Digestive Question

[HEVYCHEVY427]

I have an 02 Miami Phase that seems to have a digestive problem. If I feed him one small pinkie he has no problem and his lump disappears the next day...But if he takes two pinkies I have one heck of a time getting rid of the lump. I sometimes swim him and make him move his bowels and it will eventually go down. When this happens I skip his feeding. ( I feed my young snakes every 4 days) He is a very long thin snake. I have had him since March. Any Ideas or suggestions... I read about the parasite disease, but that does not say the lump ever goes down. His had in the past. Thanks:confused:

[CAV]

:eek: :eek:

I don't mean this to be overly harsh, but IMHO, you’re starving that snake. I’m sure it is thin. You have a yearling that is eating a single pinkie! In short......

FEED THE SNAKE! Stop worrying about the lump, bowel swimming or skipping meals and JUST FEED IT.

There is absolutely no reason that snake shouldn't be eating at least a large fuzzy or even small adult mice by now. Give it two pinkies every 4-5 days and start working up to bigger meals. The sooner you get it on fuzzies the better! The most important rule: if it doesn't regurge, feed it. Right now, you are the one deciding if the snake should be hungry, not the snake. Let the snake be your guide. Offer it food on a schedule. If it is hungry it will eat, if it isn't then it won't.

I suspect that your temps are too low and the digestive process is being slowed as a result. What temp are you using? Proper digestion needs 81-84 degrees.

I feed 70+ every week and I do nothing more than check in 2-3 days later. I don't care if the lump is still there or how big it is or isn't. No snake spa visits required, and (much to my dismay) the bowels move just fine.

In closing I'll leave you with a passage from Herpin' with Cooter:

"If you overfed a corn, you nose will know it first. This usually indicates that the "Regurge Fairy" has visited and let you a little present."

:D

And now I'll step down....

[Alex Dew]

Yeah, I agree with CAV

Feed you snake more.

I feed my 02 normal Aztec 2 fuzzies and week. She takes both on of the fuzzies in 3 min.

Dont worrie about the lump that much.

Thanks

Alex

[Darin Chappell]

I don't recall how this whole "I swim my snakes to make them poop on schedule" thing got started (actually I'm pretty sure I do, but I'm trying to be nice here :D). However, I really can see no benefit to the snake in such a practice.

The reality is that your snake is SUPPOSED to have a lump in its belly for longer than a day at a time, if you're feeding it enough. If a snake takes two pinkies at once, and keeps them down, it should be fed that much until it is able to take more. Once an animal is taking two fat pinks, I move them up to fat fuzzies. From there, it is just a few weeks before it seems like they are ready for hoppers, etc, etc.

If you have a snake that takes two pinks, don't worry about how long the lump is there. Check to make certain your temps are up like CAV suggested, then feed the animal as much as it wants and can keep down. As CAV also said, you'll know very quickly when the prey item was too large. Smell = :eek:

[HEVYCHEVY427]

I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE TELLING ME I AM STARVING MY SNAKE....HE HAPPENS TO BE AS ROUND AS HE POSSIBLY CAN BE, BUT NOT AS BIG AS THE OTHER CORNS OR KINGS I HAVE. HE HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR AT LEAST TWO MONTHS, AND HIS LUMP FROM EATING MORE THAN ONE PINKIE AT A TIME LASTS 8 DAYS NOT A COUPLE..NOW I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT BUT THAT SEEMS A LITTLE LONG TO ME!
AND FOR DARIN AND YOU THE SWIMMING THE SNAKE TO LOOSEN ITS BOWELS IN CASE IT IS CONSTIPATED COMES FROM CATHY LOVES BOOK " THE CORN SNAKE MANUAL" DO YOU WANT THE PAGE?
I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THAN TO ASK YOU PEOPLE ANYTHING..YOUR ENTIRE ATTITUDE IS REFLECTED IN BMM'S SIGNATURE SOME HALF WIT INSINUATION OF THERE BEING NO STUPID QUESTIONS ONLY STUPID PEOPLE ASKING THEM.
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED FOR ALL THE REAL HELP YOU GIVE IN THE WAY OF SARSCASIM AND HUMILIATION, MR Z MIGHT AS WELL CHUCK THIS WHOLE HELP FOR THE NOVICE IDEA. UNLESS YOU ARE PART OF THE PRIVILEGED FEW , MIGHT AS WELL ASK A STICK IN THE YARD.
DON'T BOTHER COMING BACK WITH YOUR PETTY QUIBBLING AND
"SOAP BOX" CRAP
I WILL NEVER COME HERE OR ANY OTHER FORUM AGAIN IT IS A WASTE OF TIME.
AFTER RAISING AND CARING FOR 20 HORSES AN 15 DOGS AS WELL AS FERRETS AND MANY OTHER OF GOD'S ANIMALS ..I
WILL CARE VERY WELL FOR MY SNAKES WITH OUT YOU CONCEITED, UNMANNERLY, CLIQUISH, YO YO'S:mad:

[Darin Chappell]

Hey Pal,

I was not talking about using a soak to loosen the stool of a constipated snake. I was talking about the more recent practice advocated by a few concerning giving cornsnakes regular baths to make them poop on a schedule, rather than allowing the natural process to take effect.

You want to jump on someone, fine by me. You want to jump on me? I probably deserve it from time to time. Just make sure you know what I was saying before you jump.

You don't want to be on these forums? We'll miss you. Bye.

:mad:

[Drizzt80]

Chevy you are way out of line on this one buddy. I went back and looked at your original post and did not see anything about the lump lasting 8 days or more.
You quote Kathy's book, but you are not trying to loosen the bowels of a constipated snake. According to your original post, you are freaking out after 1 day of having a lump. That's completely normal, and as CAV was actually very politely saying, you do not need to worry about constipation even after 2 or 3 days.
This is not a cliquish society here, but a place that needs ALL the information to give you the best answer. I've had my differences with some of the answers, or methods of giving answers, on this board as well, but to say it's not helpful would be a sad mis-statement.

I think you need to stop over-reacting to your snake and people in general. Do some legitimate homework and don't start quoting passages from books that have no reference to your particularly described problem.

Just my 1/2 cent.
D80
:eek:

[h0mersimps0n]

CHEVY, give these guys a second chance, make ammends and move on...

These guys do know what they're talking about...

What they lack in TACT they certainly make up for with their experience and knowledge...


It's good you came, you posted, and a misunderstanding was straightened out. I urge you to, as I did, move on from these comments and learn as much as possible.

discuss, have fun, HERP!

[Taceas]

I'm going to go out on a limb and defend HevyChevy.

Yes, he was out of line, and I believe everyone was a tad out of line as well. However I don't think he should leave just because of a few fightin' words. Sometimes the most a person learns is through their mistakes. Too bad most people don't realize that.

There's not a day that goes by that I don't see people jumping all over someone else like a duck on a junebug over a post in which they feel the snake is being mistreated or not cared for.

His first post was a bit vague on the particulars, I'll agree. But to diagnose a snake as being under fed without even seeing a picture is just ludicrous. It's like calling a surgeon and explaining this bump on your hand and expecting him to diagnose and treat it over the phone.

As for what he's going through, I understand. I've got a yearling charcoal that I thought was never going to make it up to fuzzies. I posted not too long ago how if I'd try 2 pinks he'd regurge and we had to subsist on one pink for months. And no, I don't starve my snake any more than he does his. So just because your snakes were up to fuzzies by their 6th month, doesn't make yours the standard rule that everyone else's snakes should follow. We've obviously shown that snakes don't generally follow the rules as we've got them so far, and most haven't read the Corn Snake Manual.

I've learned a hell of a lot on this forum and have even gained quite a few friends, but some people around here are clique-ish, ill-mannered, quick-tempered and just plain cruel to others without knowing the facts on the other end of the computer. So I think his summation on that was rather accurate.

He obviously cares for his snake and was worried about it, or else he wouldn't be here. I would be irate as well if I had gotten the reception he received on this particular post. It's about like the incident with my late ball python, I haven't a clue what happened to it as it was here at home and I was gone for the weekend. When I return it's head looks as though it was cut in half..I take it to the vet and all I get is was to be treated accusingly, accused that I had harmed my snake. If they would have stopped to listen to me they would have known the facts as I knew them, but they made their mind up before even asking me.

I think people this day in age forget that there are other people on the end of the computer lines and that those people have feelings, thoughts, emotions just like you. We've become a terribly impersonal society. I can't even go to the bank to deposit a check without being rushed along. When I call into a customer service department, I want to speak to a person, not a computer.

I shouldn't have to remind people to be civil and polite, but sometimes it's called for. Maybe it's because I'm a country bumpkin and I expect certain things from people, but I see no point in being rude and hurtful to others on just a shred of evidence post.

Hopefully this gets those of you who are guilty of this thinking. I left Kingsnake.com because of behaviour like this. The clique you had to be a part of just to get your posts answered, and I'd hate to have this forum become a haven for those types of people. I don't think that is what Rich had in mind when he set this place up.

I didn't intend on posting this much at length, but I needed to rant a bit. I've held this in for a few weeks and I needed to get it out. I'm not going to name names, I think you all know who you are. There are a few people on the forum whose posts I take with a grain of salt, but most have been helpful, courteous, and polite.

HevyChevy, I hope that you do not go just because of a few bruised apples. Every forum has a few, you just have to look past that. If anything, at least we have Rich, the only moderator who doesn't delete posts if you rub his hair the wrong way. ;)

[h0mersimps0n]

Well said T...

6 of one, half dozen of the other when it comes to these forums, personally I think there are more hostile/intolerance to anything sub-professionally-experienced around here than kingsnake though. Still it always helps to get a second opinion even if it requires enduring certain personalities.

[bmm]

I like your post Taceas but I feel another important part is people realizing that over the internet, its the internet. For one feelings cannot be expressed by typing. Nor can tone of voice, facial expression or anything else. For two, you are correct. Lots of different people have lots of different feelings, so people need to take this into account before getting so personally offended over every little comment.

I do help people, but I also don't just sweet talk when someone is obviously not getting it, not learning and not even trying. I won't waste my time, I normally help out for a few posts but after dozens of hard to read PMS from whoever it may be, stupid forum posts and more animal abuse, I am not being "sugar coaty". Frankly, I feel nothing is wrong with that. People need to lighten up. Big time.

As for my signature HEVYCHEVY....HAHAHAHAHAHA. Get over it. Its a simple saying someone sent to me in email. How a line of text can offend someone I have no clue. Also, if you are going to insult people here, then quote a book you read to prove your point, at least get the authors name spelled correctly.

But I really believe this website in particular has a huge problem with oversensitivity that no other forum I have been too has. Sorry no offense, but its really true in comparision with some of the other ultra popular forums. I understand, and its obvious, most of you feel its too "mean" but everyone is different.

bmm
One more thing to add....whats all this "CLIQUISH" talk? I for one don't even know what you guys are talking about. Honestly. I do not even KNOW one person on this forum outside the forum, let alone knowing of any "cliques"

[bmm]

And as for the problem in question, what you should do is simply take a fecal from this snake into the vet. Parasites can cause the issues you are talking about, but more specifically, non-growth. If that is the case.

It's cheap and easy to bring a fecal in. And the meds are also cheap.

bmm

[Sparda]

I have learned alot from this forum. I agree that some people are rude and insensitive when answering questions or posting comments. But since my last little spiff with someone on here I have learned to relax and just take it in stride. Most of my time on this forum is spent reading and learning from other peoples posts that relate to problems or questions that I may have. I think that some of you get annoyed with us "newbies" but we have to learn somewhere, and when we are treated like we are idiots it doesn't help. I would think that the more people get involved in corns the better the industry will become. (more buyers for the snakes that you guys produce.) I don't think many of us plan on getting to be big breeders but we enjoy or corns as much as anybody else does. And we try out best to learn and give them the care that they need to enjoy a long and healthy life with us. This is just my opinion on this whole affair.

[Darin Chappell]

I guess I'm a little sensative here today, but I have to say that I think I did absolutley nothing for which I should apologize here. I was wrong about misidentifying homer, and I was the very first one to say so and ask his forgiveness. I do not jump on people for no reason (or for any reason at all, usually), but there are times when the trolls get the better of me, I confess.

I was not trying to be tactless toward Chevy. I was also not referring to the loosening of constipated snakes. I was referring to the practice that a certain person, who no longer visits these boards it seems, advocated for compelling your snake to defecate in a bath so as to keep spot cleaning to a minimum int he cage. Isaid it then, and I say it again, I see no benefit in forcing your snake to poop on demand, and I think it can be too stressful to outweight any supposed benefits. THAT was the issue I was addressing, and Chevy jumped on me for something I did not say, imply, nor affirm!

I'll close by saying this. Communication is a wonderful thing between people, but even in a face-to-face situation, misunderstandings are possible. On the computer, it is far easier to misconstrue what someone else has intended to say, even with the emoticons we all use. So, I would think that everyone (myself included) probably needs to work on being more polite, but we all also need to work on toughening up our thin skins here! Quite frankly, I think too many times hurt feelings are as much fault of the supposed victim as they are of the supposed flamer. Perhaps if Chevy had come back with something like, "Hey, Darin! Were you saying I shouldn't loosen the stool of a constipated snake???" I would have immediately cleared up the confusion. Instead, he gets mad, types in CAPS, and stomps off. OK . . .what am I supposed to do now?

[Darin Chappell]

Others posted while I was typing (long-winded, I am!). So, let me add this:

I like newbies. I am a newbie in the big picture! I have sooooo much to learn it's scary, so I have no problems with people asking questions about cornsnakes. If they are of a nature of which others can best address them, I try to shut my mouth. If they are about issues that are near and dear to me, I try to be helpful, if I can.

What I get upset about is really a small list. I get upset with the fact that some kids come here and use these forums as their own personal experiment in human nature, regarding reactions to inane questions about which they have no real interest in an accurate or thoughtful answer. "My cornsnake flicks his tongue out at an average rate of 42 times a minute . . .Do you think he's gay?" OR "HELP! IMMEDIATE ATTENTION NEEDED! PLEASE ANSWER!!" The when you get into the post, it reads, "My cornsnake is dying, because he usually cruises around the tank in a counter-clockwise direction, but today he is going clockwise. Do you think it's because of the summer solstace?" Please don't misunderstand. I'm not upset with the kids (I have three), but I hate to see such wastefulness of time and energy on a forum that I have grown to love and feel especially tied to. I really bothers me that some of these children don't have the attention they need from their folks, and I sometimes say so, but I TRY not to make personal attacks. I have miserably failed at times, though.

I really get cranked up about all of the recently graduated from newbiedom folks who feel the need to parrot the four facts of cornsnake care that they have heard "somewhere," even though those things simply are not the cut-in-stone rules they believe them to be. But, that's another story. I try really hard not to say anything about those issues, and I'm fairly successful at it until I see someone being attacked for his newbieness by someone who has about five minutes more experience with corns. Then, I rush to the aid of the newbie.

At any rate, newbies are fine with me. Questions are fine with me. Jerking my chain just to see if I'll bite, that's not cool. Being 15 when you do the latter, is not an excuse. It's an explanation, but I still won't pander to the trolls just because they're younger.

I've probably ticked off more people than I've soothed here, but that's the way I feel about things . . .

[HEVYCHEVY427]

1. I am not a man
2. I am not a teenager..far from it 53
Thank you

[Skye]

Thanks for coming back HEVYCHEVY427

How is your snake doing?

Is there any way you could post a pic of the lump so we can see what you are talking about?

Skye

[HEVYCHEVY427]

I am sorry for going off. Maybe my hormone pill was not working. But when I was accused of starving one of my beloved snakes I went Ballistic Bitch Mode. When I get like that I know I should stay away from all human life forms.
I still feel that a lot of people asking questions are talked down to, but I do not want to dwell there.
I apologize to Cav, Darin and BMM.
If I can I will try to post a picture of little Cole with refrences to his size.

[Darin Chappell]

Nancy,

I looked back through my posts to make certain, but perhaps I missed it. I don't believe **I** said you were a teenager. My statements about the way SOME (certainly not all, not even a majority of them) kids act here, were made in answer to another point brought up by someone else. I did not mean to imply that you were a teenager, but if I did in some way, sorry for the confusion.

As for the confusion on you being male, that IS my fault 100%. I just saw your screen name, associated it with muscle cars, and made a leap in reasoning for which there was no evidence. Sexist on my part, to be certain. I apologize for that.

For the record, I hope you don't leave the forums.

[bmm]

You should take your snake in for a fecal. Some meds for parasites can do WONDERS for growth. Its very affordable.

Thank you for apologizing because I do feel you missed the horomone pill. LOL :D....CAV and others were only pointing out some real issues and trying to help...emotion and tone gets lost through type, and normally year old corns are on fuzzy at least, if not small adults. Every snake is different true, but a year is a bit long to be a on a pinky in the majority of cases. Get the fecal, keep temps warm and see how it turns out.

bmm

[bmm]

P.S. Pictures would be outstanding.

Good luck

bmm

[Taceas]

I think the oppressive heat over much of the country is taking its toll on more than farmer's crops. As I look back through the posts in the past two weeks or so, I notice a rise in short-tempered posts and smart-aleck replies.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I think the heat has a lot to do with people's attitudes towards others. Myself included. Living in an antique house with only two window AC units is driving me batty, not to mention short on tolerance. If you can believe it, I slept out on the front porch last night. Enduring skeeter bites is a good trade off for being cool in my opinion.

Anyway, now that we've got everything mostly cleared up, I agree that perhaps you should look at your temperatures and perhaps get a fecal sample into a veterinarian. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[CAV]

I'm catching up on posts after the holiday and I know this is dated, but I felt a need to reply.

Hevychevy,

I am sorry that you missed the light-hearted tone of my original post in it's entirely. It was never my intent to be accusatory in my post, suggesting that you were *intentionally* harming your pet. That is why I started the post with the phrase "I don't mean to sound overly harsh..." However, I felt it was in the best interest of the snake to question the reasoning behind your actions. As other members have pointed out already, these forums prevent the true intent and inflection from coming through. If you read through many of my posts you will find that I am a firm believer in not taking life too seriously. If you're not having fun with your hobby, what is the point?? But, humor is one of the most subjective of all human interactions. Please except my apologies for the misunderstanding. :)

Back to the issue:

I disagree completely with Taceas saying that to "diagnose a snake as being under fed without even seeing a picture is just ludicrous". A yearling corn, regardless of its' current size or genetic pre-disposition, requires more than a single pinky to maintain basic metabolic function over the long term. According to your post, you are the one determining when and how much the snake should eat. That is gravely different that the snake making those same decisions and being just another "non-eater". I understand your concern with overfeeding, but I feel you’re assuming additional risk by underfeeding as a part of your chosen solution. If the food item isn't being expelled then the length of time required for the lump to disappear is really immaterial. In closing, I can appreciate your life-long experience with animals, but is it really applicable to this aspect of reptile husbandry?? I hope this helps clear the air.....