Snake with no Tongue??

[360EvoChris]

i bought two corns yesterday now i have 3 but i noticed something different for some reason Ruby (i will post up pics soon) doesnt seem to stick out her tongue its like she doesnt have one i havent seen her do it once yet

[360EvoChris]

i spoke to a girl at my school who breeds king snakes and rosy boas and she said that it has some infection or sumthing where i have to squrt listerine in its mouth or something can any1 help please

[queztacoatl]

Just the fact that you haven't seen it stick out it's tongue doesn't mean it hasn't. Definitely don't squirt anything into it's mouth without first actually figuring out if anything is wrong with it. If she didn't have a tongue she probably wouldn't have lived long enough for you to buy her.

[speirsaaron]

id have to agree with queztacoatl, i didnt think snakes could survive with no tounge as i thought a snakes tounge is used as much as we use our eyes (i know ppl live been blind) and a snake without a tounge i wuda thought wud have truble feeding . but i might be wrong thats jus my thoughts :) hope u find out whats wrong with her/him
goodluck :)

[Cornsnake124]

DO NOT squirt listerine in its mouth, or anything for that matter. I would take it to a reptile vet to get checked out. I would doubt it doesn't have a tounge, and i would have a vet confirm an infection.

[ceasertwo]

I'm newer at this, but I know that Listerine is bad for people to swallow. So, i can't even imagine what it would do to an animal. I could only be having trouble finding any info on something like this. But, if you think there is something wrong with your baby my suggestion is to take it straight to the vet. Better safe than sorry.

[TxMomto4]

I'm newer at this, but I know that Listerine is bad for people to swallow. So, i can't even imagine what it would do to an animal. I could only be having trouble finding any info on something like this. But, if you think there is something wrong with your baby my suggestion is to take it straight to the vet. Better safe than sorry.

Hum, I was told something about mouth rot (have it written in my snake journal). Does she happen to have any gunk in or around her mouth?

[360EvoChris]

no she does have a tongue but she doesnt seem to flick her tongue in and out

[Criosphynx]

I have actually seen ONE snake born w/o a tongue...it was a burmese python, and it did not live.

I agree, sounds more like an infection, or just general lethargy.

[RobbiesCornField]

Some snakes just don't flick their tongue as often as others. :shrugs: Just remember, every snake is different. But if you REALLY think there's something wrong, go to a vet.
And smack your breeder friend for the Listerine advice. Alcohol isn't good for a humans system, let alone an animals.

[speirsaaron]

have u tryed feedin it ? maybe that wud get the tounge flickin goin ? maybe ...dunno lol

[vetusvates]

I agree with Tony and Robbie on the Listerine. I'm quite sure the original Mr. Lister would also,...as using a 40-50 proof solution is much more suitable for sterilizing surgical instruments, stripping floors, killing gonorrhea, and halitosis.

What concerns me much more is this poor fellow's tongue. What first comes to mind was a recent discussion with a professor friend of mine named Wade, in which we were talking about the embryological development of the neural tube and the ongoing debate of the actual origins of the protostomes versus the deuterostomes.
There happens to be a rare congenital condition in reptiles called Displaced Archenteron Syndrome. In this condition, the genetic signals that turn on the differential embryological development of the organs of the buccal mucosa (mouth) and reproductive structures at opposite ends of the gut,...become reversed. Surprisingly, and lucky for you, if this is indeed the case, as I suspect, this condition is not incompatible with life. Your young snake will mature normally, but will simply never be able to reproduce.
In more common lay terms, you are looking for the said tongue at the wrong end of your snake. You will find the mucoid organs of the mouth and the reproductive structures associated with the cloaca....have been reversed. So while you are waiting for your snake to yawn to confirm this, I would most definitely be shopping for evidence of a tongue flicking at the posterior aperture of your unique little fellow.

[COerriccaRN]

Hum, I was told something about mouth rot (have it written in my snake journal). Does she happen to have any gunk in or around her mouth?

Mouth Rot does not make a snakes tounge "fall out" or to not flick its toungue. Just causes swelling and the loss of actual teeth. Be sure to write that down.

What concerns me much more is this poor fellow's tongue. What first comes to mind was a recent discussion with a professor friend of mine named Wade, in which we were talking about the embryological development of the neural tube and the ongoing debate of the actual origins of the protostomes versus the deuterostomes.
There happens to be a rare congenital condition in reptiles called Displaced Archenteron Syndrome. In this condition, the genetic signals that turn on the differential embryological development of the organs of the buccal mucosa (mouth) and reproductive structures at opposite ends of the gut,...become reversed. Surprisingly, and lucky for you, if this is indeed the case, as I suspect, this condition is not incompatible with life. Your young snake will mature normally, but will simply never be able to reproduce.
In more common lay terms, you are looking for the said tongue at the wrong end of your snake. You will find the mucoid organs of the mouth and the reproductive structures associated with the cloaca....have been reversed. So while you are waiting for your snake to yawn to confirm this, I would most definitely be shopping for evidence of a tongue flicking at the posterior aperture of your unique little fellow.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[danielle]

Actually mouth rot DOES cause them to flick their tongues less, but now I'm all interested Eric. Are you seriously saying there is a congenital defect in which the snake forms with their junk in mouth and tongue in vent? I am super naive if your joking, but I would love to see pics. Maybe they can mate just from the wrong end,lol Where are the ovaducts then?

[vetusvates]

Yes, Danielle, they can engage in the reproductive act...and it will be pleasurable for both. (We humans only think we invented the '69'.) It will simply not result in viable fertilization.

[danielle]

Interesting stuff Eric I have never heard of such a thing your one knowledgeable man!!

[danielle]

Oh Eric got me good everyone and I can't even rep him. Someone please do the honors that was good!!

[vetusvates]

Interesting stuff Eric I have never heard of such a thing your one knowledgeable man!!
Oh but Danielle, don't leave out Professor Wade. He enlightened me that of these not-often congenitally deformed snakes, which can pop up in both sexes, some rare specimens develop a preference for the company of their own sex, as it were. All else being equal.
I.e., cohabbing in this context being not so bad a thing for these otherwise apparently normal snakes.

But, unfortunately, there are rare and mysterious religious sects that have demonized and maligned this poor misaligned snakes, and they have been taunted and tortured and euthanized by the thousands.

Philosophers believe that this primitive innate instinct to fear and castigate what is outside of the normal, or constitutes "the other", is one of the few residual primitive primordial instinct behaviors that modern Homo sapiens, in all its sophistication and technological acumen, has not yet evolved beyond.

[danielle]

See I'm must have totally missed out on my residual primitive primordial instinctive behavioral reaction then I really wanted to watch:D

[TxMomto4]

Mouth Rot does not make a snakes tounge "fall out" or to not flick its toungue. Just causes swelling and the loss of actual teeth. Be sure to write that down.

She has already stated that there is a tongue just that it does not flick. ;) With swelling, a snake (at least it makes sense) would have a hard time flicking its tongue. Correct?

[COerriccaRN]

She has already stated that there is a tongue just that it does not flick. With swelling, a snake (at least it makes sense) would have a hard time flicking its tongue. Correct?

It could go either way. The pain and teeth rot could cause them to flick more, the swelling could cause less.

The amount of flicking is not a "sure fire" way to test for mouth rot.

[TxMomto4]

Oh no, that wasn't what I meant. I had asked her if the was "cheesy" like gunk because if there way then it could point to that. I just figured it was a shot in the dark. Newbie will close her mouth now, and let the more experienced people give the medial advise. :)

[COerriccaRN]

Oh no, that wasn't what I meant. I had asked her if the was "cheesy" like gunk because if there way then it could point to that. I just figured it was a shot in the dark. Newbie will close her mouth now, and let the more experienced people give the medial advise.

Your fine! You caught me on that one, less flicking COULD come from mouth rot, but I just didn't want you to write that in your journal and it be wrong :)

Here is how you test for MR btw: Take a credit card (peice of paper for a hatchling) and hold your hatchling firmly(but gently) behind the head. Insert the peice of paper/card into the mouth and the snake will not like the presence of it. They will usually open REALLY wide and you can see the mouth then. I usually do this once every two months. Once every month if the humidity and temps have been off :)

[TxMomto4]

Ah ha! Thanks! I AM writing that down!!!!

Good grief, I wonder how many times I'll get bit before I get good at that one!! LOL Thankfully Jackie's doesn't hurt, and "no name" snow is so easy going my kids were holding him upside down to figure out who all he was taller than and he was just like "whatever dude. pick me up when your ready". We found out though that he is 370 grams, and is taller than my two year old and almost as tall as my 6 and 8 year olds (they are VERY close in height). LOL

[COerriccaRN]

Good grief, I wonder how many times I'll get bit before I get good at that one!! LOL Thankfully Jackie's doesn't hurt, and "no name" snow is so easy going my kids were holding him upside down to figure out who all he was taller than and he was just like "whatever dude. pick me up when your ready". We found out though that he is 370 grams, and is taller than my two year old and almost as tall as my 6 and 8 year olds (they are VERY close in height). LOL


I've never gotten bit checking for mouth rot. The paper just makes them "yawn" really. And that is a pretty big snake, I can't wait till mine get that big!

[TxMomto4]

Ok, good. I know it doesn't hurt but the whole "striking" motion scares the wits out of me! Getting better though (both Jackie and I)... Jackie doesn't strike as much and I don't pull away fast as often any more! ;) I know. I'm a dork.

Anyway, any good name ideas for a male snow????? I haven't found ANYTHING I like. Was trying for something Native American, but nothing that strikes me (no pun intended) as GREAT.

[joblack83]

And smack your breeder friend for the Listerine advice. Alcohol isn't good for a humans system, let alone an animals.

Go Robbie:laugh:

[360EvoChris]

Here is how you test for MR btw: Take a credit card (peice of paper for a hatchling) and hold your hatchling firmly(but gently) behind the head. Insert the peice of paper/card into the mouth and the snake will not like the presence of it. They will usually open REALLY wide and you can see the mouth then. I usually do this once every two months. Once every month if the humidity and temps have been off :)

Thank you very much now after that test she sticks her tongue out all the time now :D hopefully she will continue to do that now :)

[danielle]

A credit card can actually cut their mouth which can become infected so usually washing your hands first and then gently using your finger to open the mouth is a better route:)

[COerriccaRN]

Anyway, any good name ideas for a male snow????? I haven't found ANYTHING I like. Was trying for something Native American, but nothing that strikes me (no pun intended) as GREAT.
Try a name from the cast from the movie "The Man From SNOWY river" or something like that. Thats what I did.

credit card can actually cut their mouth which can become infected so usually washing your hands first and then gently using your finger to open the mouth is a better route
Yes, only use a credit card or your hands for OLDER snakes. For a hatchling, your hand is to big and could hurt their jaw. You should NEVER force open your snakes mouth. The best way to go would be a peice of cardstock or computer paper.

[360EvoChris]

the snakes tongue looks a little deformed though thts probs the problem or sumin

[360EvoChris]

i think its stopping her eating or something since she is refusing to eat

[COerriccaRN]

i think its stopping her eating or something since she is refusing to eat

Are you sure that she isn't shedding or about to shed? That could be the problem.

[360EvoChris]

doesnt look like its shedding but another thing i notice is she only really flicks her tongue in and out when im around if she is in her viv she wont flick her tongue in and out

[bitsy]

They use their tongues to "smell" and find out about the environment around them. She probably knows her viv but you still need to be investigated. When a snake flicks their tongue, it's like a dog sniffing around.