HELP!!!

[haydnrobinson]

I know that there's a lot of VERY similar threads to this but we're quite worried about the snake and wanted some individual advice for him.

Anyway we bought the snake 2 weeks and 1 day ago from a breeder, he hatched June 09, we saw his mum and dad and brothers and sisters and they were all fine. He was fed the night before we brought him home and he was fine, settled in ok and is now a very active and lively snake at night times and even sometimes during the day. He measures approx. 11 inches long and has definitely grown since we got him, not sure about his weight.

The trouble is we can't get him to eat. The breeder (and a book we have by Bill and Kathy Love) recommended to feed him in one week, so the friday after we got him we put him in a little box the breeder provided that she fed him in. He seemed quite worried and wanted to get out but we put the mouse in anyway- after 2 hours he was just cowering in the corner so we let him back into his tank. As recommended by the book we didn't touch him for 3 days and then tried again, in a bigger box, and tried using tweezers to coax him and make him notice the mouse, and then left him overnight. He wouldn't snap at the mouse. In the morning the mouse was still there. We tried this again the same way 3 days later. The 1st time we put kitchen roll on the bottom and his cork hide in there, the 2nd time just the kitchen roll. Then we tried again 3 days later in his cage, we put the mouse on a piece of kitchen roll so it wouldn't stick to the substrate. We left it overnight near his hide, again he didn't eat it. In fact he curled up inside the folded up kitchen roll underneath the mouse! Before we put the mouse in we left it warm next to the cage so he could smell it for about 15 mins, and also misted the cage with lukewarm water as listed in the book to do.

The temperatures are all fine. We know we should try braining the mouse, offering just the head, scenting etc... just didn't know what to do first and how and when.

Any help would be much appreciated, his belly is becoming a little soft now which the book warns us to look out for. I just don't understand why he's not eating when we know he's eaten once, we saw the lump of the mouse inside him! (we're using frozen pinkies by the way)

Thanks

[EmJagsz]

It sounds like you're doing all the right things, so it confuses me when you say that he isn't eating... Hmm.. How are you thawing the mice?

[RobbiesCornField]

There's all sorts of tricks you can try. Try dipping them in tuna juice, rub a little bit of chicken on them, even try a live pinky.

[diamondlil]

Firstly, absolutley make sure your temperatures are right, if you haven't got a digital thermometer, Maplins do a good one for @£20. Don't handle or disturb the snake for at least a week and only try feeding every 7 days or so. Tryng too often can just condition the snake to refuse and cause more stress for it (and for you!)

[Eli173]

If it's refusing braining and scenting tricks try switching things up with no scent. Wash the pinky with Ivory soap, hot water and some light scrubbing with your finger. Be sure you rinse well and I also suggest leaving them in the dark while they eat. I had two that refused everything until I tried the Ivory soap trick. If they don't eat after half an hour I wash it again and they have now eaten twice in a row by the second washing. Hope that helps and good luck!

[Maize411]

Try putting the baby in a brown paper bag with the pinkie..you can also try cutting small slits into the pinkie with a knife so the blood can coax the snake to want to eat..or you could try putting him in a small deli cup (with holes punched) and put the pinkie in with him, then put the deli cup back in his viv. So he is in familiar surroundings and scents..best of luck to you..

[haydnrobinson]

Hey everyone, thanks for your tips etc. We've spoken to the breeder too, and from what everyone's said have decided to wait a while and then try braining a pinky.
We've also been advised to put the brained pinky on some kitchen towel on a heat mat with a plastic tub over it upside down with a hole in the bottom, then after 15 mins introduce the snake and let it sniff and it should want to go in- then switch off the heat mat and fill the hole with a damp towel and in 15 mins the mouse should be gone. What does everyone think to that idea?
We were also wondering, how long will it be until the snake's in danger from not feeding? We obviously don't want to get to that point. It's still pretty strong but think it's loosing some muscle tone around its stomach. This friday will be 3 weeks since it last ate.

[Nanci]

How big is the container you are trying to feed in? It should be no larger than a margerine cup.

How hot are you getting the pink? It should be as hot as your tap water will go.

I'd try one or both of these two things first: Feed at dusk, especially if the snake is already out. Thaw the pink in very hot water and either cut about four slits in its back with a fingernail scissors or wash it with Ivory or Dawn dish soap and rinse, or wash and then slit. Put the very hot pink in the container, cover with a dish towel, don't peek for an hour. If the snake hasn't eaten, I'd reheat the pink and put the container in the snake's viv overnight, covered, in the middle, not on the UTH.

I think the elaborate set-up the breeder is suggesting sounds like grounds for an escape.

[tom e]

When I used to have trouble in my earlier days of snake keeping, I think it was my own fussing around with them that was scaring the snake most. I used to just watch and worry. The snake was probably just wishing the big monster would go away so he could eat already, lol.

I would simply try just before his room gets dark in the evening-thawing a pinky in very warm water, doing one slit down the back, putting it in a toilet paper roll or other hide, and then placing the hide in his tank.
Don't look back till morning.
If it doesn't work then try again in a week.
The two things I would RE-look at (husbandry wise) are:

1. the temps, they aren't perfect unless you are seeing a reading on a thermometer with a probe..
and 2. Make sure he has a abundence of hides that make him feel secure. If he's too scared to hunt, he won't eat.

Finally, how big is his tank? Sometimes a tiny snake in a BIG viv is afraid to explore too. They like secure small spaces..

[Caryl]

I know it's worrisome when one won't eat. Try to relax a bit, though. According to your first post, he ate just over two weeks ago. A healthy baby can go for a month with no meal and be fine. Most of the suggestions you're getting are good, but I'd wouldn't personally try the dish-towel-heat-mat-enticing-scent thing. That sounds like a lot of confusion for a baby who's already confused about what to do with food.

After you verify your temps, leave the baby completely alone for 2-3 days. NO handling, no checking on him, no interaction. Then try one of the feeding suggestions like slitting or braining with the snake in a small space like a paper bag or a margarine cup. You can put the pinky in there first, then the snake; put the container in the snake's viv to prevent escapes, and LEAVE. Don't even go in the room for 2-3 hours, or overnight if possible.

If the baby ate before, it will eat again. Chin up, hang tough, we're pulling for you!

[Caryl]

One more thought - if the baby is going into a shedding cycle, s/he may have no interest in eating.

[haydnrobinson]

Thanks everyone. We last tried to feed little Salvador on Saturday night, so we're gonna leave it until tomorrow (Tuesday). Gonna try braining the mouse and putting Salvador in a pot with it. Should the lid of the pot be on even if the pot is put inside the viv? I thought it would need to be so he only concentrates on the mouse, just thought we'd check first though. We'll let you all know how it goes! :) Thanks again for the help. Hope it works!

[haydnrobinson]

One more thought - if the baby is going into a shedding cycle, s/he may have no interest in eating.

I thought that too but the colours aren't looking dull and his eyes seem fine. We've tried to not handle him but he does come out at night so we've been trying to look at him then through the viv.

Anyway we tried feeding him last night again, we brained the pinky and put it in a small box and then put the snake in, sealed it and left it in his tank. By morning he was just curled up and hadn't eaten the pinky. Once again it had been moved though. We're moving him to my house (he was at my girlfriends) where he can actually have a room to himself- there's no spare rooms here to leave him quiet properly overnight. Hopefully that will help. When does everyone think we should try again? And shall we try the same thing? Getting very worried now :(

[diamondlil]

Please wait at least a week without any disturbance at all. Trying too often can condition the snake to refuse.

[haydnrobinson]

Ok thank you diamondlil, we'll do that. I thought it'd be a while since we moved him. And we'll try the braining again. Will he be ok to wait another week? It'll take him up to 3 weeks and 4 days since he last fed if we leave it a week.

[Caryl]

That will be okay. I know it seems like a LONG time, but remember that his metabolism only works at about 1/5 the rate of yours. The move may also encourage him to eat next time you offer. There are a lot of stories out there about snakes who suddenly started feeding after a move. Perhaps the jouncing stirs up digestive juices, or something.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Do try not to worry too much. I had one last summer go 31 days without a meal, but once he started feeding for me he has never refused again.

[haydnrobinson]

That will be okay. I know it seems like a LONG time, but remember that his metabolism only works at about 1/5 the rate of yours. The move may also encourage him to eat next time you offer. There are a lot of stories out there about snakes who suddenly started feeding after a move. Perhaps the jouncing stirs up digestive juices, or something.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Do try not to worry too much. I had one last summer go 31 days without a meal, but once he started feeding for me he has never refused again.

Thanks Caryl :) Yeah we thought the move might help, we've got the comprehensive guide by kathy and bill love and it said so inside the book. Gonna try again on Tuesday anyway as that will be a week since we last tried. Will keep you posted! Thank you all for all the help and interest, it's really helped us keep confident that Salvador will be ok! :)

[haydnrobinson]

Hey everyone, thank you for all the help and everything. Good news- Salvador ate last night! We put him in a small box with holes that the breeder gave us that already had the pinky in, which we'd washed and brained, and put the lid on the box and left the box inside his viv. Not sure when he ate because we covered the viv up with a towel, switched the light off in the room and didn't come back 'til morning. But when we checked this morning the mouse was all gone :) Maybe the move did him good. We're gonna keep him in this house now. And we're only gonna disturb him for a while to change his water, not gonna handle or anything; especially not touch him for the next 3 days whilst he digests. Temps are good too so hopefully he should be able to digest and enjoy his meal :)
When is it recommended to feed him again? The book we mentioned before said 5-10 days, so we were thinking 5 as he hasn't eaten in such a long time... is that wise?
Again thank you for all your help everyone, you kept us calm and gave us a lot of brilliant advice which we are so grateful for :D

[Nanci]

I feed snakes every five days, until they weigh 200 grams. Some people feed every seven days. Ten days is too long to go, for a baby.

[haydnrobinson]

Thanks Nanci, I think we'll try after 5 days then but if he refuses then it's just obviously too soon. Until last night he hadn't eaten for 23 days so he should be pretty hungry!

[Stumpy]

I fed mine at varying intervals, when he was younger I would feed him between 5 and 7 days apart , as in the wild they would not always be successful.
My corn went for 3 months without eating at the beginning of the year, I got him started again by feeding a live mouse, he took 5 -6 attempts to catch it then his instinct took over and he has started eating normally again.

[diamondlil]

Hey everyone, thank you for all the help and everything. Good news- Salvador ate last night! We put him in a small box with holes that the breeder gave us that already had the pinky in, which we'd washed and brained, and put the lid on the box and left the box inside his viv. Not sure when he ate because we covered the viv up with a towel, switched the light off in the room and didn't come back 'til morning. But when we checked this morning the mouse was all gone :) Maybe the move did him good. We're gonna keep him in this house now. And we're only gonna disturb him for a while to change his water, not gonna handle or anything; especially not touch him for the next 3 days whilst he digests. Temps are good too so hopefully he should be able to digest and enjoy his meal :)
When is it recommended to feed him again? The book we mentioned before said 5-10 days, so we were thinking 5 as he hasn't eaten in such a long time... is that wise?
Again thank you for all your help everyone, you kept us calm and gave us a lot of brilliant advice which we are so grateful for :D
:dancer::dancer::dancer::dancer::dancer::dancer::d ancer::dancer:
That's brilliant! Congratulations!

[Caryl]

Awesome!!!!! I'm so glad he ate at last!!!

Yes, I'd go with the 5 day intervals. That's the interval I always follow with babies who are eating one pinky per meal.

Again, congratulations!!!!!