADLY infected) antibiotics took care of it fast. So I reasoned that missing a few doses should be ok, as long as he's digesting....
So I thawed a pink.
I left him in his kritter keeper travel cage, and took out the paper towel so it wouldn't stick to the pink. At one point he was nose to nose with the pink....but he didn't eat. My boy who has NEVER refused a meal.....I left the pink in with him and went to work. I'm terrified, even though the vet said not to worry if he doesn't eat. Just try him again in a few days. But until he eats, I don't know if he's going to make it. I'm in knots right now. I'm praying the pink is gone when I get home tonight....

I'm sick to my stomach that he suffered this at all.
I so much wish I could go back in time to when he was ok.....
He's a GOOD sweet boy, and he never deserved this.

He was also the foundation for 2 projects I was starting, plus the only male I have that is compatible with Carmen, my caramel motley.
I can't afford to replace him if I lose him....(as if that's even possible...)

[jpccusa]

I'm so very sorry for your afflictions. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you to find Festivus with a big full stomach when you get home.
(((Beth)))

[Nanci]

It's probably been a stressful day for him. He'll eat. And you can always make the pink irresistable to him- we have ways!!!

[starsevol]

There is time...I know...
He has good weight...
And we DO have ways...

It's just that it feels right now that nothing will ever be ok again, until he does.

[cornsnakeboy12]

that is sad im very sorry is he moving around lot?

[starsevol]

Yes, he is moving and acting normally.

[starsevol]

Well, Rick went out today and installed insullation for his parents. He had to go home and take a shower and he checked Festivus. He didn't eat :(
I am trying not to panic, but I don't really know what to do next. I mean, I'll try him again in 5 days or a week....

I'm so afaid I'm losing him....he was such a great eater...
I'm heartbroken...

[Jenstar]

He's probably still a little stressed out about what has happened to him... Once he calms down he'll eat for you... :)

[Nanci]

Relax! You could heat up his mouse again to really hot, slit the head, and try him again! He'll eat. He's just had a busy day.

[starsevol]

You guys are so great, thanks so MUCH!
I'm panicing myself into a total stomachache....
and your reassurance is just wonderful.

I definately need to listen to you right now and not the voices in my head....

[Nanci]

Beth, he had to be so strong to survive the surgery! He's a strong snake! He's not going to just give up and not eat.

[starsevol]

But if his throat hurts....

I know I hate eating when MY throat hurts, and I like food way too much....

He was eating every 5 days but he hasn't eaten now since the 5th...

[The_Thunderer]

Know that you and Festivus are in my heart and thoughts. You've done a great job and will continue to do so. I know everything will be fine!

[Nanci]

But if his throat hurts....

I know I hate eating when MY throat hurts, and I like food way too much....

He was eating every 5 days but he hasn't eaten now since the 5th...

It's nearly healed! If his throat hurts a little now, and he doesn't eat, it will be twice as healed in a week! He will not starve. And it's barely dusk! Not eating time, anyway.

[Rich in KY]

Beth, Festivus is a healthy looking boy. It has not been that long since he last ate.

I think once he has healed, he appetite will return.

[starsevol]

All I can do is go home and settle him back into his cage. But since he didn't eat, he's getting his meds tonight....

Funny how when something like this happens, all my sense goes out the window. I'm like a newbie, afraid everything I do is wrong....

[Jadie.Glitch]

I totally understand... I know he'll make a great recovery ^_^. Just give him some time. Besides, they can go a LONG time without eating. Skipping a couple of feedings isn't going to hurt the big guy.

Oh and I'm glad you are giving him his meds. It's very important with antibiotics that you neither MISS a dose or QUIT TAKING them altogether. They work by slowly killing any infection and if you stop too soon then the infection just rebounds and gets stronger which would NOT be good... I know he has no infection now, but it's always something to look out for...

*hugs for you and Festivus*

He'll be his old self again soon, I'm sure of it ^_^.

[The_Thunderer]

Jadie's right... antibiotics work only if you keep a certain level in the system. When that level goes down, the bacteria have a chance to "regroup" and it is like starting all over again... sometimes with more resistant bacteria present as well. My PCP told me that when I had a staph infection.

[starsevol]

Thanks guys :)
Maybe I won't try to feed him again for the next 2 weeks (til the antibiotics are gone) or if I do, maybe snal a pinky in half so it's easier for him to digest....if he does eat....

I'm still fairly terrified, no sleep last night.
Aw well, at least HE seems comfortable!

[torsten]

i hope he gets better soon and continues eating enthusiastically as he did before, my thoughts are with you.

[Jadie.Glitch]

Is there a reason you don't want to do antibiotics AND a feed? Are you worried about a regurge? Or is it because you don't want to upset his stomach by wrestling him around to feed him the antibiotics while he's trying to digest?

[starsevol]

Yes, regurge is what I'm worrird about.
It would totally (insert expletive here) to have him finally take food only to regurge.....

[Jadie.Glitch]

Yeah, that would be pretty awful... I would probably wait a bit too.

[jenneses]

Maybe you should supplement his water with nutri-bac. Antibiotics can kill good bacteria which might increase the risk of a regurge. Not sure if this has been mentioned before or not.

[starsevol]

I had not heard of that, but right now his gut is completely empty...

[Nanci]

I think right now the antibiotics would cancel out the Nutribac, but that's a great suggestion for when the antibiotics are finished! I always give Isabel (dragon) probiotics after her coccidiosis treatments. (Acidophiliz).

Really, there isn't any reason why he should regurge, since the initial regurge was caused by the foreign object. Except if you're trying to medicate him and handling him. What did the vet say about that?

When Addy (snake) had to get a shot every other day for three weeks, I just didn't feed her.

[Nanci]

Beth, since he's going to be so accustomed to being tubed anyway, (and now that you're the snake tubing expert!) if you felt like it, you could just pop a dose of Nutribac right into his stomach after the last antibiotic dose. If you and the vet think that's a good idea. I love Nutribac- I'm like a Nutribac pusher.

[starsevol]

The vet didn't seem to think a regurge was very serious!
He is getting harder and harder to medicate.
He squirms and it's REALLY hard to get the syringe in his mouth.
It takes both of us and its always a huge struggle.

[Nanci]

You aren't using a little feeding tube??

[starsevol]

I don't have one, just a needleless syringe...
We need to put it down past the incisions.
It's small enough for his throat, what's awful (and stressful) is getting his mouth open.

[Nanci]

Well if you want me to send you one like the one I used on Noah, I'd be happy to. You don't have to open the mouth at all, just weasel it into the corner of the mouth. That's how my vet does all oral meds on snakes.

[starsevol]

You would do that?
That would cause all 3 of us alot less stress!!!!!!!

[Nanci]

PM me and I'll send it out tomorrow!

[starsevol]

You are an angel!
Thank you!!

[Caryl]

I didn't have a chance to check yesterday evening, but I was thinking of you both. It's hard when those we care for don't feel well, and I know you wanted him to eat right away. I think Rich is right - he's still feeling less than 100% and didn't have his appetite back yet. I know that, after major surgery, I went days without food and didn't miss it. Snakes have a much lower metabolic rate than we do, so he probably just has no appetite.

Keep up the meds, and keep the faith. He'll eat when he's ready. Hugs!

[EvilAngel]

I am pretty new to this forum, but I feel horrible nonetheless and am horrified from your story! I can only imagine what that must have felt like. Best wishes to you and Festivus having a speedy recovery!!!!

[Nanci]

Actually, I couldn't sent the stuff out on a Sunday, so it went today and you will have it tomorrow. I use the 5fr tube, but I sent a 6.5 (a teeny bit bigger) in case that looked better to you. If you look at my Woe Is Noah thread, you can see how I hold the head. I don't worry so much about what the body is doing, but if you have assistance, it's nice to hold him in a straight line. Like head up, tail down. I only put it down the esophagus, not all the way to the stomach, so like 1/4 to 1/3 of his length, and then inject a little slowly so it doesn't reflux back up. But quickly enough to not stress him by the time it takes. Noah wasn't distressed at all, really, since there was no prying his mouth open. Once the tube is in the corner of the mouth, he will probably open his mouth a little bit, at which point you can see the trachea way in the front and the tube disappearing to the back, far from the trachea. To give an exact dose, after you have injected the liquid, you leave the tube in place, remove the syringe, draw up a little air, (couple ml) put the syringe back and flush with air to get the liquid remaining in the tube into the snake. I lubricate it with water- they are naturally slippery when wet.

[starsevol]

Thank you so much Nanci, I just know that will make it MUCH easier!
I owe you bigtime :)

[snakemom1961]

What a horrible thing to have happened to your poor snake. I hope he gets better very soon.
What an absolutly AWESOME thing Nanci has done for you. Can't get better friends then that!

[starsevol]

What a horrible thing to have happened to your poor snake. I hope he gets better very soon.
What an absolutly AWESOME thing Nanci has done for you. Can't get better friends then that!

I can't say enough nice things about her. She's wonderful :)

[v_various]

Oh wow I just read the whole thing. I'm so sorry this happened to you, I'm sending many well-wishes your way.

And Nanci, you're awesome!

[Caryl]

You and Festivus are still in my thoughts and prayers. Keep us posted! (And Nanci totally ROCKS!)

[ziggybond_007]

I hope the tubing goes well when you get your stuff!!! Nanci, you are amazing!

[Nanci]

You guys, it's not that big of a deal! I just mailed her a couple things, that's all! You're embarassing me!

[ArpeggioAngel]

Nanci does totally rock. We could start a thread with all the wonderful things she has done for people on this forum and it would go for pages and pages. She is an amazing, one of a kind person!!

[RobbiesCornField]

You guys, it's not that big of a deal! I just mailed her a couple things, that's all! You're embarassing me!

Oh, but it's so much more than that!!!

Three cheers for Nanci!

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[Susielea]

Oh, but it's so much more than that!!!

Three cheers for Nanci!

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

I second that, Hip Hip Hooray, Hip Hip Hooray, Hip Hip Hooray!!! :D :cheers:

[starsevol]

Nanci girl, I totally love you!
It did take a "learning curve" as far as hubby drawing back the syringe before disconnecting it, and I'm a little scared about THAT, but overall it went well with very little drama on anyone's part. I'm quite confident that I can do it myself now, and Festy sure seemed to appreciate how easy it went!

There does seem to be a perminant bend in his neck that has me worried. No telling how much damage was done yet, as I haven't tried to feed him since he refused food on Friday.
I won't be completely happy until he voluntarily takes food, gets it down, and poops it out without a problem.....that might take weeks if it ever happens at all.
But when there is something new to report, it will be posted here.

Thank you everyone, but especially Nanci, for everything...
The people here are the best...

[Nanci]

I'm so happy it went well! I think it's too early to say he has a permanent bend. He has so much growing to do still!! See- isn't that way easier??

[starsevol]

MUCH easier!!
He hardly wiggled :)
Girl, I OWE you!!

But, I just hope that drawing the syringe up didn't hurt him.....I'm scared all over again! (my constant state since it happened...)

[wade]

Beth, I've missed this thread for a few days. I'm thinking about you. Hang in there.

[Nanci]

But, I just hope that drawing the syringe up didn't hurt him.....I'm scared all over again! (my constant state since it happened...)

Not to worry. I suck stuff out of people with those all the time- out of the esophagus (like x-ray dye that won't go down, so we suck it back out) out of the bladder, out of the stomach...Perfectly safe. The worst you could have done is sucked out your medication and had to reinject it.

[starsevol]

Thanx Wade :)

And Nanci, I am so relieved....I have been afraid all day that I would find him dead when I get home tonight...

[Pasodama]

Glad that the tubing went well.:)

[starsevol]

Thank you. Deb :)

[Nanci]

Here's some reassurance for you, Beth. I just did a study where we put a tube larger than Festie's tube (8fr) down into a baby's stomach, drew it slowly back up the esophagus while injecting barium, then back into the stomach. My student was asked to withdraw the barium by syringing it out. The pediatric radiologist of 30+ years told him "Don't worry, you're not going to do a mucosal (stomach lining) biopsy- it's not possible."

[starsevol]

My goodness, I just saw this!! Where have I been?
Thank you Nanci SO MUCH!!
You are so reassuring....

He's acting normally, but still has a big wound on the side of his neck and is oddly shaped where his head and neck meet. I will try to get another picture up within the next few days.
If he's too damaged to eat after all this....well, I guess we cross THAT particular bridge when we come to it!

[Rich in KY]

Beth there are so many people wishing the best for you and Festivus.

I know we have a thread singing her praises, but Nanci is just amazing!

[starsevol]

I know Rich, just another reason this place is my home...I love the people here.
And don't get me started on Nanci.....she is the MOST amazing, thoughtful, considerate, wonderful, helpful, generous, giving, incredible....well, I think you get the idea!

[Nanci]

So how's Festivus doing??

[Caryl]

I've been offline for the weekend. I'm glad to hear that the tubing went well. It's got to be so much less stressful, and I know that will help Festivus heal. Keep us posted!

[starsevol]

Very small update

He's blue now and should be shedding soon.
I hope it helps him feel better.
He's still on the antibiotics, the vet said to keep him on them for about 3 weeks, but Thursday is day 19 and I'm thinking of stopping it then. No sign of infection but the side where the biggest incision is looks kind of squished and flattened, and there is a bulge on the top of his neck. This scares me, but was there when he went for his recheck and the vet didn't seem to think it's a problem.
I offered him food Saturday night, a thawed tiny pink, but again he ignored it.
I'm hoping that after he sheds and is off the antibiotics he will feel like eating.
After he gets dosed he very very very restless and agitated....I hope dosing doesn't hurt him.
Also, I had not seen his tongue since the accident. But yesterday I noticed the tip of his tongue outside his mouth. Not flicking, just hanging out there. If his tongue is injured I don't know if he can eat.....
He's also hanging out in the front of his cage now, instead of hiding. Before this happened he hung out at the front of his cage all the time, that at least makes me feel better anyway...

It sounds heartless to say this, but finding him dead would have been easier. I would have cried for weeks..., with the way this happened I know he suffered terribly and it's still not clear if he will make it.
Seeing my beautiful always-hungry boy like this is killing me.....

[Caryl]

*Hugs* Beth. I know exactly what you mean - it doesn't sound heartless. It's hard to see something you love miserable, and you be unable to make it better NOW.

Keep thinking hopeful thoughts. If he's going blue, maybe that's why he refused the last offering. If he's hanging out where he used to, maybe that is a sign that he is feeling better. It takes time to heal; having been through major surgeries myself, I know that firsthand. I've read that snakes have a metabolic rate about 20% of ours, so that means it will take much longer for Festivus to feel better than it would for a human in the same situation.

We're all pulling for him - and for you. Love and prayers are coming your way.

[Nanci]

I don't think his tongue has anything to do with eating. He swallows by walking his jaws up the mouse.

I bet he refused because he was blue. Lila just did that to me- I thought she was blue because she stayed in hiding, but she never shed, so then I thought I was wrong, so I took her out yesterday and she wasn't blue, so I tried to feed her, and even teased her, and she'd follow the mouse around but wouldn't strike. Fine- don't eat then. This morning I found a shed.

[starsevol]

The thing that scares me is that he's never refused in blue before.
Not one refusal since I got him in February.

What I meant about the tongue, is that they use their tongues to "smell"...so if he can't smell dinner, is he less apt to eat?

[SnakesRule1234]

Well, I remember reading a thread about a snake's tongue that got infected and fell off, and the snake was fine, and still ate and lived.

I hope Festivus is going to get better... sorry you have to go through all this.

[starsevol]

Thank you Paulina, that helps :)

[Nanci]

And I know plenty of pigeons whose tongues and even lower beaks have fallen off due to canker, that are still fine and eating! Animals adapt, and they don't feel sorry for themselves.

[starsevol]

And you knows your pigeons!!! ((HUGS))

I'm trying so hard to stay cheerful, but since this all happened, the grey ratio on my head is growing!

[strawberry_bunny]

I'm sure he will eat for you soon! I know of a burm that lives 10mins from me that lost the end of his tounge and it grew back. Give him a big hug for me, and have one for yourself too *HUG*

[Susielea]

Hey, come on Beth, you and Festivus have come this far, the fact that he's hanging out where he used to would seem like a good sign to me too :)

Keep your chin up, I'm sending lots of healing vibes your way for Festivus and a couple of special hugs for you (((Beth))) (((Beth))) ;)

[starsevol]

You guys are AMAZING! Your words do alot to quell the sick feeling in my stomach when I think of my poor guy...
Thanks so much!!

[tom e]

Well just remember it's only been about two weeks.. You're just now getting to the time that you'd be feeding him if it had JUST been a regurge.. So even though he's making you nervous by refusing, he's not been off food long.
I would definitely keep the antibiotics going. The worry is still the injury right? I'm sure he'll eat for you once he feels better.

[Pasodama]

It is good to hear that Festivus is starting to do more of what was his regular practice prior to his accident.

It is, also, good that you have been able to see his tongue.
However, without a tongue, snakes can still eat. Only problem, without a tongue, is that they can't smell, for aroma particles, in the air but ... they can smell through their nose. So, could smell a prey item that is close.
Plus, the mechanics, of eating, do not require the tongue.
As for his not eating regardless, hopefully it is not that he has been put off eating mice, due to his experience, but ... other reasons, for not eating, could be that he still has a wee bit o' pain ... &/or I know that, any time after I have had surgery, my appetite went waaaaay down for awhile (so it could be that Festivus is experiencing that same thing). Course, his impending shed could have something to do with his lack of appetite (at this time) too.

Just give him time. Snakes can go a long time without food and, as long as his body condition remains pretty good, he is not in any immediate danger of starvation, etc.
I would keep with the recommended time, for his antibiotics, too.
Meanwhile ... My best thoughts, & wishes, remain with you & Festivus.

[crackerhead]

Hey Beth,
Festivus better appreciate all the worrying you're doing!;) Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. A shed after an injury is a good thing. It means his body is healing or trying to. I have a Fox snake that had been severely burned before I "stole" her from the pet store she was languishing in. To look at her, even now, you wouldn't think any animal could survive such damage. And yet she is a sweet, docile healthy creature. Remember reptiles are slow healers. That whole "cold blooded" thing is a great evolutionary niche but it has it's drawbacks. You're doing a great job. Take a deep breath and relax, he's going come out of this with flying colors. I have faith, in you as a caregiver and him as a patient.:)
Terri

[Jadie.Glitch]

Yes, definitely keep the antibiotics going. I know it's frustrating and you're probably sick and tired of it but it's for the best.

My horse was badly injured on his hoof (a GIANT cut almost all the way around) and his wrap needed to be changed every day and new sav had to be applied and antibiotics had to be given. He did NOT like this. When the treatments were almost up I got lazy an skipped a couple of doses here and there. He got an infection and it was like STRAIGHT back to square one again, only worse. That was the most frustrating time. Ever.

I highly recommend doing exactly as the vet recommended and staying with it. You'll thank yourself later when he's all back to normal ^_^. *hugs*!

[starsevol]

The tubing makes giving meds alot easier. The vet said to keep him on the meds "about 3 weeks"...so as much as both Festy and I hate it, he's on meds until Friday morning, which is exactly 20 days after his injury. Halloween night and Saturday morning it would be impossible to medicate him at the exact time (I do it 9:30 am and pm so the levels in his blood are constant).

Things won't be completely ok til he eats, but it's getting better everyday. And I am listening and absorbing any and all suggestions and am grateful for them.

Thank you SO VERY MUCH for your love, support and good vibes showered on my boy and me. We appreciate it immensely.

[soulslayer86]

thats messed up i hope your snake does good

[strawberry_bunny]

I would feel exactly the same as you do now, your little man has the best mummy in the world looking after him, he should be greatful that you worry so much. Worrying means you care! Just remember to take care of yourself as well or you will end up ill to. Then you will stress more and it will be a be an endless circle. *massive hugs*

[Nanci]

I didn't know you had to medicate him twice a day!!! You are going to be an expert...

[starsevol]

Update:

He hasn't shed yet. He looks awful and has no energy at all.
No muscle tone.
His belly is caved in.
If he makes it through the shed I will offer him a pinky, maybe cut in half....

[Jenstar]

I'm sorry to hear that... I hope he starts feeling better and eats...

[Roy Munson]

Update:

He hasn't shed yet. He looks awful and has no energy at all.
No muscle tone.
His belly is caved in.
If he makes it through the shed I will offer him a pinky, maybe cut in half....

That's not the update I was hoping for. :(

I've noticed that sometimes when they're in shed, corns will seem to have reduced muscle tone. Hopefully that's what's going on.

I really hope he makes it.

[Jadie.Glitch]

Hang in there. Sometimes these things take time. Like Roy said, I'm sure he's just getting ready to shed. I'll be praying for you both.

[starsevol]

He last ate 26 days ago.
His body feels limp when I pick him up, then he starts to move.

I'm scared....

I just hope he gets past this shed...

[Nanci]

Me too .

[alan]

We're pullin' for you, Festivus.
Chin up Beth, you're doing all you can.

[measley]

Awwww, I was hoping to open this and hear that he was back to normal...

I'm sorry you have to go through this... I'm pulling for you and festivus...

[Susielea]

We're rooting for Festivus too and hoping for some more positive news once he sheds!

I have a few corns that are quite limp and lethargic when they are in shed, (and others that are fiesty), I can pick them up in the middle and they just hang there, doubled up, for a moment or two, so I'm hoping that's what's going on with him.

Sending more healing thoughts your way! :)

[jenneses]

I am sending get well thoughts to Festivus. I am sorry to hear he's doing so poorly.

[Caryl]

I'm sorry you're still having to worry, Beth. I'd hoped he'd be looking definitively better. Like everyone else, I hope it's just the shed, and him reacting oddly to it since he's been injured and convalescing. *hugs* and prayers from me.

[diamondlil]

Rooting for him! (Could you not tube him something like critical care?)

[Rich in KY]

Poor Festivus. :(

Tell him that so many people are pulling for him.

[Tula_Montage]

Sending Blue fuzzy snuggle monsters to you and Purple healing creatures to Festie.

[Lestette]

I am very new to snakes, but I read over this entire thread teary eyed and my heart hurts for you. You've gone through such a long journey so far since the accident and I'm pulling for Festivus and hoping he will be alright. It makes me so sad that something like this could happen...
I really, truly hope that he will be alright and that he makes it through his shed ok and eats a nice pinky afterwards.
All the best of luck to you and my well wishes will be constantly sent your way. :)

[Drewby07]

I'm rooting for you both!

I heard it mentioned that maybe you could tube him some sort of nourishment? I was thinking maybe a tiny bit of wet cat food or something? I know it's not the ideal diet....or even CLOSE...but it's SOMETHING......anyone?

[Kokopelli]

Food is not an issue at this point, if anything, he is likely to either regurge or simply invest much needed calories and energy in digesting when it could have gone to his immune system.
I suggest keeping him in the warm spectrum for the next couple of weeks- it stimulates the immune system.

I am really sorry to hear about this mess, sure makes you think and consider one's feeding habits.

Best of luck!

[wade]

Beth, haven't heard anything for a few days. How we doing??

[vetusvates]

Rooting for him! (Could you not tube him something like critical care?)

I'm rooting for you both!
I heard it mentioned that maybe you could tube him some sort of nourishment? I was thinking maybe a tiny bit of wet cat food or something? I know it's not the ideal diet....or even CLOSE...but it's SOMETHING......anyone?
I haven't lost a snake to starvation or malnutrition in 30 years. IMO, before the poor creature succumbs, he would definitely be getting some nutrition of some kind. A formula that would provide the maximum herp-nutrients, requiring the least chemical breakdown to usable molecules.
In 1980, I had a very high-strung gravid female Western Pygmy Rattler, that I caught in May and kept all summer. Refused to eat. I saw to it that she did not starve or lack for any nutrients. (Lots of careful & ginger finger dexterity required.) Needless to say, I was able to release a healthy mother and five healthy August-born Western Pygmy Rattlers that September, 1980.
BUT, I would not recommend this to anyone who did not know what they were doing or were faint at heart. Even on a Corn Snake.
Where's Kathy Love? Oh Kathy...?

[vetusvates]

I strictly forbid anyone to try anything like my experience during the summer of 1980 with a cranky pit viper. That was just me sharing an experience. In no way do I advise that sort of thing with a poisonous snake.
Please don't interpret that post in any other way except this : me showing my passion and sympathy for Festivus and "starsevol", and the hope of her not having to lose her snake.

[Lyreiania]

I also am sending good positive energy for Festivus...what an awful thing to have happened. I am impressed and I honor you for the dedication and care you have shown in nursing him and caring for him during this time.

Sincerely,
Susan

[starsevol]

Hey everyone,

Well, after the way he looked on Saturday, I fully expected Sunday morning to find me with a dead snake. It didn't. His color isn't as cloudy, which means he should be shedding soon. He is more active, but moves jerkily and slowly. I hold him near his waterbowl twice a day, and he drinks for me.

Yesterday, I thawed a pinky for him. He was on hoppers but I think it's best to give him small food that won't stretch his throat. He didn't eat, but for a minute it looked as though he MIGHT.

Not sure what it all means....but time will tell!

[Nanci]

Well, that's good news! I bet he's so thirsty. I have plenty that won't eat when they are clear- I wouldn't worry.

[jpccusa]

Excellent news Beth.

I'm glad to hear he is feeling a little better. Keep him hydrated as you have been doing. He will eat for you soon, you'll see. ;)

[Drewby07]

I hope he sheds and snaps right back for ya!

[starsevol]

(((HUGS)))
You guys are wonderful......

[Lestette]

I sure hope he sheds for you soon! I'm glad to hear that he is feeling a little better!
*sends healing vibes your way*

[nicali84]

Happy to hear he's sounding better! Will keep everything crossed for you.x

[The_Thunderer]

I'm holdin' out for you both as well!!! My heart goes out to you both.

[wade]

Beth,
I understand and agree with the reasoning for feeding a small meal to start. Sometimes however, once they are onto eating mice with hair, they won't go back to mice without hair. I wonder if you could find a really small fuzzy.

[vetusvates]

Bethany,
I sure am glad to hear some good news. Sounds like he really wants to hang on. You are a great person and cornkeeper who has hung in there with patience, hope, and perseverance.

[starsevol]

Thanks guys :)

Wade, he hasn't shed yet, so I'm not taking his pinky refusal to heart. He was a vacuum cleaner before, ate anything offered. I do have small fuzzies left over though if it should come to that.
I'd even cut a fuzz in half if I had to (ewwwwwwwwwwww).

[measley]

That's positive news, Beth! I'm waiting with bated breath for him to shed.

Festivus is lucky to have a mommy like you!!

[Vinman]

good luck Beth. I wish you the best. if you have to tube him wate another week. there is a multi vitanmin with cal. in it I think it ios called vita cal, alot of bearded dragon breeders use it for sick dragons.

[Kokopelli]

Good luck but I really do implore you to reconsider the feeding attempts. The area is probably inflamed and should be left well enough alone- it can cause much more harm then good. The esophagus will be stretched from even the most minor of food items.
Once the infection that caused the swelling recedes- sure, but it's not like he will starve to death, not by a long shot.

[Nanci]

I don't think he ever had an infection. He was on antibiotics within hours of the injury. He was impaled by a foreign object and had major surgery! That caused the swelling.

[starsevol]

Yes, he was put on antibiotics immediately after the surgery, and was on them for 3 weeks. There is no infection.
The back of his neck is mishapen but it's not from infection.

I tried on Sunday but will probably wait now til after his shed.

[LBoz]

Good luck, Beth. Thanks for keeping us posted. I think the entire forum has cyber-adopted your lovely Festivus. Still keeping the toes crossed for you.

[starsevol]

Thank you, Lori.

This entire forum is so supportive and wonderful.
I wonder if my boy can feel all the healing vibes on some level....:)

[Jadie.Glitch]

Thank you, Lori.

This entire forum is so supportive and wonderful.
I wonder if my boy can feel all the healing vibes on some level....:)

Oh he definitely can ^_^.

And when he finally noms his first meal in so long you should snap us some pics of him eating so we can celebrate with you.

[starsevol]

I'll post the pic, and it will be like "Break out the vodka and Red Bull! Festy's eating!" :D

Right now I can't even imagine him eating...it seems like a long way away....

[Tula_Montage]

Its a long way to go, but think of how far you have come :)

[starsevol]

My non-snake-loving-husband just said that if Festy doesn't eat on his own, he's willing to help me tube feed him or do whatever it takes to pull him through....

I just hope he eats on his own, after he sheds.....

Sad little boy used to eat everything offered...breaks my heart that he won't now....

[Nanci]

Beth, give the little guy a break!!! He's blue! And he had surgery! He'll recover. He needs time.

After Noah regurged, he was blue. He was limp, and looked like he had a huge hollowed-out part in his belly, and his skin was hanging in folds. Then he shed, he ate, and he looked normal! And when Jasmine, the little kinked girl, is blue, she is so limp and dull I _swear_ I have thought she was dead.

I wonder is a nice soak would feel good to him, plus hydrate him if he needs it.

[starsevol]

Oh Nanci,
I wouldn't DREAM of doing anything like that for at least a month!!!
Or more!

And I would have to get advice from at least 5 or 10 people who have actually done it, on how to do it.....

Just struck me as funny, coming from the hubby is all!

[Nanci]

At first I thought you meant you wouldn't dream of soaking him...

[LBoz]

I'll post the pic, and it will be like "Break out the vodka and Red Bull! Festy's eating!" :D

Right now I can't even imagine him eating...it seems like a long way away....
Geez I must be uber hormonal right now. This post just made me all misty. ((((Festivus&Beth))))) What a bit sigh of relief it's going to be for US when he eats, I can only imagine how you're going to feel, Beth. We'll have a "HATS AND HORNS" party!!

[starsevol]

At first I thought you meant you wouldn't dream of soaking him...

LOL no no!!
I mean soaking good...
force feeding bad... :)

He did look better when I got home a few minutes ago. Still has that funky bend in his neck that scares me but seemed to be feeling ok....

[Msskellington]

My non-loving-husband just said that if Festy doesn't eat on his own, he's willing to help me tube feed him or do whatever it takes to pull him through....

I just hope he eats on his own, after he sheds.....

Sad little boy used to eat everything offered...breaks my heart that he won't now....

did anyone else notice this? lol.
just trying to lighten the mood..

I'm sure Festy will be alright beth.
When I first got my BRB she didn't eat for nearly 2 months....
she was just a baby and she pulled through...

good vibes too both of you....

[Nanci]

I read that as non-snake-loving...

[starsevol]

I fixed it :)
Gotta love the edit function

[wade]

Beth, it just occured to me, and Nanci is a nurse so she can back me up on this, after surgery you don't get anything to eat until you move your bowels. Believe me, I know, and it can take days.

[Nanci]

Actually, I'm an x-ray tech- DiamondLil is the nurse. From my end of the business, if you don't leak- you're good to go!

[starsevol]

Well, he had eaten 5 days before the accident, and pooped about 3 days before.....

But the antibiotics did cause a tiny amount of runny poo...maybe that counts?

[wade]

Oh no, that's not good enough. Get out your stethoscope. We're gonna need good bowel sounds and maybe pass a little gas. If thats the best you can do, you might get a cup of mouse broth.

[diamondlil]

Actually, I'm an x-ray tech- DiamondLil is the nurse. From my end of the business, if you don't leak- you're good to go!
As I'm a gastro nurse, I have to say I prefer non-leaking patients too! There wasn't any bowel surgery, it was the throat? I'd monitor weight and wait for the swelling to subside before offering food, personally

[Kokopelli]

The tissue is still inflamed, and is still sensitive as long as it is still swollen. Also, that tissue is highly susceptible to infection because of it's state(which is why Antibiotics was prescribed to begin with) and the immune system is working over-time.
I'm a certified Vet technician if that helps,

Snakes are perfectly capable of going through months without feeding, even colubrids- Corns included. I deprived food from my Ratsnake for 2 months past his surgery- and he didn't lose a lot of weight at all, if anything, this "time off" for his digestion system only helped it recover better.

That's my advice, do with it as you deem fit.

Good luck with the little fella,
Oren.

[starsevol]

Oh no, that's not good enough. Get out your stethoscope. We're gonna need good bowel sounds and maybe pass a little gas. If thats the best you can do, you might get a cup of mouse broth.

Funny thing Wade, after you posted that I was greeted by a nasty pile of urates when I opened Festy's cage!

I will try to get a pic or 2 of him this morning. He really is looking better....

[Msskellington]

great to hear that he's looking better!

[crackerhead]

Funny thing Wade, after you posted that I was greeted by a nasty pile of urates when I opened Festy's cage!

I will try to get a pic or 2 of him this morning. He really is looking better....

Beth, as you know I've been following this thread religiously but, if you succumb to posting poop pictures I'm unfriending you!;) Pics of the recuperating Festy are welcome though. Just limit yourself to his front end.:D
Terri

[starsevol]

Beth, as you know I've been following this thread religiously but, if you succumb to posting poop pictures I'm unfriending you!;) Pics of the recuperating Festy are welcome though. Just limit yourself to his front end.:D
Terri

LOL! I cleaned his tub immediately and put in fresh papers for him so no worries there! Can't chance him laying in that mess :)

[wade]

I've had nurses actually applaud when I poop.

[Caryl]

Wade, that's SO GROSS!:-puke01: I've had 4 abdominal surgeries, so I unfortunately know from whence you come, but EWWWWW!

Beth, I'm delighted to hear some positive signs are showing up with Festy! (And I second Terri's motion for no poop pix!) Soon he'll shed, then he'll eat, and we'll all have a celebration. :cheers: Lori's right; the whole forum has emotionally adopted Festy. You too, in a totally non-creepy way!

[Jadie.Glitch]

:roflmao: haha, agreed

[starsevol]

Here are a few pics I took this morning.
See the hump at the back of his neck in the last pictures?

He also has what looks like a V shaped slice in his skin farther down that you can see in the pictures. I have no idea where it came from, it wasn't there when he came home from surgery...

[Drewby07]

that poor baby!!!

[jpccusa]

He looks so much better than I was expecting!

[Rich in KY]

Poor lil guy.

He does look better than I expected. He seems very alert.

[Nanci]

He looks great! Look how bright (alert) he looks! He definitely has the will to live.

Did you see the person on here, new, that has the snake with a broken neck, where it's stuck at a 45 degree angle? (He was like that when she got him). He does fine, like that!!

[measley]

It's nice to see him exploring and poking his head out of the tub! Like others, I was expecting much worse.

I'm sure he'll pull through this!

[Jadie.Glitch]

Awesome!! I'm so happy that he's doing so well.

I have to admit though that the first picture scared me!! I was like "What the heck is that sticking out of his neck!! Oh no! It's worse than I thought!!!"... but then I was like.. oh... it's just someone's hand printed on the newspaper, heh.

Glad he's doing better... and about that cut, does it look like it's just a skin abrasion or does it look like it came from inside? I don't mean to frighten you at that idea but I thought I'd bring it up. It LOOKS like just a skin wound, but I'm not there in person, so I had to ask just to be on the safe side.

[Kokopelli]

He has to make it, he just ought'a... :(
I know it sounds silly but look at him, he -wants- to live

[starsevol]

Glad he's doing better... and about that cut, does it look like it's just a skin abrasion or does it look like it came from inside? I don't mean to frighten you at that idea but I thought I'd bring it up. It LOOKS like just a skin wound, but I'm not there in person, so I had to ask just to be on the safe side.

At first I thought the vet had missed a piece of the metal, even though she said that she thought she got it all. But it feels flat when you touch it, and it doesn't seem to hurt him. I think if a piece had been missed, he might be dead now from internal injury. I noticed the cut about 2 weeks ago. I want to see what it looks like after he sheds.

[Jadie.Glitch]

Well that's good to hear. I'm sure he'll be one happy camper after he sheds and then eats ^_^. (((((Beth&Festivus)))))

[Nanci]

Too bad you don't live by me- we'd bring him in for an x-ray! That would rule out stray metal...Seriously, I'm sure it would be boiling out in a huge infection if something was missed...

[starsevol]

Too bad you don't live by me- we'd bring him in for an x-ray! That would rule out stray metal...Seriously, I'm sure it would be boiling out in a huge infection if something was missed...

I'm thinking the same thing :)

[Nanci]

You could check with a light magnet, not the super-duper magnet...(I don't really think anything's there, though).

[starsevol]

Just the thought scares the crap out of me.....

[RobbiesCornField]

(((((beth&festy))))))
Here's to hoping for a nice smooth road to recovery after he sheds!

[Caryl]

Beth, he looks so sweet and trusting, in spite of all he's been through. I'm delighted to see him so alert. (Even though I was horrified, like Jadie - it took me a moment to process that image. :-) Keep your chin up. Festy's obviously trying to recover, instead of giving up. We're all pulling for you both.

[Lyreiania]

Hi Beth...
Im wondering how your poor Festivus is doing, I havent seen anything new from you and I hope its cause he is better. I continue to send the two of you good thoughts and well wishes.
Sincerely,
Susan

[measley]

Beth, has Festivus shed yet?

[starsevol]

Well here is the latest...he went clear well over a week ago, and should have shed by now, but he hasn't. His wounds in his neck look like they are healing, but overall he looks wispy and thin...

He hasn't eaten a thing, and was 96g on October 25, I'm afraid to weigh him because he's starting to look REALLY skinny and he feels very light when I pick him up.

This morning I looked in on him, and he was very weak and hardly moved. But somehow there were feces in the cage, even though his last meal was October 5. I held him while he drank, he can't seem to find the waterdish anymore, and after his drink he seemed a little more lively.

If only he would shed already!

[a_god_s]

Well here is the latest...he went clear well over a week ago, and should have shed by now, but he hasn't. His wounds in his neck look like they are healing,
I held him while he drank and after his drink he seemed a little more lively.

Thanks for the update....It seems he's really trying for you! Stay strong, we're all pulling for him!

[Caryl]

Ditto what Dee said. Hugs..

[starsevol]

He's really not looking good. He still hasn't shed, he's unresponsive, and his mouth is crooked and half open. He can't find the waterdish, but drank like a sponge when I held him near the water,opening his mouth really wide.
I offered him a brained pinky, and he wouldn't touch it. I think I will wait til tomorrow night and offer him a dripping wet pinky before offering him water...other than that I don't know what to do.
I'm pretty sure I'm losing him...

[a_god_s]

Oh Beth!

My heart is breaking for you...I want to hold onto hope...and believe that he'll come around!

[Tula_Montage]

Horrible news :( Sending you and your poor boy all the best wishes in the world. Don't give up festy!

[Caryl]

Come on, Festivus. You've held on this long, you can do it. And Beth, we're all hoping this crisis will pass and he'll turn around.

[Jenstar]

I'm so sorry... You and Festivus are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Nanci]

Poor little Festivus. I wish this wasn't happening.

[Pasodama]

Oh, Beth ... I am so sorry to hear of this turn of events.:(
I'm still praying that he makes it though!
As far as rejecting his food, I don't think his current condition is due to a lack of food... so, just in case you are (or start to), don't beat yourself up over that aspect.
Have you been back in contact with the vet?

[starsevol]

Oh, Beth ... I am so sorry to hear of this turn of events.:(
I'm still praying that he makes it though!
As far as rejecting his food, I don't think his current condition is due to a lack of food... so, just in case you are (or start to), don't beat yourself up over that aspect.
Have you been back in contact with the vet?

I haven't called the vet yet...she thought he would eat nearly 3 weeks ago. I don't think he will improve or eat until he sheds, and I can't understand why shedding is taking so long.
He went blue 3 weeks ago, and cleared up 9 days ago...but no shed.
He just lays there, the only time he looks "almost" normal is after he has a drink of water, but if I don't hold him near the water it's like he doesn't know it's there...
He was on antibiotics the full 3 weeks as perscribed, and the wounds themselves look like they are healing nicely.

I just emailed Bayou again....

[Tula_Montage]

Does it look as though his skin is just sitting on top of him like it's ready to shed? If so why not pop him in a container with some luke warm water and just let him soak up. It make make the shedding process much easier for him although I understand it could consume energy he just doesn't have :(

[starsevol]

It does, Elle.
It's loose...

Think I should?

[Tula_Montage]

Deffinatley. Rub a damp cloth on his nose to losen the skin and begin the shedding process. Do it for him so he doesn't expend all his own energy.

I've "hand shed" many times before (even on my chondro) and despite what some say I have NEVER caused any scale damage whatsoever. Just go slow and steady especially at his neck and don't pull to quickly at the vent.

[starsevol]

Ok, I need to do the dinner dishes, but I will try it. At least soaking him. I'm so nervous though. He's so weak...

[Tula_Montage]

Then I doubt he will shed by himself. Doing it for him is the best option at this point I think. Best of luck :)

[starsevol]

How long should he soak before I start rubbing his nose?

[Nanci]

I'd give him 20 minutes or so. Maybe not that long.

[Tula_Montage]

5 to 10 minutes. Not too long. I find it usually comes away very quickly if you gently just rub the nose back the way. My Halmahera isle boas will sit for weeks with the skin just sitting on top of them. I eventually get bored and just pop them in a moist box for a wee while and start the shedding process. They finnish it themselves very quickly after that.

[starsevol]

Thanks...I don't know if this will save him, but at least he might be a little more comfortable....