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coaxing hatchlings to eat

dakota11
12-01-2009, 10:45 PM
Hi, update on the amel that I thought had prolapsed he is doing great. On another note my eggs hatched almost 2 weeks ago all 4 have shed and this is the second time trying to feed ftp friend that incubated them tried to feed them 5 days ago. I had them in plastic bins now tonight I decided to use little delli tubs with pop bottle lid for water pinks are in with them heat lamp on top of the tank which I put the bins in the temp is 87 in the center between the delicups. should I leave them like that all night? or go back to the larger bins? leave pinks with them or throw them away? I could understand 1 or 2 but all 4 being stubborn!
Im trying to find live pinks but even my mice and asf arent breeding readly just great luck!!!
thanks

danielle
12-01-2009, 10:56 PM
I would leave them overnight with the pink in a deli cup, but not directly on the heat to be safe. Sometimes they need their privacy. Also being they just shed refusing to eat is not rare or anything to freak about yet. If they don't eat tonight try again in 5 days. Don't disturb them, handle, try everyday, and always feed at night leaving them alone. They can go a month or so easily with no food, but if in a few weeks they still aren't eating try brained, really hot pinks, or tease feeding. Then if worse comes to worse try live:)

Susan
12-02-2009, 06:26 AM
I would also recommend that you remove the water dish while they have their dinner. Too often, they will drop the pinky in the water dish and then they can't/won't try to eat it again. They'll be fine overnight without water.

RickersRodents
12-02-2009, 08:44 AM
Watch your temps. To much heat can and usually will stress them causing them not to eat.

If your interested, get with me via pm and I can send you a link to my cornsake care video. Might be helpful?

dakota11
12-09-2009, 12:56 AM
well one has eaten in the time of the first post I have tried live ft no water overnight woke up to the pinks and snakes in a ball together but believe it was a matter of keeping warm lol not really funny, and also in this experience tried gross partial feeding no results how the heck do you cut pink to be smaller? i realize frozen would have been a better option instead of ft gross mess that i dont care to repeat, whatsoever. ricker Ill pm u for the link greatly appreciated. Im having now trouble with humidity now with the wood stove on. the high end is at 90f fluctuates to about 92 the problem is its a 50 infared I tried 40w moonlamp and cant get over 80. The one that fed seems to be doing alroght, If I keep them in separate tubs how am i to keep the heat accurate? heat mats have never worked out well for me if I keep them in the tubs longer than the trying ot feed the water and heating is an issue as they have no warm cool spot to move to. I think my partner in this lil venture may get them for a while mabe shed have better luck idk. Im having an issue with the bought striped snake ill post on the other thread, bad luck lately or what? btw looking on u tube these babies appear to be extremely small compared to the ones i looked at one does have 2 small kinks. i know im rambling im just frustrated and feel at a loss here

RickersRodents
12-09-2009, 11:09 AM
well one has eaten in the time of the first post I have tried live ft no water overnight woke up to the pinks and snakes in a ball together but believe it was a matter of keeping warm lol not really funny, and also in this experience tried gross partial feeding no results how the heck do you cut pink to be smaller? i realize frozen would have been a better option instead of ft gross mess that i dont care to repeat, whatsoever. ricker Ill pm u for the link greatly appreciated. Im having now trouble with humidity now with the wood stove on. the high end is at 90f fluctuates to about 92 the problem is its a 50 infared I tried 40w moonlamp and cant get over 80. The one that fed seems to be doing alroght, If I keep them in separate tubs how am i to keep the heat accurate? heat mats have never worked out well for me if I keep them in the tubs longer than the trying ot feed the water and heating is an issue as they have no warm cool spot to move to. I think my partner in this lil venture may get them for a while mabe shed have better luck idk. Im having an issue with the bought striped snake ill post on the other thread, bad luck lately or what? btw looking on u tube these babies appear to be extremely small compared to the ones i looked at one does have 2 small kinks. i know im rambling im just frustrated and feel at a loss here

I understand your frustration all to well. I'll shoot you my video link via pm here in a sec. I will tell you this much corns are very forgiving on temps etc. so there is no exact science to them. That is just another one of the reason I love working with them for.

For feeding another thing you can try is "braining the pink". I normally keep an 18ga needle around for whatever and it seems to work ok for this. Take a pinkie and poke a hole in its head and give it a little squeeze till you get some grey matter to come out. This can sometimes get a corn to wake up a bit.

dakota11
12-10-2009, 05:31 PM
Well I still haqvent gotten the other three to eat, ft, live, partial pinks, when you say braining can that be done with ftp im thinking after defrosting yuck but if it works? I have asfr pinks Im thinking they are to big but IDK? These snakes are costing a few waisted pinkys thats for sure, I have to feed my other young snake though tonight so if they still wont eat at least one pink wont be waisted, I guess i can give my 2yr old corn the others although she isnt due for feeding for a couple days, I just hate wasting them.

RickersRodents
12-11-2009, 12:20 PM
Well I still haqvent gotten the other three to eat, ft, live, partial pinks, when you say braining can that be done with ftp im thinking after defrosting yuck but if it works? I have asfr pinks Im thinking they are to big but IDK? These snakes are costing a few waisted pinkys thats for sure, I have to feed my other young snake though tonight so if they still wont eat at least one pink wont be waisted, I guess i can give my 2yr old corn the others although she isnt due for feeding for a couple days, I just hate wasting them.

The fresher the better, but you can do it with F/T. How long has it been since the newbies have eaten or gone without eating total?

Asbit
12-11-2009, 03:49 PM
dakota..... all I use to brain is a very sharp paring knife, works like a charm and if you are squeamish like my husband, then just dedicate it to snake feeding, wash it and keep it separate. I literally cut right through the skull, which with pinks is so easy to do, the skull is very soft.

As for heating and housing, keep them in the separate tubs where you can provide the proper temps, because if your temps are off, they will refuse to eat. Only move them into the little deli cups for feeding. As well, if you are keeping them in one larger tank together, that can stress them out enough to make them refuse to eat.

Some of the main factors you want to consider are;
1. Keep them separated.
2. Make sure the husbandry is right, corns are forgiving but babies are the least forgiving ones and the easiest to stress out.
3. Improper husbandry causes stress, over handling stress, trying to often to feed causes stress, co-habbing causes stress and stress often causes refusal of feeds.
4. Trying to often to feed, will cause refusal of feeds.

Some things you DO WANT TO DO:
1. house separately
2. provide a temperature gradient, 83-85 on the warm side and 70-75 on the cool side
3. provide plenty if places to hide
4. provide clean water at all times
5. do not handle between attempted feeds
6. feed at dusk or early evening, simulating when they would eat in the wild
7. feed in a very small closed container, such as a deli cup with air holes
8. warm pinkie(in a ziploc baggie) with the hottest tap water you have and brain(slit head open so that some brain matter comes out)
9. place only pinkie and snake in deli cup and cover with a tea towel and do not peak for at least an hour.
10. if the pinkie has not been eaten on an hour place pinkie in ziploc bag and reheat in hot tap water for 1-2 min, place back in deli cup with snake.
11. place deli cup with snake and pinkie in the housing container, not on the heat side and leave over night, check to see if pinkie is gone in am.
12. if pinkie is still there in the am, let snake out of deli cup, toss pinkie and try again in 5 days.

Here is a list of other things(you can do to the pinkie after you heat it) that will often get a non-feeder started.
1. dip in tuna juice.
2. rub against raw chicken(this is scenting).
3. rub against the grease under the skin of KFC(this is scenting).
4. scent with lizard(anole works good), dead or alive, there is also a commercial product called lizard maker.
5. scent with frog, dead or alive.
6. scent with other rodents, either by getting soiled bedding from a pet shop and placing the f/t pink in a bag of it for a while or rubbing the f/t pink on another type of rodent.
7. dip in chicken broth.
8. brain and then gently hold snake and rub some of brain goo on snake's nose, it will then lick it and taste and smell it(hopefully enticing an interest in it) then place both in the deli cup.
9. try using a tiny bit larger container, that you can fit a very small hide in, place the pinkie's head just in the entrance of the hide and close the container, cover with a tea towel so the snake feels very secure, it will be dark and it will only have to come to the edge of the hide to get food.
10. remove snake's water 24 hrs before the feed, thus snake will be thirsty and then when heating pinkie do not warm in a baggie, just drop the pinkie in to hot water and let it get water logged, offer to snake and this sometimes works because the snake smells the water and goes for the pinkie because it is wet.
11. cut the head of the pinkie off and offer just it(do this while it is frozen put body back in freezer for later), sometimes they feel threatened by the size of the pinkie.
12. try getting pinkies from a different source sometimes snakes will be picky and will refuse rodents from one source and take them from another source.
13. dehydrate a frog or lizard and then grind in a small coffee grinder and roll warmed pinkie in the frog or lizard powder.
14. freeze a frog or lizard and then only partially thaw and partially skin it and wrap the pinkie in the skin(make sure to warm the pinkie with the skin on it)
15. wash pinkie with dish soap and rinse really well.
16. scent with day old chicks
17. put snake in deli cup with air holes wrap with tea towel and place in a purse or gym bag and take them for a small car ride(if you live in a cold area make sure to place the snake in a small cooler with a water bottle filled with warm water so they do not get cold), apparently the motion has worked for others in stimulating the appetite.
18. cut a pinkie in half lengthwise(messy) and offer both pieces in the deli cup, covered with the tea towel and no peaking for at least an hour.
19. tease feed- instruction below
How to tease feed as per Kathy Love
To begin with, I like to do this at dusk when they are more likely to be out cruising around. I have the f/t pinky ready to go and this is what I do.
a) pick up the snake, allow it to move around in my hands for a bit until it calms down and realizes I am not a monster.
b) gently but firmly restrain the snake with my left hand (I'm right handed) and allow 1-2 inches of its head to stick out while holding it so it can't go forward or backward.
c) holding the pinkie in my right hand, I bump the snake's neck (not head!) with the pinky and try to induce a strike. Some babies are too shy and will be frightened, others will strike. Sometimes they will strike once and try to get away, when this happens I let them move around in my hands a little before repositioning them to try again. They may miss and strike your finger, but it doesn't hurt(if they do get you do not yank your finger back you can damage their fine teeth).
d) if they strike at the pinkie, I hold still and let them think about it for a bit. They will either spit it out or decide to 'keep' it.
e) if they begin to swallow the pinkie I keep still and wait until they have swallowed it and it is well down their body before moving. Any movement can frighten them into spitting it back up. I try to do this in a comfortable chair with the TV on since it can take a while.
f) if it doesn't work, I leave them alone for at least 3 days before trying again so I will not condition them to fear food.
g) if it does work, the next feeding I see if they will eat on their own before tease feeding again. Most of the time by the third feeding they know it's food and don't need to be tease fed any longer.
20. place the snake and the pinkie in a paper bag and put it in the tank sealed shut to so the snake can not leave the bag( the idea is focusing the snake on the pinkie and it's smell).
21. scent the pinkie with dirty mouse bedding.
22. live day old pinkie.
23. cut the head almost completely off of a live pinkie, the fresh blood scent is different than in f/t and some will respond to this, be sure to severe it almost clean off and quickly so it is a humane as possible for the pinkie.

The following are generally for when it is getting desperate and the baby snake has not eaten in over a month. When starting with prey other than mice it can sometimes be hard to convert them.
24. live lizard(anole) captive bred not wild caught as wild caught are full of parasites and possible diseases which will cause you and the snake other problems.
25. live frog, again captive bred for the same reasons above.
26. day old chick parts

These are as many of the suggestions as I have managed to put together from the members on this site, I have used a few myself. The best advice anyone can give though is to make sure your husbandry is correct and that you are not stressing the little ones out.

Good luck hope this helps.:)

dakota11
12-13-2009, 10:43 PM
Thank you all so much for the replies and there should be a sticky on all those tips I used some and will remember for future. The other night I decided to go against all I have ever done and attempted to feed in a bin with bedding. ( I have always used feeding bins with my other snakes but never with bedding) anyways it worked. then tonight I tried the fourth one and yi[pii she or he ate. I did the gross braining thing without looking at what I was doing yuck but al least they all have eaten. Ill post pictures soon, didnt want to before they ate as I didnt want to get my hopes up to much before getting them to eat. btw one has very interesting head markings where it should go like a diamond on top is split neither parents had odd markings. This should not be as difficult on the next feeding right? the friend that incubated eggs is going to take two in a few days now that they have eaten. thanks again