T-Shirts and stuff...

[tyflier]

Some people showed a great deal of interest in the stickers I offered a couple months back, so I took it a step further, and started putting it on T-shirts. There are T-shirts available with the "Support your local hookers..." logo on the back, as well as a few framed prints, wall clocks, and other merchandise available at King of Colubrids Merchandise (http://cafepress.com/KingofColubrids).

I will be adding designs and posters, and other products over the next few days, so check back!

Thanks!

[whippet]

Someone was selling your stickers at the Richmond expo in October and I wondered if those were authorized. The group was called V.I.P.E.R. anyway they seemed very popular.

[tyflier]

Someone was selling your stickers at the Richmond expo in October and I wondered if those were authorized. The group was called V.I.P.E.R. anyway they seemed very popular.

No...they weren't authorized. Any website info for this "V.I.P.E.R."? Were these vinyl die-cut stickers?

[Drewby07]

They were indeed exactly the same stickers you sell....the website is viiper.us.

I was wondering myself how they got them....

http://www.viiper.us/shop.htm

[Chip]

Wow, it seems like a site with its heart in the right place, but stealing intellectual property/artwork is not cool. He should have asked your permission and credited you for the design.

[tyflier]

Credited me with the design nothing...they should have bought them from me, at wholesale prices, which I offered to anyone willing to buy 10 or more.

I just sent them an email requesting a picture of the sticker they are selling. I posed as an interested customer...

If they stole my graphic, it's easy enough to prove. The image I used to create it is a picture of me taken by my girlfriend. They will be blasted all over the BOI and I WILL report them to Robert at reptilegeeks.com...

[Chip]

Umm... I'm on your side, man.

[tyflier]

HERE (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121963) is the thread I started at the BOI about this.

I have posted my original design, the very first sample produced affixed to the rear of my herping car, the sticker they are selling, and the original photograph of me taken by my girlfriend that was used to create the graphic.

It would be nice if anyone familiar with this situation, and supportive of my claim, would make a post, giving any information you have.

This is ridiculous...

[ArpeggioAngel]

That is complete BS Chris. You know I will stand behind you!

[Tula_Montage]

It's every "artists" worst nightmare, people making money off your original designs and work. Shocking!

[whippet]

Wow...yeah sad. I remember Hyp and I saying something to ourselves at the time, but we could not get close to the VIPER table due to the crowd to ask if you were one of them. I could not remember where you were from. Glad I said something here then. Sorry about your problem. I totally understand, I have had my art appear on things on ebay in the past so I totally understand. Fight the good fight man!

[Tula_Montage]

This is the reason I never post a high res image on the Internet, and if I do it's not without visible and embedded watermarks.

[Khaman]

Chris, have you informed them to "Cease and Desist" using your copyrighted material or made them aware of the BOI post?

[tyflier]

Chris, have you informed them to "Cease and Desist" using your copyrighted material or made them aware of the BOI post?

Yes. Amanda, the Secretary, goes by "biteyrock" or something on this site. She has made contact via email, to which I responded, and she has posted in the BOI topic.

She claims she created the graphic herself in March...Check the BOI thread...it's interesting...

[jazzgeek]

She claims she created the graphic herself in March...

I'd then ask for the original (presumably layered) source files for proof. Then, you can watch them dance some more. ;)


Dale

[sober_serpents]

i wonder what the measurements are of each sticker?? like.. the lettering for one and the size of the actual person?? just random thought.. i 2nd the original sketch. we've seen yours, chris, what about theirs?

[Hypancistrus]

The stickers Tara and I saw were identical. I even said to her "Aren't these the stickers Chris was selling on CS.com??" Like she said, their table was crowded-- we could not get close enough to talk to them.

They were also selling stickers memorializing the death of that girl who got killed by her retic while trying to medicate it single handedly, defying all logic and large snake handling rules in the process... sorry, but not exactly something I'd chose to memorialize or call attention to. I haven't been real impressed with the group, and this only adds to that feeling...

[tyflier]

Bobby Jenkins of V.I.I.P.E.R. responded to the page I amde at my own website. You can follow that transaction HERE (http://www.kingofcolubrids.com/wordpress/?p=500). This page on my site will remain open and active, and open for further commentation.

It seems as though Bobby Jenkins and the group want to seperate themselves from this wrongdoing...which is good. I have asked him to urge Amanda to step forward and make a public apology and admission of guilt directly on my website.

[Nanci]

So now the president of VIIPER says they were NOT selling them at Richmond??

[tom e]

UGGGH! Sorry Chris, this is so shady.

[tyflier]

Yea...it sucks. But at least I have one public apology, and hopefully one more coming soon enough. The admission of guilt from Amanda is what I want.

I don't blame Bobby Jenkins. It is possible he didn't know where the logo came from, and simply believed that Amanda created it, as she said she did. I won't hold that against him.

However...I will absolutely keep my personal page about this incident active and alive, with his apology and hers when it comes. These images are worth money to me...

[Chip]

She claims she created the graphic herself in March...

If it wasn't such a specific image I might believe that. The angle, the hook, the snake profile, the LOGO; all of that can't be coincidental.


Oh, and I just released an album called "Sgt. Pepper's lonely Hearts Club Band.":dancer:

[tom e]

Something else that don't fly in my opinion.

They say they only printed and sold 7 stickers. So how did multiple people from this site happen to witness them being sold? It seems unlikely to me that they all just happened to pass at the same time.

Also, they are still listed for sale on the website. If only 7 got printed (and all those sold) how could it possibly be listed for sale as of today?

[tyflier]

Something else that don't fly in my opinion.

They say they only printed and sold 7 stickers. So how did multiple people from this site happen to witness them being sold? It seems unlikely to me that they all just happened to pass at the same time.

Also, they are still listed for sale on the website. If only 7 got printed (and all those sold) how could it possibly be listed for sale as of today?

I'm backing off for a moment, and giving them time to remove the sale link and remove the image from their gallery. I've also given Amanda time to make her public admission of guilt and public apology on my website.

If these things don't happen by tomorrow, I will be contacting a young lawyer in town that is just dying to get his hands on a nice slam-dunk public case to get his name out there...

[ghosthousecorns]

Unbelievable, this person is so busted for ripping you off, I can't even imagine what she was thinking to try and say it was a coincidence that the images are "eerily similar". I think you are being more than generous in allowing the chance for her to make an apology and being willing to accept that apology and drop the matter if she does.

[tyflier]

If it wasn't such a specific image I might believe that. The angle, the hook, the snake profile, the LOGO; all of that can't be coincidental.


Oh, and I just released an album called "Sgt. Pepper's lonely Hearts Club Band.":dancer:

I said the same thing when it was first called to my attention. The first thing I wanted to do was make sure it wasn't the same phrase with a different graphic being used. There would have been little to do if that were the case. I didn't get upset until I saw the image and immediately recognized it as my own.

If the link offering them for sale isn't removed, I have a case for small-claims court, showing that they are profiting from my intellectual property. It would be a nice, easy-to-prove, but still high-profile case for a young lawyer...You know how the media just LOVES to jump on internet-based cases. Especially when dealing with Freedom of Speech or Theft of Intellectual Property...

[Chip]

I really hope Amanda just apologizes and admits she took the image. I'm squirming just reading her posts, what a sh*tty place to be in. I wonder if it's like OJ convincing himself of innocence: "I didn't steal that image! No, I really didn't. Hey, I didn't! These people are persecuting me!" Really what stinks here is the whole group (who seem to be well-intentioned) being dragged into it over one member's action.

[jazzgeek]

Oh, and I just released an album called "Sgt. Pepper's lonely Hearts Club Band.":dancer:
:roflmao:

Expect a phone call from Katie real soon. ;)


Dale

[ArpeggioAngel]

Expect a phone call from Katie real soon.
LOL Dale!!

[tyflier]

I have been told that Amanda is being temporarily suspended from the group for her actions. I was also informed that the image and sales link would be removed and that the group's entire membership would be informed that the image was stolen, who stole it, and where she stole it from.

As such, I changed my web page to not hold VIIPER accountable. They are not responsible for the actions of a misguided girl, and I won't hold them accountable.

[whippet]

Good for you!

[Chip]

Right on! That group SHOULD NOT be held accountable! No doubt in my mind they didn't get together and pour over the Internets and "steal" this image. It was one staffer who came forth with a "new" clever catchphrase and image, and the unknowing folks liked the idea. Just like I -or most (at least many) folks here would've if it was brought up as new.
Damn, I will really, REALLY think higher of this person I'll never meet -if she'll just say "sorry" at this point. The longer she takes, the harder "I'm sorry" will be to breathe.

[tom e]

Good move VIIPER! Sounds like a great end.. Well handled Chris!

[jazzgeek]

I'll chime in on this as well....

Well played, Chris. Agreed, this was not an error of a group, but rather of an individual.

You handled this with complete integrity. :cheers:


Dale

[tyflier]

So....does anyone wanna buy a T-Shirt?? 100% original design...;)

In all seriousness, I want to thank you all for your public support. A lot of you were "character witnesses", so to speak, and I appreciate every one of you for taking a public stand beside me. It means alot. It's nice to know where you can find your friends...

Here's a couple more items...

http://images4.cafepress.com/product/332723564v4_350x350_Front.jpg
Framed tile (http://www.cafepress.com/KingofColubrids.332723564)

http://images1.cafepress.com/product/332574801v17_350x350_Front.jpg
Wall clock (http://www.cafepress.com/KingofColubrids.332574801)

[ghosthousecorns]

Hey Chris, when you making a ball cap? That logo on a good hat would be great to go herpin', keep the sun out of your eyes! The thongs crack me up lol..

[tyflier]

I'm working on it...

On another note...the lies started up again. Check the BOI thread for updates...

[tom e]

OH my. These people are something else..

[a_god_s]

Wow, I went through all the posts at Fauna and you really gave them a chance to fess up and clear the air without have to resort to lawyers.

Viipers website is down but that doesn't negate the issue at hand.

They stole your property and I'm behind you 110%...get the lawyer!!:realhot:

[a_god_s]

Just a follow up...It would be easiest to find out how many were made by getting the name of the company who did the print work.

You could get a lot of other useful information from them as well. What date they were contacted to do the work and by whom....etc

Good luck with this!!

Thieves make me :angry01:

[tyflier]

Just a follow up...It would be easiest to find out how many were made by getting the name of the company who did the print work.

You could get a lot of other useful information from them as well. What date they were contacted to do the work and by whom....etc

Good luck with this!!

Thieves make me :angry01:

Actually, the guy that made the stickers for them has already been named in the BOI thread. I haven't contacted him as of yet. I won't bother him with the issue unless I DO need to get a lawyer involved.

The reality is quite simple...I don't want to go to court. I don't want to sue the group. I want the person that stole my image to grow a pair, admit they were wrong, and apologize for it. The only reason I am considering legal action is because they refuse to do this very simple action...

I have been contacted by other members of the group. Believe me...they want the guilty person to do this as badly as I do. At least they are smart enough to realize the situation and it's potential for serious implications and repercussions against the group...

[a_god_s]

Actually, the guy that made the stickers for them has already been named in the BOI thread. I haven't contacted him as of yet. I won't bother him with the issue unless I DO need to get a lawyer involved.

The reality is quite simple...I don't want to go to court. I don't want to sue the group. I want the person that stole my image to grow a pair, admit they were wrong, and apologize for it. The only reason I am considering legal action is because they refuse to do this very simple action...

I have been contacted by other members of the group. Believe me...they want the guilty person to do this as badly as I do. At least they are smart enough to realize the situation and it's potential for serious implications and repercussions against the group...

I admire your restraint. I can only hope that they (Amanda & Bobby) do as well. I'm sure they know they've dug themselves a deep one, lucky for them your offering a way out...they may lose face but geez how hard is it to man up and accept responsibility for your actions?
It wouldn't have grown to these epic proportions if they would have just admitted from the beginning, apologized, taken a few lumps; it would have been over, but no.....

[kathylove]

Sorry to hear about this - what a mess they have gotten themselves into!

As a photographer, Bill occasionally finds his images being used without authorization, so I can empathize with your situation. It is amazing that these 1 or 2 (or ??) people are being let off so easily, yet refuse to take the obvious route to dig themselves out!

A lot of people never think about asking permission to use stuff on the Net. That doesn't make it right, but it is a common mistake. But one has to live with the consequences of mistakes. If a simple acknowledgment of the mistake and an apology is the only consequence, they should be really happy to get off so easily!

Good luck on a quick resolution!

[RobbiesCornField]

As a photographer, Bill occasionally finds his images being used without authorization

I will be the first to admit that I've posted a picture that Bill took a while back in another forum (I think it was of the scaleless BP?), but I also put at the beginning of the post "Photo by Bill Love", followed by a link to his site. It really didn't take more than 30 seconds to do.
People need to give credit where credit is due, and take responsibility if they make a mistake. It's such a shame that the "leaders" of this group are so proud that they can't even (I hate this phrase) "man up" enough to apologize.

[Khaman]

As a photographer, Bill occasionally finds his images being used without authorization..

How does Bill handle this?

[measley]

Wow, I just read that entire BOI thread-

I'm so sorry you're going through this and it amazes me that people can be so stubborn!

[kathylove]

"How does Bill handle this? "

It depends on the use. If it is for a profit making venture (so far, that has included books, magazines, some jewelry, and once it was sales brochure for a company that made electronic reptile equipment), then he makes out an invoice for around $300 or so and sends it to them. Sometimes they pay up, sometimes they negotiate different terms, and sometimes they pull the product. Only TFH books (as far as we know) stole photos (about 16, used in their 3 volume set on reptile care, I believe) from him and steadfastly refused to do anything whatsoever to compensate him. They basically said that they have lots of lawyers on staff, so invited us to get a lawyer and sue them, knowing it would not be worth doing it, since their usual rate of pay is extremely low. That is why you won't see Bill's photos in their books (other than the unauthorized use noted) - both because of the low pay, and because we have never been too impressed with the quality of most of their line of books. As you can imagine, we don't recommend their books!

If it is an individual or non-profit who is just using it for education or for their own non-commercial use, he usually just asks them to credit him, if he decides that the site or use is something that he wants to be associated with. If not, he asks them to remove the image. Most people are very apologetic - it just never occurred to them that they should ask permission first.

[tyflier]

...If it is an individual or non-profit who is just using it for education or for their own non-commercial use, he usually just asks them to credit him, if he decides that the site or use is something that he wants to be associated with. If not, he asks them to remove the image. Most people are very apologetic - it just never occurred to them that they should ask permission first....

They had a link on their website offering it for sale at a lower price than my own website. But still...I just want the lesson learned in this one. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. But the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. And unfortunately, all of the lying and backpedaling actually makes it look worse, because the very first contact they made with me was a bold-faced lie. It STRONGLY implies that it was willfull and maliscious in nature...

The worst part is...if they had sent me an email and asked, I would have sold them bulk stickers at my cost for use in their group and even to turn around, mark them up, and sell them. They said they sold them to their group members "at cost", and I can assure you...if they were being sold "at cost", it would have been cheaper to buy them from me in bulk...and it would have saved a lot of trouble...:uhoh:

Robbie-
Usually if you're using an image in a post on a forum, as long as you provide credit for an image or text, and if possible a link to it's original context, most people won't mind.

I have seen a website created entirely with images that the site owner had "borrowed" from Google, and not one shred of credit was given. I know this because I found pictures of my own as well as pictures from a few other sites I was familiar with. When I emailed the owner of the site, he was very apologetic, and within hours ALL of the pictures were removed, and there was an apology in place.

[tyflier]

The matter has been closed. I recieved this email this morning:

Chris,





Hello. After ‘speaking’ with Amanda and a bit more investigating into this issue, this is what I have discovered:





v Mrs. Warren emailed your image to me back in August 2008. I informed her that we would just make our own.



v The image was emailed to the printer.





v 10 stickers (which I have confirmed) were made and printed the first week of September 2008.



v To my knowledge they were all sold to members with the exception of 1 or 2 at the Richmond Virginia Show.





Your image was used without your verbal or written permission. I would like to apologize privately and publicly for the usage of your image. I did not have the authority from you to have these made. I sincerely hope that you can forgive my misdoings in this matter.







Sincerely,





Bobby Jenkins


Bobby Jenkins

President

VIIPER

Virginians Interested In Protecting Every Reptile

Accepting this public admission of guilt and apology, I have stood by my word and removed all referances to the group of VIIPER from all of my blogs and postings surrounding this issue.

I have also contacted the Vice-President of the group and offered to sell them bulk-quantity stickers at my cost, and my shipping expense to aid them in any future programs or sales they may want to offer them at.

Bobby has posted a Blog of the above apology at ReptileGeeks.com and also at the BOI.

I am considering the matter closed. Thanks to everyone for supporting me and helping me work through this.

[kathylove]

Glad to hear it is finished! Too bad it took them so many emails and pages on various websites to do what should have been so simple!

I have not actually been to your site to see how it is set up. But if you are not already doing so, you might want to protect your images, one way or another. On my site, Bill has (very lightly) either written "sample" or an "x" on each one, here:
http://cornutopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/-%20BOOKS%20POSTERS%20herp%20for%20sale%20Cornutopi a%20corn%20snakes%20cornsnakes.htm

Sometimes he embeds his little Blue Chameleon logo in other photos. The photos CAN be cropped to eliminate it, or it can be erased in PhotoShop. But most of the people who use images without authorization are amateurs who don't bother, or don't use such programs. He also often uses only low - res photos on the Net, so they don't look very good when printed. A skilled thief can get around some of these precautions, but most will either ask for permission, or just go on to an easier target.

Good luck on your future sales!

[a_god_s]

The matter has been closed.

I have also contacted the Vice-President of the group and offered to sell them bulk-quantity stickers at my cost, and my shipping expense to aid them in any future programs or sales they may want to offer them at.

Thanks to everyone for supporting me and helping me work through this.

I'm glad you have resolution and that is very generous offer you made.

Your a GOOD guy Chris and let that be a lesson to anyone else that "uses without permission"! :twoguns:

[tom e]

I'm just glad that people get caught when they do it. Can you imagine? Chris is making stickers all the way out here in CA, and someone in Virginia copies 10 and gets snagged for it... I'd never have thought it would happen that way. Guess the 'small world' gets even smaller when you talk about a specific community and the internet.

Let that be a lesson, lol.

[tyflier]

I'm just glad that people get caught when they do it. Can you imagine? Chris is making stickers all the way out here in CA, and someone in Virginia copies 10 and gets snagged for it... I'd never have thought it would happen that way. Guess the 'small world' gets even smaller when you talk about a specific community and the internet.

Let that be a lesson, lol.

Credit goes to Whippet. It was their inquiry that got me looking around and investigating. If they hadn't called my attention to the fact that these stickers were being sold in Virginia...I never would have know.

It's GOOD to know where your friends are, and who you can count on. Thanks everyone!!