Another call for help for non-feeding Rosy the Snausage wench!

[LBoz]

Ok, gang....I know you're probably all tired of my whining that I cannot get this gal to feed. I know I am! I've tried so many of the basic tricks listed throughout the forum.
These are not exactly in order of attempt:
live pink
frozen
paper bag overnight, small containers in the dark, etc.
braining/slitting
partial fuzzy
lizard scenting
soap washing then lizard scenting
raw chicken scenting, mouse bed scenting, hamster bed scenting
teasing
and eventually assist feeding twice which she did keep down.

So the other night in chat someone (Beckers, maybe? Can't remember who it was) suggested rat pinks. It was so busy in there that I didn't get a chance to follow the line of thought so I'm asking here.

Has anyone had success with this food over regular mice? I'm not positive that I can find them at the local stores, but I'm going to call around to check. Should I cut it lengthwise? Offer just the head?

If she rejects I'm going to assist her again. Should I assist with a mouse pink OR the rat pink? Not sure which offers the highest nutrition.

I'm really getting desperate here. If this doesn't work, I'm going to send her to a local person to see if they can rehab her for me. I can't bear to see her wasting away. I probably should have sent her off before this, but I was determined. Now I think it's getting to be a battle of wills, and I'm losing. :(

[Tula_Montage]

Ok one question... How do you OFFER her they prey item?

As you know I have had HUGE success this year with chicken scenting (especially cooked meat slices rubbed all over the pinks) for non feeder corn hatchlings. But I don't think the scent of the item is enough, I have found some like their prey wiggled, some like it held perfectly still straigt in front of them, some like it left at their hide and I even have one who doesn't want to know it's there so you have to drop it in during the day when hes sleeping so he can find it as a surprise at night LOL.

It's a combination of WHAT you offer and HOW you offer that you need to tailor to fit the individual wants of each hatchling. Something that takes a while to learn... Like snake psychology.

I think if she was willing to eat FT mice before, then she is perfectly willing to eat them again.

The new brb I got was a fussy feeder who apparently only ate every 3 weeks on rat pups and would touch mice. She was also always taken out her box and put into a feeding container to eat but you had to leave her a few hours. I got her to feed the very first night I got her on a small mouse. How? Well I offered it to her when she was coiled in her home. I used a piping hot prey item since boas react better to heat than smell in my experience. She showed some interest but not enough. I then laid the mouse in her coils and tickled her with it... more interest. It ended up turning into a frenzied zombi mouse dance that she struck down with no remorse. So what did I learn, she likes it hot and she likes being annoyed with her food enough for her to strike feed. Result.

[LBoz]

Elle, I didn't know you had used COOKED meat! Now that I haven't tried.

I have done the teasing, wiggling thing and she would actually bite it and coil it until she was sure it was dead, and then she backs off and leaves it. She's done this repeatedly. I've also just put her into a small container with the pink already in there and left her for hours - nothing. Reheated and then left her overnight - nothing. Left her in small container with live pink overnight - nothing, and pink was still alive the next morning. After two assist feedings, I was afraid that she may have been put off of pinks altogether, so I offered her a partial fuzzy hoping that the fur might be more inticing for her - nothing.

I just can't seem to find the right combo for her. If you lived nearby, I'd put her in a basket with a pink blanket on your doorstep, ring your doorbell and RUN LIKE THE WIND!!! :laugh:

[Lennycorn]

Make yourself a tunafish sandwitch and save the juices to dip your pink in.
Also how long do you wait until yor try to offer food again??

[Tula_Montage]

LMAO! And I would welcome her in :) Have you never tried to just feed her in her home? Whats her setup like? I have found some boas like it hotter or colder than others and don't have a good feeding response if they are outside their comfort zone. For example, my candoia like piping hot prey items, but they don't like their temperatures above 85. They are too hot and agitated at the recommended 88-90.

I never use feeding tubs, because I find the disruption can upset the snake and make it not eat. Think of it this way, how would you liked to be lifted out your bed when you are fast aleep, shoved in a chair at a dining table and were confronted with a HUGE breakfast. Would you be all that keen to eat? I always offer food at the enterance of their hide and 100% of the time get a strike reaction. I guage their interest by tapping on their hide to wake them up. I want them to come to the food, not for me to force it upon them. My snakes simply don't get fed if they don't strike. They quickly learn...

[LBoz]

Lenny, I actually did get a can of tuna yesterday for that very purpose. I've heard mixed reviews on the success of that, though, but at this point I'll try anything.

I typically go around 4 days between attempts unless I've assist fed her. She had one regurg, so I wait a full seven days after an assist before trying again.

[LBoz]

LMAO! And I would welcome her in :) Have you never tried to just feed her in her home? Whats her setup like? I have found some boas like it hotter or colder than others and don't have a good feeding response if they are outside their comfort zone. For example, my candoia like piping hot prey items, but they don't like their temperatures above 85. They are too hot and agitated at the recommended 88-90.

I never use feeding tubs, because I find the disruption can upset the snake and make it not eat. Think of it this way, how would you liked to be lifted out your bed when you are fast aleep, shoved in a chair at a dining table and were confronted with a HUGE breakfast. Would you be all that keen to eat? I always offer food at the enterance of their hide and 100% of the time get a strike reaction. I guage their interest by tapping on their hide to wake them up. I want them to come to the food, not for me to force it upon them. My snakes simply don't get fed if they don't strike. They quickly learn...

Actually, I've only once tried feeding her in her home. She just burrowed away and left it. But she was in a 10 gal then. Currently she's in a 5g with two hides, branches and lots of plant cover. I've increased and decreased her heat side according to different advice. She seems to prefer the current 90F temp and spends the majority of her time in that hide. I had raised it to 93 and it was obvious she coudn't find a good spot to hide.

I also don't wake her to feed. She is most active in the late afternoon, so that's when I've been doing my latest attempts.

You've given me a lot to think about though. At this point, I'm not sure what to try or how to try it. Another scented left at her entrance point? An unscented? Lizard/tuna/chicken/chocolate cupcake scented? Aaaargh!!!

[Tula_Montage]

I'll take a chocolate cupcake scented, and you can try her with a piping hot FT pinkie. Switch her to kitchen roll and shove her in a hatchling tub. The smaller the better, just until she has started feeding. I would also black out 3 sides of her tub with duck tape. This has worked well for me with royal pythons. Give her a completely minimalistic setup, don't give her as much oppertunity to run away from her food. Branches and plans etc only allow her to feel as far away from food as possible.

[Tula_Montage]

Ooops double post

[LBoz]

Ok, when you say "hatchling tub", do you mean a small plastic container? (I've never had hatchlings!) Will the heat mat melt it?

God I'm such a newb. :cry:

[Tula_Montage]

Yup just a small plastic tubs. I use this for my corny hatchlings which may be too small for a baby rosy. However you get the idea. The plastic will not melt as long as the heat is controlled by a thermostat.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/tula-montage/gummies001.jpg

[Lennycorn]

[QUOTE=Tula_Montage;717547]I would also black out 3 sides of her tub with duck tape. This has worked well for me with royal pythons. Give her a completely minimalistic setup, don't give her as much oppertunity to run away from her food. QUOTE]

I usually handle my snakes pryer to feeding and then place them in my feeding container which is my amel first 5 gal viv. I taped the walls with a brown paper bag and cover the lid as they are feeding for the same reason.

[Tula_Montage]

I usually handle my snakes pryer to feeding and then place them in my feeding container which is my amel first 5 gal viv. I taped the walls with a brown paper bag and cover the lid as they are feeding for the same reason.

Theres some snakes you can handle before feeding, and some you just can't. Some have a fabulous feeding response no matter what, and some are great feeders, but only if given enough privacy and aren't disturbed too much beforehand.

[LBoz]

This little girl is only a few months old. She still strikes and bites and rolls regardless of how I attempt to pick her up. I do hold her for a few minutes to allow her to calm down, but I can totally see Elle's analagy of dumping her at the breakfast table and forcing her to eat. I think I'll put her in a smaller cage today and do your minimal setup suggestion. I'll give her the day or so to re-settle in the new place and try to feed her after that. I'll keep you posted, and thank you again for all the help!!!

[3CardKnight]

Good luck with the minimalist approach, I hope it works. One other thing you might try (if you haven't already) is have the hot pinky in a small feeding tub and as soon as you pull out the snake, while she's still striking, rolling, and irritated, put her nose right on the pink and see if she bites it in her rage. If this doesn't happen, stroke the pinky with the underside of her jaw and pull her away, teasing her, a few times. I've had better responses to this rather than making the food do the zombie dance. (Of course, I could just be a horrible puppeteer...lol)

[3CardKnight]

Oops, just realized I could've been clearer in my previous post. When you are putting the snakes nose on the mouse or stroking the mouse with the snakes jaw, you are only holding the back 1/2 to 2/3 of the snake and attempting to "paint with a wiggling piece of spaghetti" rather than holding the snake at the neck and forcing it's head to contact the yummy pinky.

[LBoz]

Thanks for the tips, James! I have actually tried the small tubs and the tease, not exactly the way you mentioned, though. That sounds like a good plan. What I've done is bump her on the side of her neck in an attempt to annoy her. That's when she's done the strike, bite and coil to kill the thing. Once she's sure that it won't bug her anymore, she leaves it. Then we start all over. She'll kill it again and leave it. Maybe she needs therapy for her anorexia. :P

On the GOOD NEWS front, she's gained 3 grams from her assist feeds!! Woot! She had dropped half her birth weight prior to me assisting her, so I'm very encouraged by that. Found a nice present when I disinfected her cage as well. :cheers:

So here's what I did. I couldn't get her heat mat off without damaging it, so I put an acrylic divider inside to cut her space down. Blacked out all sides except for the one smaller side for viewing. Put her hides back in and her water and that's it. She's roaming around with a visible WTH? look on her face. I'm going to try feeding her tomorrow.

[jenneses]

There is so much great advice, and I really can't add anything except eating thoughts, which I am sending to Rosy for you.

[LBoz]

Thanks, Jenne! All good eating vibes are highly appreciated!!

[Nanci]

3CardKnight just gave me an idea. To add to his suggestion, after you've given her the pink and she's coiling it, what if you have another one ready to tease her with, as he suggests? Then she doesn't have to let go of her prey.

What an infuriating little creature she is! Well, I see nothing wrong with assist feeding her until you unlock the mystery of how she wants her meals served.

[LBoz]

Ugh, that she is, Nanci! What little hair that I haven't pulled out in frustration is now completely grey!!

I'm not following your suggestion, though? When she does coil from the teasing, she lets go on her own, I don't try to take it from her. Is that what you mean? She will bite it and coil it until it's dead and then leave it. I then try again with the same pink. So you're suggesting I try again with a different pink? Sorry, I think I'm confuzzled.

[Nanci]

I was thinking she might coil like Noah, who strikes, coils violently, but lets go and squeezes the mouse to death while not biting it. He will also sometimes wander off at this point. So I was thinking, if she held on to the body but didn't bite, you could get her to bite a different mouse and maybe start swallowing. Sounds complicated, now...What does she do if you play tug-of-war with her once she's coiled? That makes Noah go into a psycho death grip.

[LBoz]

I was thinking she might coil like Noah, who strikes, coils violently, but lets go and squeezes the mouse to death while not biting it. He will also sometimes wander off at this point. So I was thinking, if she held on to the body but didn't bite, you could get her to bite a different mouse and maybe start swallowing. Sounds complicated, now...What does she do if you play tug-of-war with her once she's coiled? That makes Noah go into a psycho death grip.

I've never actually tried the tug-of-war with her. I have big SNAUSAGE fingers, so it's all I can do to let go of the tiny pink so she can get to it. The two mouse approach does sound interesting, though. Definitely food for thought, and I'm grateful. From what I've read of rosy's, I think because they are so slow moving (but fast strikers) that in the wild they wait for their prey to get close to their burrow and strike out to snag it. That's going to be my next approach such as Elle suggested for tomorrow. If that doesn't work, her next try will be your suggestion with the two mice. Hopefully if I annoy her enough, she'll get tired of this nonsense once and for all!

[Roy Munson]

Hey Lori. I guess the best I can do is tell you what I'm doing with her littermates. They each eat in a large deli cup, which is also their living enclosure. Yeah, it's cramped, and they need to be moved to something bigger, but they're eating. But they're only really eating live consistently. They are being kept at a no-gradient 86-87*. I give them a 20oz soda bottlecap full of water at their weekly feeding. It's dry by the next feeding session, but they don't need much water anyway. They've had perfect sheds under these conditions.

I changed out their paper towels and fed them yesterday, and they ate their live pinks within fifteen minutes. :shrugs:

Good luck. :o

[LBoz]

Hey Lori. I guess the best I can do is tell you what I'm doing with her littermates. They each eat in a large deli cup, which is also their living enclosure. Yeah, it's cramped, and they need to be moved to something bigger, but they're eating. But they're only really eating live consistently. They are being kept at a no-gradient 86-87*. I give them a 20oz soda bottlecap full of water at their weekly feeding. It's dry by the next feeding session, but they don't need much water anyway. They've had perfect sheds under these conditions.

I changed out their paper towels and fed them yesterday, and they ate their live pinks within fifteen minutes. :shrugs:

Good luck. :o

Dean, I didn't know they were still living in their deli cups! Geez, maybe her enclosure is STILL too big. There's still quite a bit of room in there. I wonder if I should move her into my little king's feeding bin and just keep her in that INSIDE her current viv. It's a 2 lb. potato salad container that I drilled a bunch of holes in. I think that's exactly what I'm going to do, and I'll do it now since she's already in stress mode from her current viv being altered. It's only been about an hour.

Sadly, our reptile store here closed and I have no access to live pinks. If you remember, I got a pregnant mouse that delivered, but rosy didn't eat that pink. Now I have the mom and five sibs, but they're a bit young still. See what this snake has driven me too?? :crazy01:

[Roy Munson]

It's too bad that you don't have decent access to live pinks. It's rare that the littermates accept anything f/t (even though they ALL had their first meal as f/t). I have a few snakes that would probably die if I couldn't get them live. I have an '07 hypo-tangerine Hondo that will not eat a mammal with hair on it. He's big enough that it only makes sense to feed him near-fuzzy rat pups. If they're not available (and they're often not), I have to get him five or six big pinks (at $3+ a pop). My male house snake will eat f/t about 1 out of 10 attempts (if he just shed, and he's REALLY hungry). So he gets a live adult mouse per week. :(

[LBoz]

It's too bad that you don't have decent access to live pinks. It's rare that the littermates accept anything f/t (even though they ALL had their first meal as f/t). I have a few snakes that would probably die if I couldn't get them f/t. I have an '07 hypo-tangerine Hondo that will not eat a mammal with hair on it. He's big enough that it only makes sense to feed him near-fuzzy rat pups. If they're not available (and they're often not), I have to get him five or six big pinks (at $3+ a pop). My male house snake will eat f/t about 1 out of 10 attempts (if he just shed, and he's REALLY hungry). So he gets a live adult mouse per week. :(Wow, that's got to run you a nice dime every month.

It was very sad to see our local store close. Another casualty of the big chain stores. But I was happy that at least I got a pregnant mouse from them. Most of the stores here only carry females and no males, and refuse to sell if they think you're using them as feeders. Fortunately, I got a male in the litter, so within the next month or so I'll have my own live supply. I don't have enough snakes to go with a bulk online purchase. I have a supply of frozen that I got when the store was going out of business, so hopefully between those and what I can get from my small colony will keep me going for a while.

Rosy's first feed was f/t, so I had high hopes. But she even refused a live after several attemts at another f/t, so who knows. Like I said, it's been a battle of wills and she's winning. I am very encouraged at her weight gain, though, so I'm still in the fight. One way or another, she and I will get this worked out. ;)