Black tip of tail

[glynis]

Our young albino corn just turned up after 3 weeks on the run. Overall she looks good, is eating well and is alert. The odd thing is that the tip of her tail has turned black from the tip to about a quarter of an inch up.

Does anyone know what this could be? Could it be some kind of injury?

Thanks in advance.

[Nanci]

Does she have retained shed? At any rate, the blackened portion will almost surely fall off, and there isn't really anything you can do. I'd check for retained shed to make sure the damage doesn't continue further up.

[danielle]

Sounds like shed or an injury- if it starts to spread upward you'll have to take it off; otherwise it will just come off on its own.

[Asbit]

One of my snakes did not get injured, nor have retained shed but did have the tip of the tail for about a 1/4 of an inch that turned black and brittle. As well upon close inspection, the bottom of the tail looked slightly caved in almost like something that had been dehydrated and shriveled up.

Upon inspection and discussion with the reptile vet, he suggested it could have been caused by heat combined with low humidity. The vet stated that it is often seen in reptiles who have been in living conditions where the heat was to high and the humidity to low, this causes the tail to literally shrivel up from lack of moisture. There will be no way to save the tip if that is the case.

As the others have suggested, check very carefully, to see if there is any unshed skin on the tip of the tail. If there is then you will need to moisten it(warm not hot, wet paper towel or wash cloth and hold it onto the tail until the the skin is soft enough for it to either come off in the towels or for you to gently pull it off. If there is unshed skin and you leave it, more will build up, it will cut off the circulation and kill more of the tail, if that has not happened already.

So if it turns out there is no unshed skin then make sure you temps and humidity are correct. Hope this helps, along with the other great info the others posted.

Tisha

[bitsy]

The vet stated that it is often seen in reptiles who have been in living conditions where the heat was to high and the humidity to low, this causes the tail to literally shrivel up from lack of moisture.

I'm sorry but I've never heard anything like that before. Corn Snake tails don't shrivel and drop off just because they're not kept in the correct conditions.

However, high temps and low humidity can cause retained sheds on tails, and this sounds exactly like that. If it's not too late, set up a humid hide (plastic tub with damp substrate like kitchen paper, vermiculite or sphagnum moss) and see if this helps.

If the skin has been left for too long, it will have constricted the tail tip and as stated, it is likely to have died and will drop off. Your problem then will be to make sure that the exposed stump doesn't become infected.

[Asbit]

bitsy....I understand you confusion as I too had never heard of that happening except with retained shed as well, but with this snake, he had shed perfectly every month that we had him.

I keep detailed care logs on every snake in this house, it is a bit time consuming but I find it is worth it because if someone gets ill I have all the history and current information the herp vet and experts on the forums, could possibly want, complete with dates.

I must add that I did not think about the fact that maybe this tail shriveling was a "special thing specific to this snake" as I figure if the vet stated he has seen this often with high temps and low humidity, that it was probably not related to all of the other problems. But now that you mention your confusion, it is possible that maybe it was caused by him being a very sick snake from the day we got him and the vet felt it was something major possibly genetic, but it was not something they had seen before in snakes. The herp vet I use is from the teaching veterinary collage in my province, unfortunately I did not have the money for a necropsy, which the vet did want to do to try and figure out what caused his odd symptoms and eventual death.

Hopefully, this adds some clarity to my post, so in summation it is possible for a corn snakes tail to shrivel with out retained shed....whether or not it was solely due to higher temps and lower humidity (which the vet wanted for a week as trial to see if it could increase his metabolism to help with his symptoms) or whether it was solely due to his health issues, or a combination of both.

I simply wanted to post it as I know this is a place where we all go to learn about the care of our snakes and to learn new things as they are discovered. I realize that I can not give a definitive cause with out the necropsy, sorry.

Tisha

[bitsy]

the vet stated he has seen this often with high temps and low humidity

higher temps and lower humidity (which the vet wanted for a week as trial to see if it could increase his metabolism to help with his symptoms)

I'm sorry again, but I really would start taking what your vet says, with a large pinch of salt.

Changing husbandry practices for only a week would not be enough to effect any type of change, even if one were to believe that upping temps and lowering humidity could "increase his metabolism" (which again, I've never heard of). Snakes don't physically adapt to changes that fast.

I appreciate you posting your information, but I think it's worth bearing in mind that your experiences and the advice from your vet, don't reflect generally accepted knowledge.

And with due respect, it doesn't seem to have helped your snake, which died.

[bitsy]

Just to add - apologies again - I think we already established that your vet is quite seriously adrift on some rather basic points of Corn Snake husbandry in this thread?

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84647

I have no doubt that he is doing his absolute best for you and your animals and is giving advice and treatment in utter good faith. However, he may be over-confident and his success rate with your snakes is a little alarming. It may be worth holding back on repeating his advice to others.

[ForkedTung]

I'm sorry but I've never heard anything like that before. Corn Snake tails don't shrivel and drop off just because they're not kept in the correct conditions.

However, high temps and low humidity can cause retained sheds on tails, and this sounds exactly like that. If it's not too late, set up a humid hide (plastic tub with damp substrate like kitchen paper, vermiculite or sphagnum moss) and see if this helps.

If the skin has been left for too long, it will have constricted the tail tip and as stated, it is likely to have died and will drop off. Your problem then will be to make sure that the exposed stump doesn't become infected.
I completely agree...retained sheds can sometimes be very difficult to see. especially after the tail has turned color.

[Asbit]

Ok not trying to be defensive or rude here, but maybe we in Saskatchewan are unfortunate and do not actually have a decent herp vet to rely on, which sucks for us newer herpers.

BUT I do know about retained shed, I have also had snakes, not just corns, for over 3 years now. With every shed, I check from head to tail and look under a lighted magnifying glass to make sure that the shed is complete right to the very very smallest tip!! With the snake I mentioned I kept every single shed and every one of them were totally complete to the finest tip point.

As well I have gone into 2 pet stores in the next city to me and become very upset with them for not looking after the snakes they have there (corns, milks, kings, rats) and have set them straight about co-habing them, about some of them being so ill and still in a tank with others and yes about not watching for retained sheds. Between the two stores they had over 50 juvies and yearlings in and approx 35-40 of them had retained sheds, I pointed it out, I soaked the tails and got the sheds off, and pointed out which snakes it was probably to late to save the tails on. I am fairly new with some stuff, but I do know other things.

The only reason I posted the information about the dry brittle tail my snake had was because I understood that, all is not known about these beautiful creatures yet and that as oddities are found, it is helpful to post and others can learn about them. I did focus mainly on the idea of retained shed and simply put non-retained shed out there as another option. As the others have suggested, check very carefully, to see if there is any unshed skin on the tip of the tail. If there is then you will need to moisten it(warm not hot, wet paper towel or wash cloth and hold it onto the tail until the the skin is soft enough for it to either come off in the towels or for you to gently pull it off. If there is unshed skin and you leave it, more will build up, it will cut off the circulation and kill more of the tail, if that has not happened already.

So if it turns out there is no unshed skin then make sure you temps and humidity are correct. Hope this helps, along with the other great info the others posted.

As I have said in other threads and chats related to this snake, I have been on this forum extensively, spoke with several reputable breeders and even Kathy Love, looking for help, any ideas or thoughts as to what may be wrong with ISIS and the two general trains of thought I got were " unsure, have never really heard of those things happening with a corn before, but I will say, that I don't really think he will make it" and the other train of thought was " it sounds most likely like something genetically neurological and most likely the snake is suffering and will not make it, no matter what the vet tries".

So feel what you wish, but I KNOW my snake's tail did not dry up and fall off due to retained shed. I honestly can not say without a doubt what did cause it. The more time I am a member of this forum though, the more I and another Saskatchewan member start to question the ability of the herp vet we have available to us, unfortunately at this point in time he literally seems to be the only one in the province. Even if there was another one in this province, it would likely be in the only other major center 4 hours away, not saying I would not ever use it, but it would be hard to do.

Again I am not trying to be rude or overly defensive, I am just slightly upset that someone who never saw my snake and never spent the over $500 to try and save it's live not to mention the countless hours of thorough care and research, would feel they had the right to tell me that a very specific thing was wrong, that I made very sure was not.

Tisha

[ForkedTung]

I don't see any reason for you to be "slightly upset" with any of the responses here.
You posted this query:
Does anyone know what this could be? Could it be some kind of injury?


Members offered suggestions based upon their experience. We we're just trying to help you; Not definitively diagnose the problem. If you don't agree with any of the responses, skip them and move on...no harm no foul.
Best of luck.
Kyle

[Asbit]

Kyle I got slightly upset because I was not the one asking for help, Glynis was. I have asked for help before and for example, have been told the vet was not very good and not gotten offended, just took it under advisement and considered it.

I was one of those Members offered suggestions based upon their experience and got told by Bitsy in summation I'm sorry but I've never heard anything like that before. Corn Snake tails don't shrivel and drop off just because they're not kept in the correct conditions. and that I think we already established that your vet is quite seriously adrift on some rather basic points of Corn Snake husbandryso in the future becausehe may be over-confident and his success rate with your snakes is a little alarming. It may be worth holding back on repeating his advice to others.

As well some of the comments were made without paying close attention to what I actually wrote were the facts, with my snake.

In the end, it bothered me the most because I have felt that this forum was about corn snake keepers helping each other out and learning new stuff and not about being judgemental toward people, just because something they have experienced happens to be something that has not been experienced by someone else.

I apologize to Glynis all I tried to do was be one of those members who offered another ides to possibly look at IF SHE FOUND NO RETAINED SHED. I had no intention of hijacking this thread. I will leave it at that.

Tisha

[ForkedTung]

I apologize Tisha and Glynis.

[deadheadmamma4]

ok so i need to keep the tail wet if there is no shed should i pull the black off or let it fall off does he need anti biotics im very worry abought mine he was out for 2 months inside or out but we found him outside.

[Asbit]

if you can see any retained shed on the tail tip, then moisten the tail tip and gently rub off the retained shed. An easy way to do it is to, wet a wash cloth and they hold it onto the tail for a few minutes, then rub gently to take off the retained shed.

Either way, whether or not there is retained shed, do not take the black tip off, it will fall off on its own, or come off with a good shed. Then you can just put regular polysporin, no analgesic(freezing agent) in it, on the stump. Once the tip falls off, take your aspen/substrate out of the snakes house and then only have paper towel in the house, so that nothing gets into the open wound. Just dab a small amount of the polysporin on the stump daily until it heals over. Then you may stop applying it and use your regular substrate/aspen again.

Just to confirm, how much of his tail tip is black 1/4 inch, 1/2 inch, inch etc.? Most likely will not need to give him antibiotics.