Illness and early death in corns

[Lennycorn]

I pose this question to some of the owners out there with some years of experience with snakes.

I would like to hear from some of you to learn from your experience of illness that your snake have incurred and what you have done to treat it.
And what you might have learn from early death in snake too.

This information would be helpful to me and others to see some signs ahead of time.

[Susan]

First, I hope you don't mind, but after seeing no responses in the Misc. Cornsnake forum, I figured this thread might do better in the Health Issues forum.

Second, you've posed a very broad question that may be difficult to answer thoroughly. I'll add my little bit at least.

Over the years, I've lost my share of snakes. Some were due to complications of breeding, such as egg-binding or refusing to eat after laying. I tried the various methods mentioned throughout this forum to save them, but treatment is not always successful.

Other snakes were lost due to equipment malfunctions, resulting in temperatures too high that killed. Frequent examination of equipment will help prevent these things, but you can't monitor it 24/7 and it doesn't take long for the damage to be done, sometimes less than an hour.

Some snakes will show symptoms of illness, you can have a vet do their thing, administer the proper treatment and still the snake dies. Then you can have snakes that show absolutely no symptoms whatsoever, be perfectly healthy in a perfect environment one day and then drop dead overnight. Necropsy results may find a cause (I had one adult female suddenly die of a congenital liver defect) or they may find absolutely nothing, even if you saw something prior to death (a lump on an adult snake that was there for months, I took photos of it when I found the snake dead, but the lump disappeared overnight while the body was in the fridge waiting to go to the vet in the morning for the necropsy).

Then there are the physical accidents. I lost 2 wonderful males because they literally got stuck trying to go through a space in their tub (by the handle) that was too small for the largest part of their body. One I found already dead, but the other I found still alive, but the lower 2/3 of his body was already dead from lack of blood flow. Needless to say, I don't have that particular brand/style of tub in use in my collection anymore.

If you want more specific symptoms and treatments, read all the threads in the Health Issues/Feeding Problems forum as well as all the books on reptile medicine for you'll get all help and advice you can there.

[bitsy]

I've lost three females over the years from complications arising from egg-laying:

- A sixteen year old female that always produced a clutch of infertile eggs every year, even though I'd stopped mating her years previously. In her final year when she ovulated, I took her to the vet who gave her a course of calcium shots in the hope of building her up. However, despite this and a range of supplements in the weeks leading up to laying, she proved untimately too old and weak to survive laying and died shortly afterwards.

- A four year old female that refused to eat following her first clutch and faded away despite vet assistance with tube feeding, and supplements. I didn't have a necrosy done, but the vet commented that he had seen similar cases where the stress of egg formation and laying had exacerbated a previously latent internal issue, such as a kidney problem. His view was that she would probably have led a normal life if she had not been mated, but that there would have been no way of anticipating the risk. She had been in perfect health up the that point, a totally reliable eater and exceeded all the parameters for a breeding female.

- A five year old female who died whilst laying her first clutch. She was passing a slug whilst moving around the viv. The shell split before it was fully laid, leaking egg contents internally. She died of scepticaemia 24 hours later. The vet's view was that once the contents had leaked inside her, she could not have been saved. This was her first clutch, despite having been mated for the previous two seasons. Perhaps I should have taken Nature's hint on this one and given up? Again, not something that could otherwise have been anticipated.

Other than these, I have records of the following fatalities:
- A male that I hatched myself with a deformed eye scale. The vet surgically removed it but it grew back as before, causing fluid to build up over the eye before each shed. The vet offered me either euthanasia, or support if I chose to keep the youngster. He lived to be six before the eye became irrevocably infected and he was euthanased.

- A fifteen year old male that developed a tumour. Investigative surgery showed that it was inoperable and he was euthaniased whilst still under anaesthetic. Apart from constipation and some swelling around the tumour for ten days immediately before the operation, he had no other health problems during his life. The vet treated him for constipation for a week before proposing surgery. However, earlier intervention would probably not have saved him as the tumour would have been very advanced before he manifested any symptoms.

- A five year old female with a metabolic disorder. She was fed at the same rate as my other Corns, but aged three, suddenly ballooned in weight, laying down an enormous amount of fat. At the time of her death, she was at least twice the size of her sister, whom I also owned. A vet necropsy showed that her internal organs were choked with fatty deposits and that in all likelihood, she had died of heart failure due to the stresses this put on her system. The vet said that in early UK Corn breeding stock, there had been a metabolic disorder which manifested in these health problems. As she had hatched in 1988, she was most likely to have been one of those affected. Again, not possible to anticipate this, but the disorder has gradually become less common as affected Corns are removed from the gene pool.

Minor health problems not needing a vet are:
- Scale rot. Treated by keeping the snake in a tank with minimal and easily-cleaned fittings, changing newspaper and disinfecting the tank and fittings daily, and wiping the snake down with Tamodine daily. First symptoms were the snake going off her food and then appearing to be more limp than usual when picked up. Visible signs of rot didn't appear for a couple of weeks after I first suspected there was trouble brewing. Highlights the value of knowing each snake as an individual, if you don't have a warehouse-full.

- Retained shed. Leaving snake in a tank with a wet towel for a couple of hours usually does the trick. Shed-Ease employed in trickiest cases.

- Scratches and scrapes. If they reach as far as the skin, occasional application of Tamodine. Otherwise watched to ensure they remain clean. Usually resolved with a couple of sheds. Usually arise from new hides or viv decoration that I hadn't checked/filed properly before using.


Blimey. That reads like a right chapter of accidents! But please bear in mind that this is the result of nearly 18 years of Corn keeping. Hope it helps.

[Tracee]

Then there are the physical accidents. I lost 2 wonderful males because they literally got stuck trying to go through a space in their tub (by the handle) that was too small for the largest part of their body. One I found already dead, but the other I found still alive, but the lower 2/3 of his body was already dead from lack of blood flow. Needless to say, I don't have that particular brand/style of tub in use in my collection anymore.
Thanks for the info, both. Interesting topic Lenny.

The above from Susan particularly interested/terrified me - you would think they would know when a gap was too small to get through. As the owner of a rather girthy fella, I'm seriously rethinking whether the few items left in his vivarium are safe. Especially as I've seen him try to turn around in small spaces :nope:

Your experience is appreciated, as always.

[ghosthousecorns]

I started to reply to this yesterday and then I realized the topic could hardly be answered in a short post!
But I think most people here know what to look for as far as common health issues. Mites, regurges, looking very thin, crawling in an abnormal way, being partially upside down with no attempt to flip over, odd lumps and bumps, etc.

My personal experience? I lost one of my first corns to substrate ingestion from keeping and feeding on those bark substrates. I knew nothing, I didn't even have the internet back then.
I lost a "free" cornsnake that the person who gave it to me warned me had been gravid and retained an egg. I took on the snake without realizing how small she was, and when I saw she was way to small to have even been bred I was appalled. She was beyond the point where anything could have been done about it, because the time in between the clutch being layed and me receiving the snake was months and it was calcified. I had to euthanize her.
I lost another one due to neurological problems, which I suspect were from being shipped to me in freezing weather, he crawled in a strange way, held his head in a twisted to one side fashion, would not flip himself back over if upside down, would bite himself, and was not eating. I decided to euthanize him also.
And i have had my share of "failure to thrive" hatchlings pass away or be put down before they got to that point. I have also had a few escapes which I suspect did not fare well...

[Devilscat]

The first snake that I bred would not eat after being bred, laying a total of 30 eggs ( 7 which were slugs) and then later double clutched 9 more eggs. Not a good experience for a first time breeder. We lost all of the egg because of humidity problems with too many people trying to her us care of them. ( We had been in a auto accident. All three of us girls went to the hospital. I also lost a baby that just wouldn't eat no matter what I tried.

[Midnght]

Hmm not having had much death by way of health issues really I can merely add.

Don't cohab two early deaths that way.

Another death if they escape check any laundry laying around. I cna only hazard the guess my poor king was in a pile of clothes because how he ended up in the washing machine is still a mystery to us. He had escaped and we never were able to catch him.

My eldest died at 15 years. Failed to digest her last supper. Do not know what caused this but she's passed.

That's pretty much it for me besides mites once but that was a different snake it never moved to any others but I mite begoned them all the same.

you could watch out for shedding problems. Have a snake now that's lost a good portion of his tail due to being mistreated and not having his sheds removed off his tail. Reportedly if it's up to high to affect his excrement or procreation system as well potential infection when the tail falls off this can likely kill your pet.

And um use atsro turf despite it's looks no risk of eating it accidentally to cause impaction.

That's my two cents which is all it's worth.