Should Feeding Live Prey be Avoided?

[sunglow]

Hi everyone,

We are really enjoying this site, and find your comments extremely helpful.

We wanted a snake for a long time. However, the feeding issue kept us from making the leap. Well finally we took a deep breath and decided to go and get a snake. Two weeks ago we added our first snake to our family (6 month Sunglow).So far, we have fed our snake twice ( A live fuzzy each time).

At this time, feeding our snake has not been a problem. We put the fuzzy in a shoe box. Then we put the snake in the shoe box -- we close the lid, come back in 20 minutes. No Fuzzy, no mess, no problem.

Here's the question. Can we continue this approach? I have seen references to feeding "fresh kill" or thawing out frozen prey.

Killing a mouse or keeping one in our freezer and then thawing it out -- is something we would like to avoid.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Sheri]

Congrats on your new snake! You will get lots of opinions on this most likely,,,the main thing I hear from folks is that feeding live prey is a risk to your snake,,,,,,,with the mouse possibly being able to cause damage to the snake as they get larger. I thought the whole thawing out part would be GROSS too,,,,,,,,but it's not. In fact I now have almost 200 mice in my freezer next to my ice cream,,,,,NO big deal. When I thaw,,I put them in a baggie in warm water,,,,,,,when I'm checking them to see if they're thawed I palpate them through the baggie,,,(avoid getting pinkie smell on my hands too). It will be harder to switch your snake to F/T after it's been eating live a long time,,,,,so IF you do switch I'd do it now rather than try to later.

Good Luck!

Sheri =o)

[lynn]

Welcome Sunglow this is a brilliant site it has helped me a lot just by reading other people's comment's and congratulations on getting your first snake. Iv'e had mine for 6 month's now and I wouldn't like to part with her for anything. They are brilliant pet's. As for the feeding I feed thawed frozen which she has no problem's with I know there are other's that feed live but I think you have to be careful incase the mouse hurt's the snake which can happen. But everyone to their own. Good luck with what you decide to do.:)

[Neo]

My First (and only snake, for now) was eating live mice when i got him/her. We fed here 2 live fuzzies and it was the coolest to watch, the next time we tried frozen pinkies (which was all the store had at the time) Blaze took them. The next week i tried frozen fuzzies and Blaze took it no problem. :cool: As for mice in your freezer i have about 50 right now (my mother actually let me have them there) and well if you are worried about bacterian coming off the mice and spoiling you food it wont happen. There is actually a greater chance (still very low tho) of bacteria spoiluing the mice (which as i say will most likly enever happen)

[Simon]

Feeding live and frozen thawed (F/T) is an issue that a lot of people have been discussing about. Some like to feed live and some f/t.

I personally would think that feeding f/t is better due to:
1) Its acutally cheaper to buy f/t mice since you can buy a high quantity of them
2) the freezing actually kills most of the parasites and bacteria carried in the mouse
3) the mouse cannot harm the snake, there are cases when a snake is actually killed by a live mouse.
4) feeding f/t can save yourself sometime, since you don't have to keep a close eye on them when feeding.

in my experience, I would totally go for f/t mice. I had one of my amel hurt during the process of feeding live. After that one time, I totally changed it to f/t. I had to go out and buy live mice to feed my snakes but then since I have changed to f/t I order them online and I only need to do that maybe once 3 - 4 months.

Hope that helped!
Good luck and Happy Herpnig!

[sunglow]

Thanks for all your feedback. I was hoping to hear some successful stories regarding live prey.

I hope this question is not too silly, but how do you know when the mouse is completely thawed?

Thanks,

Sunglow

[Solaris16]

Hi there!

If any of you want to see some pictures of what can happen when you feed live, feel free to email me. They are rather graphic and disturbing so I won't just post them here. I lost the address to the site but I have them saved to my computer. Email me at: terciopelo16@hotmail.com if you want to see them! Wendy :)

[Susan]

I thaw all my mice and rats in warm - hot water, to decrease the thawing time (feeding over 70 snakes at a time). Pinkies thaw in just a few minutes, but adult mice take at least 20 - 30 minutes, with about 2-3 changes of water to keep it hot. You can tell when a mouse is thawed by holding it fairly tightly and not feeling any cold spots. I always give it more time, just to make sure. The brain and very middle are the last to thaw, and the most difficult to check. You never want to feed partially frozen, even a little bit. I like using hotter water vs room temp because the mouse is more the "normal" temp of live prey that way. I have a few snakes that don't like "cold" food, but I do have quite a few snakes that wait awhile before eating also. To each his own.

[Simon]

I thaw mine out with luke warm water too. I put them in a bag, and then leave it there for around 30 min (because I have adult mice, hoopers, fuzzies and pinkies in there.) But then I put in the adult mice in first then the hopper and fuzzies and then finally the pinky. I put the adult mice in for about 15 min and then add the hoppers and fuzzies in for 5 more min and then add the pinkies in.......

to make sure that the mice are fully thawed out, try checking them by squeezing them in the belly lightly........within the bag. If it's soft, then it's thawed out if not then put them in for a bit longer.

As Susan said, add new warm water in to keep the warm water to thaw the mice.

I have to add new warm water into the bucket before I feed mine because some of mine wont eat cold food, even at normal room temp.

Good luck and Happy Herping!

[LizS]

If it grosses you out to have mice next to the ice cream, you can put the mice in a tupperware, which in turn is inside another tupperware. Have the habit of washing your hands before touching the outher tupperware after retrieving mice, that way you are sure there is no loose "essence of mouse" floating about in the freezer. Also, the mice won't be visible through two layers of container.

On the other hand, you could just get used to having mice next to the ice cream. It's easier than you think, it's impressive how adaptable we humans can be (just think of a sworn bachelor who, years later, is changing diapers).

[CornsnakeKeeper]

Just keep them sealed in the freezer. The coldness helps to kill germs. Feeding live can be dangerous when he has to try to eat a larger one that could bite him. Try to switch to frozen/thawed ASAP. You don;t have to kill them. Order online or go to the local pet store.

[JakeTheSnake]

Here is something I'd like to throw in, and it has been puzzling me. Everyone says buying frozen is cheaper, but what if you don't have the freezer space. Has anyone ever broke down the actual cost between frozen and breeding your own feeders( don't count start up).

[eAndrew]

In the way of "success" stories with live feed:

I have had 10 snakes in the past 1.5 years, and still currently have nine (one escapee, still looking and hoping :( ), and I have so far used nothing but live feed, everything from pinks to adult mice to rat pinks to rat pups and fuzzies. Nothing has ever hurt my snakes, but I always stay there and watch, just in case. And with nine snakes, that can take a while.

A guy I know breeds mice and rats for his stock (pet store owner/breeder), so I usually just get a bunch from him. Costs around US$5 for food for all snakes.

The main reason I never tried F/T was because I didn't want to go through trying to convince my snakes to eat a different food. Live is working, all are happily eating.

For those with horror stories with LF, were the snakes being watched during feeding? Or were they unattended?

So as far as a success story, this is a bit weak...I'm quite inexperienced, as I've only dealt with 10 snakes over a year and a half, and even I'm considering F/T feed...I don't want my snakes to get hurt when I could have done something to prevent it.

[Gregg]

I feed my little snakes pinkies that I have just bought and put into the freezer to kill them. After and hour, I pull them out and warm them up with hot water (The pinkies are inside a sandwich bag). I have had pinkies return from their frozen death and live again, even after 45 minutes of freezing, so an hour is minimum for my freezer.

For the Big Boys and Girls, they get nice, warm, freshly stunned/killed mice. I'll take the mice, one by one, by the tail and smack them against the side of the cage. Then I lay them on a plate, so my snake won't get any substrate. The mice will kick for a while and then lay very still. Sometimes, if the snake is slow to eat all the mice (I give the adults two adult mice every other week--14 days), the second mouse will 'come to' and I'll have to pop it again.

Horrible and cruel, I know, but my wife doesn't want a freezer full of rodents. Short term is okay, like an hour, or so, but not continuous.

[kenalotia]

In response to the space question - if you don't have a lot of freezer space, don't buy a lot of frozen mice. A tray of 50 pinkies hardly takes up any space, but larger mice (or more mice) will, of course, take up more room. But buying F/T doesn't mean you have to buy in bulk. You can order online or go to a pet store and buy exactly the amount you want. I tend to get a dozen at a time. An adult needs only 3 jumbo mice per month, so this lasts for four months. You'll go through pinkies a lot faster, even with just one snake, but as I said, they take up less space anyway.

K

[Missymonkey]

While I was reading your post Gregg the song, "little bunny foo foo hopping through the forest scooping up the field mice and bopping them on the head" started running through my head...
I must say that I am way to sqwirmish to freeze and stun my mice,... I have to watch the Lion King everynow and then to remind myself that it's all just the circle of life :rolleyes:

[Gregg]

I know what you mean. I like to think of myself as a pacifist. I don't like to hurt anything. I reached a point, however, where I had to do something else besides putting mice into the freezer. Adult mice will take FOREVER to pass away in the icebox.

Then, a herp friend of mine in LA (that's Los Angeles, not Lower Alabama), showed me what she did. At first, I couldn't do it, but she made it look simple enough and assured me that it was (probably) painless for the mice. All I had to do was do it hard enough to not torture them.

Let me tell you. The first time I did it, I felt like I should have been arrested for murder right there on the spot. Man, it was hard to do. Even now, whenever I do it I feel terrible. Poor mice. But, I used to put mice in the cage alive and I changed my mind when one of my snakes snagged it on the side near the rear and the mouse whipped around and bit the snake right on the head. A little more and the mouse would have reached the snake's eye.

Circle of Life? Yeah, one of these days Something's gonna come along and grab ME by the tail and smack MY head up against something. We are all part of The Great Circle of Life. Nevertheless, If we are going to keep, raise, and breed carnivores in captivity, then we are going to have to become carnivores for them, if they are to eat.

One of these days, I'll have enough cornsnakes to make buying everything I need frozen, and in bulk, worth it; but for now, it's easier to get what I need and only what I need for the snakes I have.

Today is feeding day for the whole group. I know "Little Bunny Foo Foo" is going to be swimming through my brain, now that you've mentioned it. :)

[jim]

hi. i have a 00 snow that i bought at a local pet store about 4 months ago. it had been a pet that someone decided they didnt want when it started to grow. he has 4 mouse scars on different parts of his body. the scars are quite small but still unsightly. i've also noticed that when he sheds, the skin around the scarring does not detach as easily as the rest. in most cases the mouse cannot truly cause major harm to a snake but the little occasional nip will still cause scarring so i now feed f/t. just my humble opinion..... jim

[andys999]

I would just like to say that the norm over here is to feed defrost whenever possible - I would guess that 90% of snakes are fed defrost here.

The only time I personally would feed either freshly killed or even live (illegal here by the way) is if I had a stubborn snake that refused to feed at all.

Just for the record - Over the years I have bred and used literally thousands of mice. Large numbers are killed using carbon dioxide
ie the live mice are placed in an airtight bag and carbon dioxide added to the bag, which is then sealed up causing a quick death with no mess.

For smaller numbers of mice, an ideal way is to take an clean empty tin can (baked beans or similar). Hold the mouse by the tail on top of something solid eg a paving slab. hold the can in your rright hand, placing the open end over the mouses neck and quickly lean onto the can pushing down quickly to disslocate the mouses neck, thus killing it instantly.

Sorry to be so gruesome,

But

Like you say

It's the circle of life

Andy

[Missymonkey]

oh yea, I won't have any nightmares tonight, no way.

[Jr Nimeskern]

Well... what can I say I've tried to feed f/t to my snakes but they dont seem to like it as much as live... plus I get a thrill out of watching my snakes constrict the mouse... even though ive only fed my corns fuzzys... I think ill continue to feed them live... just because its more realistic... plus its alot funner to watch... this might be off the subject... but with my burmese python... I've fed her live mice and rats... and I havent had a problem so far... but of course my python is alot thicker than my corn snakes... so I would say that its alot safer to use f/t but for excitement and thrillful experiences I would use live food... of course when I gain more corns... i'll change to f/t but until I have 10 corns ill stay with live...
but... thats just me...