Need help with Neurological Problem

[beckysdesigns]

So far I have had 3 2008 hatchlings that have developed a Neurological problem. I met yesterday with a long time breeder in the area who use to raise corn snakes, but now raises the larger ones. I went over everything with him from my feed schedules, husbandry and their environment and from looking at the snake he said she definitely has a neurological problem. He is going to do some research and call a zoo vet that he knows to see if he can figure out the problem.

The only thing that we could come up with is that a toxin has caused the problem. I have a very large master bedroom and up until last week I was keeping my snakes in my bedroom. ( I now have them in their own plastic shoebox with a few savings and water in a spare bedroom that I keep around 75 degrees) I had 6 male hatchlings in a 20 gallon tank with aspen shavings, heat pad, several hides and plants and water dish. I had the same setup for my 6 female hatchlings. I also have some adult snakes in their own individual tanks. All adults are fine, it just seemed to affect 2 of the males and 1 of the female hatchlings. All hatchlings at one time were feeding very well. I feed every weekend and clean out their cages with the Wipe Out sold for reptiles.

I pretty much live in my bedroom with my big screen TV and my computer next to my bed. I often use Fabreeze and candles. Perfume is the only other thing I spray from my bathroom.

Could electronics like TV or computers affect them or sprays? I'm open to all suggestions on how to save these guys.

Thanks!

[danielle]

Sprays can for sure though I think it would depend on the amount of spraying you do for it to cause permanent effects. What are the neurological symptoms they are experienceing? Stargazing maybe? I think the poor feeding could easily be attributed to cohabbing so I am glad they are all in their own homes now, but maybe see if this remedies anything before assuming neurological for sure. Without explaining what is off good advice may be hard to come by. Sprays, cleaners, and harsh things like that should never be used in a reptile room with the animals in there and cause respiratory issues though if I breathe in enough cleaner I get loopy, lol. I use wipe out as well but are you using 1 or 2? One is for the actual cage only and not water bowls and furniture use wipe out 2 for that. Do you spray it directly on or dilute it? Do you scrub it off and let the cages air dry or just wipe it down and return them? That stuff is potent and definitely requires that you air dry it for 1-2 hours for the actual cage and a whole day for any porous surfaces like water bowls and furniture. You can always use nolvasan which is less intrusive if you don't have spare cages while things are completely drying. I would describe these neurological symptoms better and make sure you stop spraying toxins in the air around your babies.

[beckysdesigns]

Thanks Danielle! I didn't realize that there were two Wipe Outs. My bottle say 1. On the weekends I would transfer each hatchling to a deli cup and feed them either live or f/t from there. While they were feeding I would clean the tank. I use to use the corn cob as the subtrate then recently moved to aspen shavings as they seem to like that better. With the corn cob I would just remove the soiled part. If I saw any unclean spots on the tank I would just spray the Wipe Out 1 on the tank and wipe it off with a papertowel. As far as the water dish and tank fixtures, I would just scrub them with a brush under warm water and return them to the tank.

The symptoms are mainly just being uncoordinated. They curl up and don't move in a strait manner. Their head is very wobbly and turns back toward their body. They also refuse to eat.

[danielle]

Sounds like stargazing but I think with this condition they eat well for the most part. Does it worsen when they are concentrating? I would stop with the wipe out for now and use vinegar and warm water, keep them all separate, and see if they regain normal function or at least begin to eat again. I hope these toxins will excrete themselves over time but some can live in tissues forever or outright kill brain tissues leading to permanent damage. Only time and no more heavy cleaners will really tell good luck!!

[beckysdesigns]

I thought with stargazing that they put their head up straight in the air. They have never done that. It lays back along their sides. I sure hope this can be cured!

[danielle]

Only an exotic herp vet could tell you for sure, but wipe out has huge warnings all over the bottle that state exactly how to safely use it. Hopefully no tissues were killed completely and will regenerate with time and for all I know it wasn't even caused by the wipe out to be honest. How long have they been refusing food? I am not even sure if a vet could give you an exact diagnosis I have never heard of MRI's and CAT scans for snakes and x-rays only show so much anyway. I guess they could sedate the snakes to get the proper scans done, but I doubt they have the proper equipment. Give it time and try to feed every week, make their food super warm, slit it all up, and try running it through tuna juices or chicken stock to make it even more enticing. I really hope they come around for you!!

[beckysdesigns]

Thanks! My breeder friend has the Lavender hatchling. He knows how to get food down them better than I. The other one is at a pet store. It developed the symptoms shortly after I sold it to them. My friend goes there every week and will help take care of that one too. The other hatchlings I just put down as it was just too difficult to watch anymore. It was the first one that came up with the symptoms. The other two have much milder cased than this one.

[carol]

I'd also stop spraying the Febreeze. :( I know many aerosols are bad for them.

[carol]

Sorry they didn't make it. :(

[beckysdesigns]

Thanks Carol! Don't worry, none of your snakes have been affected! I think I will move ALL my snakes out of my bedroom this weekend and put them in my "snake room" so that I can control their whole enviroment. I really do enjoy watching them at night though as they are moving around!

[beckysdesigns]

Thanks, only lost one so far... hopefully the other two will make it and no more will show up with the symptoms.

[bitsy]

Any kind of domestic cleaning or air freshening product - including scented candles and incense - is potentially toxic to snakes. It's also worth bearing in mind that Febreeze clings to fabrics and carries on working after spraying.

You can buy reptile-safe deodorisers called T-Rex BioFresh. Useful for an unnanounced parental visit (and why is it the snakes always choose to drop a large one just as the doorbell goes?).

Hopefully by getting your folks out of the affected environment, no further damage will occur. I'm not sure I'm hopeful of an improvement in their condition though. If it is neurological damage, then it's unlikely to be reversible.