Panicking!!!!!-Skin Split!

[northwestcorns]

Please look at these pics and tell me what to do.

I posted pics of Jewel a couple of days ago. Here is the history again

Started looking really dry. Shed the other day, but had trouble. I had to put her in a box with wet paper towels and help with head and tail skin. She had been soaking in the water bowl for a couple of weeks, I was misting the cage twice/day.

She still looked like she had to shed. I brought her in the main house and put her into a clean box with fresh aspen, a hide, water and heat kept at 78 degrees. She ate a small pinky the other day and I was about to feed her again today. She was doing a weird jumpy thing.

I took her out to look at her. She started spazzing out and like she was having a seizure (it was probably pain). She flipped out of my hand onto the counter and I saw this. Then she went back into the aspen and got that stuck all over the raw flesh. I put her into lukewarm water in a sterile container to clean her. I then put her into a sterilized box with paper towels only for substrate and a clean fresh water bowl.

Do I put bacitracin on this? What do I do?

The first pic is obviously NOW!

The other two are the ones I posted the other day.

[ratsncorns]

I would be making a vet appt ASAP. That looks quite painful. I have never seen such a thing before!

[northwestcorns]

The vet isn't open until Monday and the Emergency Vet here doesn't DO reptiles!!!

[ratsncorns]

The only thing I can think of doing in the meantime, is keeping the tub clean and applying some neosporin or other antibiotic ointment on the raw parts. Hope someone else will jump in and give other advice.

[Nanci]

Well, it looks like you can still see pattern, so it must not be all the way through all the thicknesses of the skin down to the meat...

[northwestcorns]

I'm running up to Walgreens to get Neosporin Spray. It is definitely to the meat. There is no visible skin or pattern left, just the capillaries and moist pink skin.

[diamondlil]

I still think it's due to scale rot. The humidity was far too high.

Started looking really dry. Shed the other day, but had trouble. I had to put her in a box with wet paper towels and help with head and tail skin. She had been soaking in the water bowl for a couple of weeks, I was misting the cage twice/day.

[danielle]

Thats not a heat rock right? If it is it can cause burns, but other than that neosporin, papertowels, and a water bowl she can't soak in is a good idea.

[Jenstar]

Poor snake. I hope you can at least get her to the vet on monday. It's sooo weird it looks like she has almost been skinned. :(

[cornspot]

To the vet asap. in the meantime, I think I'd keep it clean and moist by using a barely damp papertowel. I would think a dry paper towel would just wick away her body's hydration. Not sure about Neosporin. if you do decide to use it, be sure it is the kind with no pain-killer. I have read that the analgesic they use is toxic to herps.

[ratsncorns]

If it is scale rot (I agree with Janine), you should keep her on paper towels, and no water dish in the cage, and keep it at a low humidity. If its too humid, it could get worse. Sounds like that if it is scale rot, should heal in a few weeks, but definitely still take her to a vet. Good luck!

[MinLynn]

Wow! I've never seen something like that before other than Lennycorn's Lenny. That's what it reminds me off. A burn of some kind. I think the Neosporin spray contains the pain killer in it so check that before you buy it. You don't want the pain killer.

[Lennycorn]

I'm lost..... again!!
Wouldn't scale rot be more likely on the belly??
I never encountered it so far so I wouldn't know. Just seem odd it on the top. What's your heat source??

I would but it on dry paper towels and apply Neosporin.
More/better pictures would help too.
Poor thing, with the "jumping", it's in pain I would think.

[vetusvates]

I may be totally wrong, but I seem to remember an overhead bulb, as opposed to a UTH........

EDIT : Sorry, Shelley, I must be thinking about another thread.

Mindy, I agree, I've never seen anything like that except on Lenny's escaped and burned snake.

[Lennycorn]

Just read the other post and you stated you misted daily?? but I'm not sure if that meant only during the shed cycle or not.
So ... any way I would treat as stated above til we can figure this out.

[northwestcorns]

OK. I saturated her with the Neosporin and I barely dampened the paper towels. She has a very small water bowl that she can't fit in. I got the spray stuff because I thought that me dragging anything across her back to apply cream or ointment would be horrible.

Lennycorn asked if she was on a heat rock, no. I've never used one.

It DOES look like a burn though. I had a UVA/UVB light on her tank for a few weeks and there was a period where all of the lights in my snake house stayed on 24/7 for about 10 days due to the temps here in Seattle and while I tried to figure out how to properly heat them. This is when she was staying in her bowl. I'm wondering if she got a "sunburn" like people do who lie in the pool and forget about their back?

No one else is showing any ill effects, but they didn't have the UVA/UVB light on their cages.

[northwestcorns]

I forgot to answer. The misting started when I noticed her going blue.

Another quick update. I had thawed out a couple of pinkies for her prior to this happening. Just to see if she would eat, I put the pinkies in with her. She ate them immediately. I coated one of them with a vitamin powder.

[vetusvates]

It DOES look like a burn though. I had a UVA/UVB light on her tank for a few weeks and there was a period where all of the lights in my snake house stayed on 24/7 for about 10 days due to the temps here in Seattle and while I tried to figure out how to properly heat them. This is when she was staying in her bowl. I'm wondering if she got a "sunburn" like people do who lie in the pool and forget about their back?

No one else is showing any ill effects, but they didn't have the UVA/UVB light on their cages.
Shelley, I'm not being critical or anything, but I think we have our answer here. What did not look right to you....was her skin between the initial injury of the light above her and the time it took it to completely die and slough off.
Corn snakes are secretive and have evolved to not need light, often living beneath bark, leaves, and soil.

Lenny had an escaped snake that had a similarly bad looking injury. He should be able to help you a lot.
If/when you take your snake to the vet, be sure to give him all the facts.

[northwestcorns]

I know. I usually keep my lights on a timer and they usually aren't that kind. But I didn't have one for her tank and that was the last one available. Without it, the temps were in the 50s in the snake house. There aren't any windows so I have all of them on a timer now. I had a heater installed in the house and keep the temp at 75 degrees. The tanks all have an 80-85 degree side and an UTH. None of the other guys are showing any ill effects.

Lenny, your snake that got the burn, did he recover and does he shed normally now?

[Lennycorn]

You should check the temps that the light can produce. Are you using anything to read them (temps) with??
You might want to switch to a UTH with the proper set up.
I tend to think it a burn now.
Mine ate throughout the healing process, heck he still healing. So your good there. Forget about damping the paper towel (bedding). Just spray Neosporin every other day on him and limit the handling for a WHILE.
After a month or so you might see flaking or....shedding of skin of the affected area, in between "normal" sheds. This is ...good.

He's going to get better..it's just going to take awhile.

[northwestcorns]

All of my tanks are set up with thermostats and UTH are the heat source in all of them. Like I said, this was a "fix" due to being in the "just moved in and having to get set up" process. The movers hadn't delivered the tanks with the UTH's yet.

The building is cycling nicely now. Everyone else looks great and they're all eating well.

This is the first time anything like this has happened in 17 years of snake keeping. I feel terrible. I hope you're right Lenny and that she does well. It's a big injury.

[Lennycorn]

Lenny, your snake that got the burn, did he recover and does he shed normally now?


Well. he's not heal all the way but he is shedding normally for his condition.
His scales and red amel color are coming back.

Your snake might get worse before he get better. The "burn" area might get/look worse at the next shed. He might bleed a little. Mine did. I started to freak out but when I saw a scab starting to heal over it. I knew it was going to be fine. I keep him on paper towels till all the scabs were gone. You need to keep an eye on him for infection. If you see anything. Get him to a Vet. Just treat him with that spray. You'll be fine.

[northwestcorns]

Okay. Jewel made it through the night. I sprayed her again this morning. Then I cleaned out her water bowl and poured fresh water into it right next to her head. She went and started drinking and she drank forever!

I DID find that she only ate one of the pinkies yesterday. The other one she hid under a fold of paper towel. However, I'm hoping that eating and drinking water (doctored with an electrolyte solution) will keep her strong enough to get through this.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I'll let you know as things develop.

[VickyChaiTea]

Wow, yikes! I don't have any sort of advice to add, sorry.

But I'd like to know what exactly happened to do this. I can't think of anything aside from a burn like everyone mentioned... but it still seems so odd! Keep us updated, and tell us how the vet trip goes.

[medusacoils]

Lenny is a good source of info for burns and injuries! Listen to him.

I had a snake that had a serious wound on her side. She was gravid and laid, ta boot. What I was told by the vet my snake saw, was to keep the injury dry, use white paper or paper towels, change them often, small water dish with clean water and smaller meals, if she eats.

I'm sure she will be fine!

Good Luck

Wayne

[northwestcorns]

Saw the vet today. He said I was doing all of the right things. Also said he hadn't seen anything this bad. It looks like she may lose the rest of the skin up her neck and onto her head. As deep as this went, I'm afraid that she may lose her eyes if that happens. If she loses her eyes, I have already decided I will put her down. I just can't put any animal through that. I'll keep everyone posted.

Shelley

[Lennycorn]

Shelley

From the picture you posted I don't thinks it will go that far and I hope you won't have to go that route.

Like I said, it got worse at first with my snake. It affected area grew but not not that much.

Dose your snake react to movement around him. Cause I would think the eyes would be damage now if you think she will loose her eyes.

I just don't think it will happen.

I feel sad for you, I know what you are going through.
But believe me...it will be better.

Take care
Lenny

[MinLynn]

I'm agreeing with Lennycorn on this one. If there were damage to the eyes I think you'd notice it already. Even if more skin comes off it doesn't have to mean she'll lose her eyes. Keep your hopes up! If you haven't seen Lenny's thread yet,take a look at it just to give your spirits a lift! It's amazing just how resilient these snakes can be!

[northwestcorns]

Jewel has vision as far as i can see. My concern is that when the skin comes off of her head, her eye caps may come off as well. Since the rest of the skin came off full-thickness, her eyes may then be affected.

Jewel pooped today. There was a LOT of fluid. I was wondering if I should be concerned about so much un-absorbed fluid. I've been keeping the container spotless, keeping her wound moist with the neosporin spray, and giving her fresh water every morning. She must be drinking the water to have so much fluid in her poop. OR I'm obsessing over everything.

[haydnrobinson]

Good luck with this and please keep us updated, I hope everything goes well for you and your snake. My thoughts are with you! :)

[ceduke]

How is Jewel doing?

[northwestcorns]

Jewel is alive. I'm calling her condition-guarded. I have been applying the Neosporin spray every day. I also got some Baytril from my vet and I've been giving her that, keeping her box clean and spotless, and helping her stay hydrated by tube-feeding her water with electrolytes. She hasn't eaten again and I'm wondering if i should force-feed her. She keeps doing a twitchy thing, the same thing she was doing right before her skin came off. She seems extremely uncomfortable. I am keeping the temp in her box at 80-95 degrees, depending on which end she's in. I don't know what else to do. Anyone got any other suggestions?

[dionythicus]

What vet did you take her to? Dr Adolph Maas in Kirkland is THE exotic vet to see. He's worth the drive if you live further out.

At some point you may need to consider euthanasia if this doesn't improve. The fact that she's gone off feed and makes these types of body movements tells me that she probably is in pain. You have to decide what's best for her.

I hope she pulls through, but it seems like she's suffering.

[crackerhead]

What exactly did the vet say this condition was? Burn, fungal, bacterial, combo of things? That would help determine the best course of treatment as well as prevention of future outbreaks. I've treated burns like the one's sustained by Lenny's snake before. They look terrible for what seems like forever but they get better with each shed. Bacterial sloughing is a whole different ball of wax and far more worrisome. A firm diagnosis might help you with the more difficult decisions you might have to face. I hope it doesn't come to that though. Best wishes.
Terri

[MinLynn]

The 95 degree thing doesn't sound right to me! That sounds waaaay too high,especially if you are dealing with a burn. Know how it feels when you get a bad sunburn and then you go out into the heat and how bad that hurts? I'm worried about your baby. I hope she pulls through,but like crackerhead said it depends on what's caused this. Did your vet tell you?

[Nanci]

I don't think I'd even bother feeding her till she's had at least one shed. She can go a LONG time.

[armbarvictim]

My advice would be not to "force feed" her and crank down that heat a little bit, as it sounds quite high for a snake who to me appears to have cracked skin from being too dry.

Here in canada, in the winter time my skin gets extremely dry due to the low humidity and a plethora of other variables. whenever i take a shower or bath and my skin is given time to dry out it cracks very very bad on my feet and hands.

if you misted your tank and the snake was in the bath, if the viv had some time to dry out and lost a lot of moisture then I could see this happening.

Now I am not a snake, but when my skin cracks I rub vaseline on it and then wrap my feet with a safeway bag. Don't do this to your snake obviously but, I would keep applying the medicine you have and keep her moist with a lower temp in the viv, dont give the snake a chance to dry out like that again. also if you haven't already done so I would replace the aspen bedding for something flat and soft like astro turf or carpet or even the reptile carpet.


If the snake was bathing alot it may have been parasites but I have never seen reptile parasites do that kind of damage before.



Anyhow good luck to you and do whats in the snakes best interest, I would personally have the snake put under myself given he was twitching and stuff but that would be terribly difficult.

[environmentalteach]

How warm is the ambient room temp? All that heat seems overkill for the summer! Definitely do not force feed her! This can add all kinds of additional stress on your little one. Stress can lower resistance to infection. I would tend to disturb her as little as possible during this time. Good Luck!

[northwestcorns]

The ambient room temp is 68-70. We live in the Seattle area and it drops to 45 degrees in the evening right now. I have lowered her temp to around 75-80. I'm taking her back to the vet tomorrow. She is in terrible pain and I can't help her. I feel helpless. I haven't tried to force feed her, but I did put fluids down her with the antibiotics that I have. She has lost almost 10 grams since this happened and I know that it is due to fluid loss. I'm so sorry for her. Tomorrow I am going to help her rest and have the vet euthanize her. It just isn't fair for her to be in this much pain.

Thanks everyone for all of your support and the responses you gave. I hope that this thread will stand as a learning tool for someone. I know that I learned a lot and I've been doing this for years. This is the first snake that has gotten sick as the result of something I did. I'll have nightmares forever after this.

[vetusvates]

Well, darling, bless your heart. I know that is a difficult thing to do. But this is your situation and your snake. We will just say we've all learned from it. Don't be to hard on yourself.
If I lived in Washington, I'd give you one. Or two or three.
Sincerely,
Eric

[northwestcorns]

After my massive failure as a keeper, I feel like this is at least one thing that I can do RIGHT for Jewel. I value the fact that, while this is absolutely my last choice, it IS something I can do for my animals to relieve their suffering.

[VickyChaiTea]

Why euthanize? Are things going downhill?? It seems like you're not giving her a chance... I mean, the vet said she'd be ok with meds, right? I know she's in pain, but it seems like she'll get better, you know?

[Jenstar]

I think you are doing the best thing for your snake. I've been in your situation and it's a hard, but you are doing the right thing. Don't feel bad everyone makes mistakes. You did your best and you learned. That is what is important.

[Iguanagirl8662]

Why euthanize? Are things going downhill?? It seems like you're not giving her a chance... I mean, the vet said she'd be ok with meds, right? I know she's in pain, but it seems like she'll get better, you know?

I agree, I personally would give her more time but I understand your view too. She is in a lot of pain and you don't want her to suffer any more so whatever you decide you did your best for her. I would talk it over with your vet and see what he/she thinks. And I really am so sorry that you and her have to go through this.

[northwestcorns]

VCT: If she wasn't in obvious pain, if she was drinking on her own and not dessicating before my eyes, I would keep going. BUT i don't have anyway to relieve her pain. If I touch her to try and give her fluids or antibiotics, she starts to thrash around-almost like a seizure. Just being alive is stressing her.

I'm a firm believer in working with my snakes until they get better. My 17 year old Ball Python developed an eye infection and didn't eat for almost 8 months. I got surgery on his eyes, and snuck him to work with me to make sure he got his antibiotics three times a day.

I also know when keeping them alive is wrong. I feel that this is wrong for Jewel. I just wish that I could help her out sooner.

I also want to let the person that PM'd know that I feel putting her in the freezer isn't an option for me. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Maybe it should be a different thread.

[armbarvictim]

live and learn brother, the snake will be much happier and I would do the same thing man. it just looks very very bad and painful and no animal should have to live with that pain, your doing the right thing in my book and I commend you for it.

[VickyChaiTea]

But just because she's in pain now doesn't mean she won't get better, you know?

[Jenstar]

But just because she's in pain now doesn't mean she won't get better, you know?

Your right she might get better, but we don't know how this animal is feeling.
I can only imagine what it would feel like to have a burn that severe on my own body and not be able to kill the pain. I'm sure at some point I wouldn't want to go through it anymore. The OP is making a very hard decision and I think we should support it so it is easier on him or her.

[Iguanagirl8662]

But just because she's in pain now doesn't mean she won't get better, you know?

What she is saying is like when we get hurt it is painful and we have to go through a lot but we have to stick it out till we heal. Your snake will heal but it will take time. With every shed she will get better and better and her sheds will come quite often now that she is injuried. Of course it is painful but she will heal with time and I don't see why you jumped to the option of putting her to sleep when she will most likely heal. I would be considering it in your position but I would give her more time and see how she is doing, it has been less than 2 weeks if I remeber correctly. That isn't very long at all, she may start eating again in a couple weeks.

I don't mean to make your decision out to be wrong, she is badly injuried and is suffering but I don't see a point in putting her down if she will recover. Either way I know all you want is the best for her.

[Iguanagirl8662]

The OP is making a very hard decision and I think we should support it so it is easier on him or her.

Like I said before I am very sorry if I am making it sound like your doing the wrong thing, I am just saying what I would do but I am not you and I have not seen her in person. I do think your decision is in her best interest and I'm very sorry you had to make that decision.

[Jenstar]

Looks like the snake is doing better...

[Lennycorn]

Shelley

I don't have snake in hand to see what your seeing so it's your call.
My snake only twitch when I was applying the meds by hand not the spray.
Maybe the spray is a "cool shock" to him. ???????
I would give the snake a little more time also.

Here a link of Lennys' burns...
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79921

and a few months later
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86375

[northwestcorns]

Hey Everyone. I posted a new thread. "The Fat Lady Hasn't Sung Yet!" is about Jewel's apparent road to recovery. This thread seemed doomed, especially after the decision I had made. Last night she shed, with my help, and looks like she is turning around after all. I'll keep folks posted on her recovery on the other thread. I won't make any more decisions without giving Jewel time to declare herself one way or the other.

Shelley

[environmentalteach]

That is great news! I am happy you gave her some more time. I remember about 20 years ago when I was a young herper and Burms were all the craze, I had a 11 foot male that got a nasty fungal infection on his entire ventral side. All I saw was meat and capillaries. I thought he was doomed. I was working for a vet who gave me a chlorohexadane solution (not sure of spelling), and like clockwork, I cleaned him every day and put him on dry newspaper. After a couple of months, he made a complete recovery( although his scales always did look a little messed up). My point is that it is good to be patient, snakes take a long time to heal, but they do heal. Good luck good job!!

[armbarvictim]

I hope everything works out for the best shelley I really do, Take care of that girl and keep us posted!

[northwestcorns]

Lenny, can you post pics of your corn now? Are the scales growing back with color or white? Does he need help to shed?