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Bad news :(...what do you think??

jmksnakes
07-25-2009, 12:00 AM
Hey there...during feeding tonight I had a grim discovery. One of my female 07 mots has developed quite an odd growth. Of course before tonight, I've never noticed anything odd. She has never been the best of feeders for me, but had finally started getting some weight on her.

Notice the strange "crease" in her side...and even her ventral scales are quite random ONLY where this abnormality is. Any thoughts...cancer??

Asbit
07-25-2009, 01:12 AM
Sorry to see that John, I can not be of any help, but I am hoping the best for her and will follow the thread, as I am interested to learn about your discovery and really hope all turns out ok for her...from what I can see of her she sure is pretty!!

psychoprimate84
07-25-2009, 09:56 AM
Looks like something that I would show a vet.

jmksnakes
07-25-2009, 10:05 AM
Looks like something that I would show a vet.

Yep...I have a personal friend who happens to be a herp vet (it's not what you know, but who you know!)...and was planning on calling him today.

RobbiesCornField
07-25-2009, 10:17 AM
That would definitely warrant a vet visit.

Talinea
07-25-2009, 12:30 PM
hi!
Please keep us updated - I happen to own a 07 ghost stripe which also has odd ventral scales - but in her case she shows them since she was a hatchling...
The scales look like your corn's, some parting in the middle or "melting" together... My ghost never had issues with it, only "ugly" looks :duck:

Do you know if she developed these aberrant ventral scales recently or could it be possible that she was like that all her life and you just didn't notice?

Perhaps the odd shaped scales just constrict/narrow down the growth of fat deposits on this spot? You said she's putting on weight finally - perhaps the folds were always there and got visible now she puts some mass on?

Just a thought :)

jmksnakes
07-25-2009, 01:20 PM
hi!
Please keep us updated -
Do you know if she developed these aberrant ventral scales recently or could it be possible that she was like that all her life and you just didn't notice?

Perhaps the odd shaped scales just constrict/narrow down the growth of fat deposits on this spot? You said she's putting on weight finally - perhaps the folds were always there and got visible now she puts some mass on?

Just a thought :)

Thanks, I'll definitly keep us posted. I called my vet buddy and got his voice mail.
I never have paid attention to her ventral scale layout before this....so who knows if it's always been there?
And yea she's put on weight in the past 6 months but she's always had good structure, and was never "skinny"...

MegF.
07-31-2009, 10:06 AM
It almost looks like "hips" on a fat female. If she had abberant ventral scales before and has put on weight, then the fat pockets might be pulling the skin in there.

Asbit
08-01-2009, 03:12 AM
Any updates yet??

jmksnakes
08-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Thanks for checkin'! She shed a couple of days ago, and I've left two messages for my vet friend...he must be out of town :(

northwestcorns
08-01-2009, 06:44 PM
John

I'm not a vet, but I have had a couple of experiences with these symptoms and both times it was cryptosporidium. It cost me almost $1000 and then I had my whole collection tested (they were negative) and then tested again 6 mos later (still negative).
I hope that it isn't, it's a grim disease. But make sure you are practicing good hygeine and not sharing tanks/food items/or handling them without disinfecting between.

Shelley

jmksnakes
08-02-2009, 11:37 PM
Wow, thanks for the info...I'll look into that. Is it a fatal disease?

MegF.
08-03-2009, 04:58 AM
Crypto is generally a fatal disease. It's marked by abscess type swellings, diarrhea and regurgitation. The cryptosporidium itself is very resistant to most disinfecting methods. Heat sterilization seems to be the only thing that will kill it. I hope that's not what your snake has. If she hasn't had any other issues then I suspect it might be something more benign. Let us know what the vet finds.

northwestcorns
08-03-2009, 12:41 PM
Both of my experiences with this were pretty much the same. The snakes were always a little smaller than others, they had good appetites, but started occasionally regurgitating. They continued to shed on schedule and stay active. With the first one, I was convinced that I had let him get too cold after eating, so I raised the temps in the cage. He did well for a while and it was hit or miss, he'd either keep his food down or regurgitate it. I didn't think it was a problem for a while until one day I walked in and saw a big lump in his abdomen. I thought my hubby had fed him, but when I asked he said he didn't. I thought it was a tumor. This went on for about six months. Then one day I came in and there was bloody stool in the tank and he was just not looking right. I took him to the vet who diagnosed him clinically with Crypto and then I had him put down.
Five months later, I bought a beautiful Anery female. She was already an adult and a joy to handle. The guy I got her from said that she liked to eat small meals and that she had never gotten to a breeding weight, but that she would be perfect for a pet. I fed her small mice and she would occasionally regurg them. I gradually decreased the size of her mice and I was so upset when she even started regurging tiny pinkies. I took her to the vet. HE found the lump in her abdomen this time. I felt terrible because my snake wanted to eat so badly and she was starving right in front of me. I had her put down to save her from starvation. I thought it was the kindest thing I could do. I had a necroscopy done on her and the results came back positive for crypto. I had the rest of my snakes checked just in case. And then had it all done all over again 6 mos later. They were all clean and had never had contact with either of the others. The test is done with a fresh fecal sample, taken to the vet within 24 hours.

I always practice good hand hygiene between snakes. The spores can be killed with a heavy bleach solution soaking for 24 hours (filled the tank with 1 cup of bleach and the rest of the way with water and then filled the tub it was in). 24 hours later I drained them and then let them dry in the sun. I never share tanks unless I have done what I just stated. I never take a food item from one tank and put it into another one. These are the ways that crypto spreads. It is shed through the feces and the intestinal mucosa, which is the "weird looking" stools that the snakes have.

Okay, this was way too long of a story, but I wanted to share it just in case it could help someone and save them some heartache. One snake got a lump, the other was never visible. The first snake didn't get "weird stools" until the end. The second had them all along, but they were just pale and I didn't spend too much time looking at them. Either way, if one of my snakes regurgitates for some reason, I start watching them closely and if they do it again, I'm off to the vet pronto!

jmksnakes
08-03-2009, 02:27 PM
Thanks a bunch again...shed hasn't ever regurged to this point and thus far her stools have been normal. I offered her food last night and she gladly took it. Now she has two lumps in her! :( LOL

Dexter's
08-03-2009, 02:54 PM
Check this video out, http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-care-for-corn-snakes
in 3:30 more or less they show an example of corn snake in obesity. Itmight be that. Maybe you are over feeding it?

I also found this,

http://www.aboutsnakes.com/corn_snakes/cornsnakecare.html

Feeding your corn snake is very easy indeed and is fully covered in our free snakes ebook but young hatchling corn snakes are fed twice a week on pinkies.

As they grow, slowly increase the number of pinkies until they'll happily take 2 or 3 at a feeding.

Then move onto just one fuzzy at a time and as they grow again, increase the food to 2 fuzzies per feed.

If you've spent time watching your snake as I have suggested, you'll learn to be able to spot feeding behaviour. You'll be able to spot a snake that is hungry and is actively searching the cage for food when none is present, so consider increasing the volume diven in your corn snake care regime.

On the other hand, a snake that takes little interest in it's food and waits for more than 5-10 minutes when you provide food before digging in really isn't interested and so you should look at reducing the amount of food provided to prevent obesity.

Then when your corn snake is happily taking 2 fuzzies it's safe to move up to an adult mouse, once a week.

Beware you're not providing food that too large to be safely consumed and digested, following the guidelines in the free ebook.



I guess they are just prone to obesity.
But please, if this is not it, please let us know.
Goodluck!

jmksnakes
08-03-2009, 03:17 PM
She isn't overfed...all my collection is fed once a week and it's an appropriate sized meal. And she is one of least eager feeders...and I do practice good hygiene so fingers crossed that if it's crypto, she's the only one infected! I have left a couple of messages for my buddy, and sent him an e-mail this morning.

Nanci
08-03-2009, 03:18 PM
If she had crypto, you'd feel her stomach as a swollen lump. Your snake looks like the swelling is very distal. My first thought was "hips" too.

jmksnakes
08-03-2009, 04:10 PM
If she had crypto, you'd feel her stomach as a swollen lump. Your snake looks like the swelling is very distal. My first thought was "hips" too.

Yea it's a thought...I've never had a corn with "hips", I've just seen photos. But aren't hips normally seen in older corns after having several clutches (she's just 2 years old), and isn't it normally seen immediately above the cloaca??? These lumps start about 6 inches above the cloaca and ends well before the cloaca.