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Waste issues with babycorns and adults just recently developed Help!

NannyCloud
09-17-2009, 09:50 PM
Ok heres the situation. I've never had an issue with my snakes waste. Before it was really broken down like normal, black with some of the solid liquid which is white. Then there is regurge which I've seen as it looks like a partially digested mouse and you can still make out some of the limbs.

What I am getting...which has never been an issue before, is what looks like something in between. It doesn't look normal like it wasn't digested enough but it's still not reconizable as a mouse anymore and almost all my snake are doing that. two adults one yearlying and about 7 of my hatchlings out of 17 snakes. The hatchlings look like mini intestines. The only issue is that as I find more every day(they are passing this often) I never see them having stomach issues. They are happy and active from dusk till early morning and then sleeping all day. Do they have worms? I'm not handling them regularly?

The only thing I can think of is the room is anywhere from 73-82 degrees at any time. The fluxuation would be gradual. Also I only have one heat pad so only one snake has it at a time and it's usually the hatchlings or adult corn that have the worst waste issues at this time.

Can anyone give me suggestions or help me get rid of this problem? I know what normal waste looks like. This isn't.

___________________________________________
Second issue.
I have a baby albino hatchling I hatched and it has an abnormal lump in it that looks like the mouse I fed it but way to high in the body and it has the worst wast of the snakes.

The other bad one is my adult female cornsnake she passes waste once a day or more usually just that solid white liquid. does sheneed to be wormed or treated for internal parasites? She started doing that a few months after she laid the eggs.

I am new at this breeding thing and keeping hatchlings and I haven't got alot of money for equipment. Help.

danielle
09-17-2009, 10:40 PM
Oh my where to start. Your snakes need a vet. Of concern worms which would be visable if you really looked, crypto, or bacterial invadens. The lump has me thinking crypto of which there is no cure, but your freezer. However, is there blood in the stool and do you quarantine new animals ever? When kept together one gets what the others do espcially if you handle multiple snakes one after the other, clean their bowls and cages together, or are cohabbing which I assume you are:( The strange poo is probably mucus from their intenstinal lining and eventually if they keep ridding themselves of this they will all die from dehydration and their own acids damaging and eating through the intestines. Most people buy proper caging and heat before getting another snake, and another snake, and another...you get my point by now. Most people also breed when they have the proper necessities and quarantine all new animals away from their established colony to avoid the loss of their whole collection. Past regurges could be to blame as well if you didn't treat them appropriately, but as it is every snake I suspect your whole collection needs vet attention and has some sort of parasite or bacteria.

Susan
09-18-2009, 07:01 AM
Definitely a visit to the vet is in order. It may be nothing more than worms, but could be a symptom of something more serious. There may also be an issue of incomplete digestion. I see that upon occasion, where some mouse parts come out "intact" in the poop. How often are they being fed and what is the size ratio of snake to meal? Try feeding slightly smaller meals maybe a little further apart and see if there is an improvement in the poop.

bitsy
09-18-2009, 08:08 AM
73-82 degrees is a too low for Corns if that's the only heat they have and there are periods at 73 degrees after feeding. I'd suggest that one possible reason for partial digestion is the lack of a warm spot in the mid/high 80s for all.

If the problem gets worse for the snake using the one shared heat pad at the time, then I'm guessing you don't have it regulated and it's getting far too hot. Could lead to other issues.

Lumps in hatchlings are never a good sign. That definitely needs a vet if you want to find out what the problem is (although there probably won't be a solution).

My thoughts:
1) Get them all checked by a vet
2) Buy the proper heater and thermostat for all your snakes

I'm afraid any sort of solution will need a financial outlay.

NannyCloud
09-21-2009, 11:00 AM
Well I am going on vacation for two weeks so I have purchased the needed heat elements and set that up. They seem to digest better with that. The hatchling with the lump immediatly passed the lump after I applied a heat pad under the end of it's container for a day. When I breed this spring I will definatly invest in a long strip of heat tape and an adiquate rack for proper care.
I think the reply about getting another snake and another without the porper elements is what happened. I had a peak of 21 snakes with two heat pads(one borrowed) and am just getting back to 12 and then to 7 when I return from vacation.
Also, I haven't been co-habiting them ever but I do handle them and clean all at once. While I do wash my hands between snakes and cages I am sure there is a little bit of sharing going on there. I also haven't thought to quarentine the two new ones I bought about three weeks ago. Thanks for bringing that up I will remember it next time.
I have been feeding them about once a week. The adults get live one week(when I get them from my breeder) and then frozen the next to weeks. Another issue could be how well I thaw them out before I give it to them. Then with no heat element they could not possible digest that.
I think that I need to just take more time out of my busy schedule to pay more attention to their needs since they are my responsability. I will however take the one snake that hasn' improved to the vet. (all the others are doing much better!) Thanks Guys! Any further advice would be appreciated.

Zulu3
09-21-2009, 12:29 PM
Is someone going to be monitoring and taking care of your snakes while you are gone? Because if they continue to "poop" or whatever they are excreting for two weeks, like Danielle said, you are going to come home to deceased snakes.... It's just like humans, when we have intestinal issues we get dehydrated. They are small and cannot take that. You should seriously consider taking them to a vet before you leave or have someone take them for you while you are gone.

I'm no expert on snake problems, so I wont try to diagnose it, but clearly there is something very wrong happening here.

Good luck to you and your babies,

Ali

Drewby07
09-22-2009, 11:18 AM
Nanny - I'm not going to go into the various glaring errors I see here...such as rotating heat pads...no constant heat source, no quarantining, not even being sure the mouse is thawed all the way before feeding...etc.

But I will say this. You chose to have this many animals. They did not choose you. You are also breeding snakes and creating new lives (If I read correctly). If you do not even have time to properly thaw out your mice, you may want to rethink this hobby. You are responsible for properly caring for all of these animals, and if you are unable to do so, you need to send them to better homes with someone who can.

Not trying to be harsh, but these aren't toys...they are living creatures that are at your mercy.

Marica
09-22-2009, 12:24 PM
The adults get live one week(when I get them from my breeder) and then frozen the next to weeks. Another issue could be how well I thaw them out before I give it to them.

I'm not sure I understand why you'd rotate live and f/t if you snakes are accepting f/t. If you're feeding appropriately sized prey, adult mice to your adult corns, then the mice could seriously injure your snakes - a risk not worth taking. Also, making sure they are fully dethawed is a must. It really doesn't take long for them to get nice and warm and squishy in a bowl of hot water.

While I do wash my hands between snakes and cages I am sure there is a little bit of sharing going on there.

An easier method than having to go to the sink everytime is to have a bottle of foam or gel hand sanitizer right beside the cages.

While I would not recommend going on a 2 week vacation at this time, make sure your snakies have plenty of water in non-tippable containers.

Corns can be low maintenance pets until you become addicted. It really does sound like you've taken on more than you can handle. I hope you are able to find good homes for the snakes you are willing to part with so that you can focus on better care for the ones you keep.

Shann415
09-22-2009, 04:07 PM
I was so disturbed when i read this post about how the snakes were being cared for. (or lack there of).

I surely hope that you have someone to keep your snakes for you while you're away so that you dont come home to a mini-morgue.

NannyCloud
10-04-2009, 10:11 AM
U have upset me a little by assuming that I don't care for my snakes.

I always take from one to two hours to feed my pets. I have never had an issue with not thawing I just wondered if it happened once since this started. Also I never feed live live I always break their necks before I give it to them. I would never feed live mice!! :O

I am also hurt that you think so little of me that I would not leave someone to watch them while I'm gone. Of course I have someone to change their water every two days and I set up two people to feed. Which has all happened and I return home Tuesday.

Also, once I began keeping my whole room at a regular 80-85(min) degrees their digestion issues cleared nearly immediately. The only reptile with issues is the female with internal parasites but her feces are much better till I can get the vet to set up a time at the Exotic place to prescribe me something for her. Also she is 10-11 years old so she may be near the end on her own from age. I've only had her for a year and a half and the previous owner didn't have time to care for her.

I wish you would be gentle with people on here until you know everything. You assume so much. I spend at least an hour with them every day and much more on the weekends when the feedings are and routine check-ups by myself to see how they are.
If I offended anyone I sincerely apologize.

I love all the advice I can get but isn't there to be a sense of gentle superiority instead of immediately saying that I am horrible and abusive? I am sure all of you didn't know everything in the trade when you started either.

danielle
10-04-2009, 10:26 AM
You have to understand no one here is saying their an expert, but most of us gathered at the bare minimum the necessary needs of our snakes first like UTH's and proper basic care info.

You say you now keep the room at a minimum 80-85- any higher than that and your snakes are going to overheat and die not to mention be quite stressed.

Then you say in this room there is a female who has intestinal parasites- its called quarantine you need to get her away from your collection

You say your taking her to the vet- but you haven't yet which means you don't really know what she has, the rest of your collection almost certainly has it too, and you have failed at providing a minimum of care for a sick pet which is cruel.

Allowing your snakes to go with no heat and have worrisome stools for over a month with no care makes you a negligent pet owner like it or not. I am appauled you think feeding your snakes makes you a qualified pet keeper it doesn't:)

I think you are young and probably not in the financial position to care for them which does not make you evil, but it does signal the need to reduce your collection to a number you can properly care for i.e house, heat, feed, and vet when necessary. Getting and breeding a bunch of snakes because you like them is only one qualification for owning and breeding pets. You need to be able to provide each snake with basic needs or reduce the herd until you can:)

You can take this as harsh, but your 17 and in no position to care for many animals yet as you still can't support yourself. Your snakes are probably in pain from being ill this long and the humane thing to do issss get them help or get rid of them:)

leimwolf
10-04-2009, 11:23 PM
Nothing I've read here seems harsh. Real is what i've seen here. Simple concern for the issues the animals in question are having. Even if you think the advice rendered seems harsh to you I'll stick my neck out there too and listen closely to what is said by these more experienced. Danielle is certainly one I'd absolutely listen to, and all she's doing is laying it down as real as she can. It is my hope that the critters in your care will be well soon.

Leim

Drewby07
10-05-2009, 11:12 AM
Danielle said it all. Sorry if you felt offended, but everything you've been told here is the truth....even if it IS hard for you to hear.

Mr.Pohada
10-05-2009, 11:34 AM
While I agree about being overwhelmed and the Importance of proper care and responsibility for care of these animals,I have noticed that many on this board tend to be very protective of the welfare of snakes (understood).I fell when we are looking to educate new Handler/caregivers we need to handle them with kit gloves so to speak.I am new to herpetology and have much gratitude for the wealth of knowledge found from the members here but what we don't want to do is offend or scare new Owners off we want to encourage change and proper care for these wonderful creations we all enjoy.

Jesse

NannyCloud
10-07-2009, 09:47 AM
You don't understand my situation I think. I have just finished installing the proper heat elements for all of them today after a lengthy visit to the pet store and spending the nessicary money and talking to the personel. I also took the female to a breeder with some of her feces and he said she just needs to have a nice ready heated area in her cage so she seems to be doing much better. Also I have sold all the hatchlings so I am down to 5 snakes. I have set up to purchase a 25 drawer rack with heat tape from a friend before I breed next year. Finally, I am feeding all thawed(so I am freezing the live mice I get) so that it kills any potential parasites and other issues that might come with live pre-killed feeding(suggested by the pet store). And since they were so recently frozen they should be holding most of the nutrition.

Any other suggestions? (calmly please, everyong was starting to sound like PETA :( ) If you want to get lots of new herp keepers on here you have to be gentle. This is the second time in three years I've gotten the gut to get on here and be chewed out.

Drewby07
10-07-2009, 12:56 PM
The only thing I can think is what are your temps? Depending on what type of heat you are using...you will likely need a thermostat. Without one....you can easily overheat your snakes. Something that feels only warm to us can actually be hot enough to kill a snake if it can't get away from it.

Other than that it sounds like you're doing great!

funnynonsense
10-07-2009, 04:07 PM
Hey Nanny -

You're only 17 years, and keeping a lot of snakes. From what I see you aren't 100% on top of the required husbandry and needs of these snakes yet.

How are you keeping all your snakes? Seperate vivs? a Rack?
If you don't have a rack it may be a good investment for you. Do a search for some home made ones. It will make it easy for you to control the temps using heat tape/ cables and a thermostat.

Please learn all you can and get your husbandry and snakes established before you start breeding. The last thing you need is more problems, and when you have more experience as a keeper try breeding.

Good luck to you.

funnynonsense
10-07-2009, 04:19 PM
While I agree about being overwhelmed and the Importance of proper care and responsibility for care of these animals,I have noticed that many on this board tend to be very protective of the welfare of snakes (understood).I fell when we are looking to educate new Handler/caregivers we need to handle them with kit gloves so to speak.I am new to herpetology and have much gratitude for the wealth of knowledge found from the members here but what we don't want to do is offend or scare new Owners off we want to encourage change and proper care for these wonderful creations we all enjoy.

Jesse

Sorry for the double post.

Mr.Pohada, Normally I'd agree with you. But in this case I wouldn't classify the OP as a new keeper. Not with this amount of snakes. It's strange to me that anyone would have so many animals that they aren't knowledgeable about, or ready to deal with. Most people learn with 1 and move on from there.

This situation was caused by very irresponsible practices, which could of been avoided by proper research and preparation, and as such warrants a bit of a slap on the wrist.

Nanny - Sorry I missed that you were getting a rack. Good move and good luck again.

Zulu3
10-07-2009, 05:13 PM
It sounds to me like she is doing the right things and trying to provide the best for her babies. I've said it so many times; just because we are young it doesn't NECESSARILY mean we are inept at taking care of pets. I have had corns since I was 17, and can tell you I have taken quite adequate care of them. Yes, mistakes were made and now she is trying to fix them. So I think we can and should lighten up a little?

Ali

Kaminoke
10-07-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't know exactly where you live, which is cool, but here is a list I found via Google of herp vets in North Carolina (http://www.herpvetconnection.com/nocarol.shtml). Since your snakes have had digestive issues at some point, I would recommend taking at least one, probably the female, to get a fecal done, especially since you are selling them. You don't want to sell hatchlings without a clean bill of health, lest you give unsuspecting buyers snakes that only appear healthy and develop a bad reputation - so do it for your snakes' sakes and for your own. It's good to get outside input, from people online and from your breeder, but nothing takes the place of a veterinary exam. A single fecal test should not be terribly expensive, and if it is negative more probably won't be necessary.

I'm glad to hear that your snakes are doing better. I would still take advantage of all of the fantastic advice given. You have to take everyone's' tone with a grain of salt. Most of the advice that has been given you in this thread is information that should have been obtained prior to getting so many animals. But the rack is a great step, you seem to be getting on a better track. I wish you the best and I implore you to still pick the brains of the very knowledgeable members of this board. Everyone here is very passionate about the well-being of snakes and other animals. Appearing to "chew you out" only means that they care, and that you should probably pay double attention because something is terribly wrong.