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Emergency king snake help needed!!

danielle
12-31-2009, 11:16 PM
I am really freaking out right now I just found my new king in her water dish, in a knot, and drowning for no reason. I just happened to check on her and see a full shed hanging over the water dish and her nose under lifeless all twistd up. I pulled her out, dried her off especially around her nose, and she is now moving around like nothing happened even musking me which is a first for me btw. The water dish was no more than an inch deep and 4 inches long is this normal? Should I take her to the vet I'm sure theres water in her lung and I have no clue how long she was under? I don't want her to pass overnight:(

medusacoils
12-31-2009, 11:24 PM
Hey danielle, I'm sorry that you are going through this. Especially now! I would say that what you found, is as you described it. A snake, caught up in itself, in the middle of a shed. Sounds weird, but I am sure it can and probably has happened. I know that you have mentioned that she is more active now and that may be just it. At least that is what I am hoping. Maybe you averted a catastrophe, by finding her?!?!

I bet it would be hard to determine if she has water in her lungs. The question would be, "Can that affect her that quickly?" Maybe you should watch her for a while and see what she does. If things seem "normal" then maybe a checkup in the near future is needed. I'm not sure if an emergency visit is necessary. Maybe if she starts sneezing or if she starts laboring to breath? I'm also wondering if you should take her water dish out for the night?

Take it easy, keep us posted.

Wayne

danielle
12-31-2009, 11:29 PM
Water dish is gone and has been replaced with a very small small shallow cup. The thing is the shed was off of her and hanging over the bowl. Her eyes were blueish green when I pulled her out and now there dark again but she was completely twisted up and nose under. If I hadn't of looked my heart would be broken now I can't believe I even found her like that. She is tail rattling in the corner but I almost want to take her out and make her exercise which at least in humans helps if theres residual water in the lungs, but I'm not sure if its the same with snakes. My vets office is closed and I cn't find a 24 hr. herp vet in my area:( I just want her to be okay:(

danielle
12-31-2009, 11:33 PM
Should I be uping the temps?

medusacoils
12-31-2009, 11:35 PM
I know and my heart is aching for you right now! I'm sorry I can't be of more help for you right now. I just don't know a whole lot about this particular circumstance.

Just a thought, I know Kathy L, is always eager and happy to help out. She posts her number on her website. I'm not sure if she is up right. Maybe?!?!

Just a thought!

Wayne

medusacoils
12-31-2009, 11:36 PM
Should I be uping the temps?

I would, as a precaution. It's what I have done to battle respiratory infections. I don't think it would hurt!

Wayne

danielle
12-31-2009, 11:47 PM
I want to scream why can't it be the daytime when I can bug people,lol Well shes tail rattling, musking, and now lunging at me when I bug her, but I can't find anything on the net about dry drowning in snakes. As a matter of fact everything I've read says they don't drown, but its obvious they can:(

medusacoils
01-01-2010, 12:06 AM
Well you know Murphy's Law! I will keep you in my thoughts for the night. I will check on you in the morning and expect good news!

Happy New Year Danielle.

Wayne

danielle
01-01-2010, 12:13 AM
Happy new years to you and Christine too what a way to ring in the new year. I got this snake at 10:30 this morning and am already attached so she better be a healthy camper tomorrow.

wade
01-01-2010, 12:19 AM
Danielle, have you tried to blow into his cloaca?

Asbit
01-01-2010, 12:23 AM
Danielle I wish you and your little king all the best...and will also be checking in to see that she is ok in the am. Happy New Year!

danielle
01-01-2010, 12:27 AM
Danielle, have you tried to blow into his cloaca?

No, but I bet what she ejected out of it when I pulled her out would put you to shame:sidestep:

I love your inappropriateness Wade it makes me smile:)

wade
01-01-2010, 12:29 AM
That's me, Mr Inappropriate.

medusacoils
01-01-2010, 12:31 AM
That's me, Mr Inappropriate.

Mr. !!!! HAHAHAHAHA!! :roflmao: :roflmao:

Ya right!

Wayne ;)

danielle
01-01-2010, 12:32 AM
Thats why your the best Wade,lol I think everyone should have your sense of humor I needed the laugh:)

kathylove
01-01-2010, 03:16 AM
I can't say I have seen anything quite like that. I have seen some snakes become very lethargic BEFORE shedding, but not after. Maybe it had some kind of seizure? I can't think of what else would cause it, but I am not a vet.

I have heard of people getting aspirational pneumonia after a near drowning event. I would guess it might be possible for any animal with lungs, though I never heard of it in a snake. If I had come upon the snake, I would have held it upside down for a couple of minutes or more, trying to drain as much water as possible. And maybe do it a couple of more times over the first hour or so. Then I would remove the water as you did, and probably keep the very small bowl for quite a while, in case there is a repeat performance. I would probably offer a hotter than usual hot spot (with a place to escape the heat, of course). And of course, anything you can think of to reduce stress, as well.

If you know a herp vet who will talk to you on the phone during the day, I would ask about the possibility of any aspirational infection, or any other possible complication. A vet can't really diagnose over the phone, so they usually err on the side of caution and say to bring it in. The key question is to ask what they will do, other than just examine the snake. If they just want to examine and don't plan to do anything unless needed, and it seems that they are just being overly cautious, you may not need to go in. But if the vet seems to think that complications are likely enough to warrant preventative antibiotics, or some other treatment as a precaution, then maybe it is worth going for the treatment.

Even though I have not had great results myself in using herp vets, I would never discourage anyone from going in if it helps your peace of mind. Only you can make that decision after talking with a qualified herp vet on the phone.

I am sorry I can't give you better advice, based on experience. But I have not had to go through that particular experience - so far.

Please update us as I am always interested in hearing about various problems and their resolution.

Good luck!

danielle
01-01-2010, 10:38 AM
Kathy, Thanks for weighing in I just talked to my vet who said the same things,lol He asked if the snake could have had a seizure, but I have no clue because I didn't see this happen and theres no way for him to test and see if this happened like in humans. I'm going to watch for signs of an RI, but she's active and pissy this morning which is good.

The way she knotted her body up made him think a seizure was possible, but this morning she tied herself in knots when I went to catch her, and was in knots in her deli when I got her. I'm thinking this is her response to stress and am moving her cage to a quieter spot, keeping the temps on one side at 90, and leaving her be for a few days. The only thing I can think of is the dogs or kids spooked her at the end of her shed when she was in the water and she knotted herself up to feel safe...I hope for no more repeat performances but she has a very shallow water bowl right now just in case:)

LBoz
01-01-2010, 10:48 AM
Jesus, D, that must have happened shortly after we spoke? That would have scared the crap outta me! Glad to hear that she's acting fine today. Keep us posted on her.

danielle
01-01-2010, 10:56 AM
It did Lori I had put my son to bed and made yummy toasted croissants (sp) with nutella for my daughter and I, ate, and checked in on the new one. It was so scary, but she's higher up now where I hope she can't feel the vibration from the kids and dogs going by to reduce stress. The vet sees no reason for meds yet because she's so tiny and he doesn't want to sedate her to xray her lungs anyway. The fact that she's still here and active makes him think I got her just in time and water in her lung must be small or nonexistent. Fingers crossed, but I think she'll be okay:)

LBoz
01-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Putting him in a quieter spot will probably help. I had my adult king in the living room and I never saw him. I moved him to the bedroom and now he's out all the time. I'm glad to hear that he's doing well.

kathylove
01-01-2010, 11:32 AM
If she keeps tying herself in knots to the point that she can't easily extract herself, then I would suspect some sort of neurological problem. It could be something that gets better, or worse, with time. If it was caused by some environmental factor, such as a toxin, it might get better. If it is congenital, it could get better or worse - who knows? Hopefully she will grow out of it and it will be of no concern as time goes on.

Glad to see you have a vet who is willing to give you enough info over the phone for you to make an informed decision about what to do next.

medusacoils
01-01-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm not trying to freak you out, but I am just wondering. With my limited experience, I haven't seen or heard of a snake, continuously tying itself in a knot. That's just odd. I'm wondering if Kathy is right and this thing could be some kind of neurological disorder?

As I was reading this with Christine, she thought of something, too. I know that sometimes when a snake is distressed or in pain from an internal problem, they will sometimes bite themselves in that area. Maybe you can weigh in on this Kathy, but do you think this could be the snakes way of dealing with such a circumstance?

I believe you mentioned this is a fairly new addition. Have you contacted the breeder in regard to this?

Wayne

danielle
01-01-2010, 12:00 PM
The breeder is a member here and a good guy who I am sure wouldn't have sold her knowing there were any issues. She came in yesterday morning pretty cold even with a heatpack and proper packaging so I assumed the knots were because she was cold and trying to conserve heat? I am hoping this is her weird response to stress because she slithers normal, holds her head normally, doesn't fall, or slither backwards, and overall looks perfectly normal and healthy...she's cruising the cage now trying to escape. If it happens again I'll take her in, but it seems the vet agrees waiting is a good idea since she's so new.

wade
01-01-2010, 12:06 PM
I hope it is all forgotten by tomorrow Danielle, good luck. Sounds promising this morning.

bekers71
01-01-2010, 12:16 PM
Danielle, have you tried to blow into his cloaca?

LMAO :roflmao: Wade you sure know how to put laughter into a situation. That was too funny.


Danielle sorry your snake is having this issue. Hopefully things will be just fine. If the snake is cruising a whole lot, maybe go ahead an offer a small snack. Kings are notorious for being hungry. So maybe a little some thing will help it relax a bit. I know the general rule is to let them acclimate for a week but I don't see some thing small doing any harm.

danielle
01-01-2010, 12:22 PM
I know the snake had a huge meal last Saturday and I want her active to move any moisture that may be in the lung out. I'm going to feed Sunday I think but she is all over the place right now...I thought florida kings were active at night and easterns during the day- am I wrong?

bekers71
01-01-2010, 12:27 PM
I thought florida kings were active at night and easterns during the day- am I wrong?

I'm not real sure about that. I have cali kings and they are active any time they are hungry. So they are active all the time. LOL

danielle
01-01-2010, 12:29 PM
Great,lol this wee girl is all over the tank right now:)

kathylove
01-01-2010, 12:50 PM
I don't think it is really possible to guess what might be wrong, if anything, at this point. You will just have to wait and see. I think EXTREME, but not fatal, cold could do some neurological damage, but probably not as much, or as quickly, as extreme heat. Just can't really say - wait and watch.

Bill has hunted a lot of kings over the years. He said he considers them (in the wild) to have leanings towards diurnal activity, but that they seem to be happy to take advantage of the best temps. They tend towards nocturnal in the heat of the summer, and diurnal during cooler days / seasons. He has not noticed any difference between Florida and eastern kings.

danielle
01-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Thanks so much Kathy heres a picture of my trouble child,lol
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/dncnwp/DSC_0080.jpg

bekers71
01-01-2010, 01:04 PM
Sure is a pretty girl.

Asbit
01-01-2010, 01:33 PM
Danielle, glad to hear she is active this morning and that the vet feels it is ok to wait and see how she does, sounds positive. She is a very cute little thing. Again wishing all the best for you and her! I will keep following to see how she does.

danielle
01-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Thanks all she acts like nothing even happened so hopefully this will not be something I ever experience again!!

wade
01-01-2010, 01:55 PM
That's great, can you give us a little smile now?

medusacoils
01-01-2010, 02:06 PM
What a pretty little knotty girl! ;)

Does she have a name yet? How about Knotia or something along those line?

Wayne

danielle
01-01-2010, 02:31 PM
LOL Wayne I was thinking bow tie like the pasta and Wade is this better sweetie :D,lol

Nanci
01-01-2010, 03:27 PM
Farfale!!Glad she's apparently okay so far!

danielle
01-01-2010, 08:07 PM
Okay so now I'm really freaked this is how I just found her...
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/dncnwp/DSC_0082.jpg

after etting her again before she turned blue this time...
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/dncnwp/DSC_0083.jpg

What am I going to do she tries to drown herself in even the smallest water bowl? Vet appointment I guess first thing tomorrow:(

LBoz
01-01-2010, 08:12 PM
I'd remove her water dish altogether for the night, then maybe put in a condiment cup that she can't fit into.

LBoz
01-01-2010, 08:13 PM
p.s. Are you sure there are no mites on her that might be forcing her into the water?

bekers71
01-01-2010, 08:15 PM
Wow! That is the craziest thing I've ever seen. I'm thinking Kathy hit the nail on the head with thinking maybe a neurological issue. Let us know what the vet decides tomorrow. I'm really interested in what they have to say. I sure hope it's some thing simple that can be remedied fast.

danielle
01-01-2010, 08:17 PM
Yes I looked over her with a loupe and she's clean just trying to commit suicide apparently and I'm a little freaked right now.

LBoz
01-01-2010, 08:19 PM
((((Danielle)))) I'd be freaked, too. And I just saw that I missed your call. Sorry, my phone was dead. Need to chat?

Nanci
01-01-2010, 08:20 PM
That is very, very strange. Well, snakes can survive by being hand-watered. That's what thet guy on YouTube does, VenomKeeper. (Yeah, that sounds encouraging, doesn't it...) I guess I'd keep an eye out to make sure she's pooping. My FK likes to go in his water bowl. Like nearly every time.

danielle
01-01-2010, 08:46 PM
I'm at my neighbors now drinking morer wine,lol but yes her water bowl is gone and will be until tomorrow when she is seen. I have afeeling the vet is going to tell me to use an even smaller bowl since anything neurological can't be worked with:(

wade
01-01-2010, 08:47 PM
Danielle, that is just too weird to understand. I have never seen anything like that. I have no explaination.

Wine is fine, tequila is better.

Asbit
01-01-2010, 09:09 PM
Ohhh Danielle I am so sorry to see this, I was so hoping things were going to be ok with here. I honestly, don't know what to tell you except that my prayers go out to you and that I understand your worry and attachment, I am the same way with my babies.

bekers71
01-01-2010, 09:13 PM
Danielle, that is just too weird to understand. I have never seen anything like that. I have no explaination.

Wine is fine, tequila is better.

Is it better with mouse cubes? :-puke01:

wade
01-01-2010, 09:35 PM
It never ends. Even to this day sometimes when I burp I can taste fuzzies.

Teddy Roosevelt
01-01-2010, 10:02 PM
It never ends. Even to this day sometimes when I burp I can taste fuzzies.
This sounds like an interesting story...

kathylove
01-02-2010, 01:09 AM
Keeps getting stranger! If you have the time, maybe you can just soak her once per day for a 15 - 30 minutes while you are doing something that allows you to supervise - surfing the Web, watching TV, talking on the phone, etc. Then you can rescue her if needed, and can remove the water the rest of the time, at least until the vet can give you some better idea of what to do.

The_Thunderer
01-02-2010, 02:44 AM
Wow, Danielle. I've never EVER heard of this kind of thing and hope that she stops her suicide rampage for you. I think what others said about having her in a more quiet spot might help. I know you're also a pretty concientious person, but it wouldn't hurt to check the temps again and be sure that they're in the right range.

Whatever it is, she's WAY to pretty to be doing this... and I'm crossing my fingers for you and her.

Please do keep us up to date...

danielle
01-02-2010, 02:50 AM
It is now almost 3 am my time and I am still watching her. I called my vets emergency line and talked to him again so she will be seen tomorrow and hopefully we'll have a better idea of why this is happening. Her warm side is 85 and cool side in the 70's right now so I think her temps are fine. I emailed my vet a pic of her set-up and he sees no issues with things at all. Honestly I have had many animals shipped to me in these temps so I can't blame them either and other than that I really have no clue what else to do:(

The_Thunderer
01-02-2010, 02:58 AM
I'm so sorry, Danielle. I DO know how it is to be worried SICK over our little ones. I'll continue hoping for the very best and will have you and your little king in my thoughts throughout the night.

danielle
01-02-2010, 02:58 AM
Will soaking once a day for 20 minutes provide her with enough water? If so I am more than willing to take that on I will mention that to my vet and get his opinion...he's a herp vet that owns snakes himself and he has never heard of this from a snake. How would I know if she is in pain though or unhappy? She's active right now and seems normal to me.

The_Thunderer
01-02-2010, 03:01 AM
I was thinking about the "water once a day" thing and think I'd do that if this were happening to me... but I'm no expert... so what I think/say has no merit whatsoever.

Definitely something I'd be talking to the vet about.

kathylove
01-02-2010, 10:59 AM
I doubt that most corns in the wild get the opportunity to drink more often than once per day. Maybe they lap some dew if it is heavy enough and they are thirsty. But most probably are not lucky enough to have water available any time they want it. Once per day should work fine for at least a temporary solution. Hopefully your vet will have a better long term solution for you.

You could always provide a shallow jar lid (like from peanut butter, etc) full of water in addition, if you feel better that way. She would really have to work at it to drown in that. But I would wait to see if the vet can illuminate any causes and solutions, first.

Nanci
01-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Did she get cold when she was shipped??

danielle
01-02-2010, 11:54 AM
We are back and I have a crashing headache from too much vino, but he sees NOTHING wrong with her other than the fact those pics show she can't be trusted with a water source. She slithers normal, reacts to noise and light looking in the right direction, fights when being held...all normal hatchling stuff. No mites or stuck shed and "seems" apparently healthy. We will be keeping an eye on her and leaving a very very small water source in which she can't submerge herself in indefinitely.

The temps she was shipped in apparently were not cold enough to cause damage and the box wasn't crushed so we doubt there was damage to her in transit. He does however think she has a seizure disorder we just haven't seen it happen so that can't be confirmed either. $75 bucks later and no answers, but no real bad news either.

bekers71
01-02-2010, 12:17 PM
Well it's good to hear it's nothing major. Maybe this will sort of disappear as she ages.

Just an idea for a water solution--I'm wondering if a bottle like a rat/hamster water bottle would work? Snakes suck up water and there is always water around the little balls at the end of the spout. Even if she began to drink around it, most likely her nose would move it enough for more water to seep around the ball. Those things constantly leak. So if you could set one up low towards the cage bottom and put a jar lid under it, that would work? I know, crazy idea! :crazy01:

kathylove
01-02-2010, 12:20 PM
If it was a person, it would have been hooked up to EEG machine to check brain activity, and maybe diagnose seizure disorder. I have a relative who takes meds to control seizures. But I never heard of medicating a herp for it. What was his suggestion for watering her, or any other suggestions he had?

wade
01-02-2010, 12:24 PM
That's a good idea Becky, I bet a snake could drink from one of those bottles. Danielle, hang in there babe.

kathylove
01-02-2010, 12:30 PM
I have always wanted to try to see if snakes could learn to drink from one, and have discussed it with other breeders in the past. I think they could, because just as you said, there is usually a drip hanging from the tip, which should encourage drinking. And I also thought a saucer or jar lid underneath would be good for catching excess. I always had too many snakes to properly monitor them, so never did it.

But this could be a great excuse for an experiment. You could set up the water bottle with saucer underneath, and still offer a soak once per day. After a while (especially if you see the snake drink from the bottle), you could offer a soak every other day, and watch to see if the snake appeared very thirsty when offered water. If you are able to successfully train a snake to get all of its water from a rodent water bottle, think of how helpful that would be to people who want to offer clean water to snakes, but can't change the water bowl everyday.

danielle
01-02-2010, 12:37 PM
Really he just wants me to use a water source too small for her to submerge in and watch her for an actual seizure. However, he has never seen a snake have a seizure and said he wants to do some research. He had wondered if she could have fallen into the water while trying to escape, but after seeing my cage its not tall enough for her to fall anywhere and the dish is soft plastic. Her lungs had no sounds of water, whezzing, or popping which is good and he looked as stumped as me and everyone here because other than a freak accident snakes don't typically drown in their water especially twice in a 24 hr. period. He's going to talk to some other vets and see if they have heard of anything like this and in the meantime I'm supposed to feed as usual and keep the water shallow. I'll be bringing a fecal in when I get one because parasites can cause strange things to happen but until then the appointment was kind of a waste.

Does anyone know any other herp vets who might be willing to hear this and see if they have any clues?

danielle
01-02-2010, 12:39 PM
Me thinks I'll try that Kathy at this point it can't hurt,lol and it would be cool to see. I'll probably put a little water in the jar lid anyway just in case, but how will I know if she is using it other than signs of dehydration? Urates I guess and if I can catch her in the act...

Nanci
01-02-2010, 01:03 PM
I think the fact that she was in the water bowl twice points out that she wanted to be in there for some purpose that we humans can't figure out. Yet. I don't believe she could just happen to be drinking/swimming and have a seizure right at that moment two times in one day. So if we assume that she was in there for a reason, and knowing that snakes can hold their breath for quite a long time, it's probably safe to say she didn't accidentally inhale any water. Too bad you can't set up some sort of video camera like a web cam to record what she does all night, to see if she is still attracted to her smaller water source, or exhibits any strange behavior anywhere else.

kathylove
01-02-2010, 01:04 PM
If you keep offering her water / soaking (supervised) every day or every other day, you will notice if she immediately starts sucking up water like she is dying of thirst, or if she casually just takes a drink. That will be your best clue as to whether she is getting enough water from a bottle or jar lid. Also, if you check her skin (look, and also touch it) every day, you will notice a difference if she starts look or feel dehydrated.

bekers71
01-02-2010, 01:25 PM
That's a good idea Becky, I bet a snake could drink from one of those bottles. Danielle, hang in there babe.

Thanks Wade. I figured if a snake can suck water off of the side of a tote that's been misted why not from a bottle.

wade
01-02-2010, 01:33 PM
I think the fact that she was in the water bowl twice points out that she wanted to be in there for some purpose that we humans can't figure out. Yet. I don't believe she could just happen to be drinking/swimming and have a seizure right at that moment two times in one day. So if we assume that she was in there for a reason, and knowing that snakes can hold their breath for quite a long time, it's probably safe to say she didn't accidentally inhale any water. Too bad you can't set up some sort of video camera like a web cam to record what she does all night, to see if she is still attracted to her smaller water source, or exhibits any strange behavior anywhere else.

Nanci has made some good points as well. Why does it want to be in the water tied in a knot? Does the water induce a seizer? If left in the water would it stick his nose up every once in a while and take a breath?

Danielle, if you have lots of time with nothing to do you might watch a see how it comes to be knotted in the water.

Kokopelli
01-02-2010, 01:36 PM
Personally, and I may be off here... the snake is just being goofy... yeah I know it sounds absurd, but God knows snakes like to sometimes get themselves stuck in horrid positions/places... unaware that they can end up being hurt.
The coiled pose you posted doesn't seem that odd to me... sure, it's not common, but I don't think it's the outcome of a seizure.

If you want, you can try using a webcam on her and see if anything's weird going on.

I have a LTR who loved to slide over the thermometer to get stuck on the glue sticker... I once found him flailing with 2/3 of his body up in the air... tail up... sounds like fun eh?

A tiny water dish and supervision is all you can do at this point... but I really don't think this is a neurological problem... the fact that this happened twice in the same manner in the same place makes me believe it is behavior/environment related.

Asbit
01-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Danielle, this vet was so helpful to me over the phone for my Leopard Geckos. I phoned there because they specialize in birds and exotics. I spoke with Jennifer and she gave all the details to the vet and then I got a response and apparently they are consulted often by other avian and herp vets. They did not care that I was Canadian and even put my information in the computer and volunteered to co-care for the Leos with a vet of my choice here.

I believe Jennifer said she works weekends, anyway here is the link to their website. Maybe they can be of some help with your little one. They are in Seattle Washington.
http://www.avianexoticanimalhospital.com/index.html

danielle
01-02-2010, 01:40 PM
I would love to see "it" happen since I have only caught her after the fact. I do have a video camera though and like Nanci's idea of playing spy at night when she's out I'll have to figugre out how to mount it. I also just found a water bottle, but her cage is too short and I have no clue how to modify it so I can leave it in there upright...any ideas? Her name is officially trouble btw,lol I think it fits.

danielle
01-02-2010, 01:42 PM
Thanks Asbit I will have to call them:)

danielle
01-03-2010, 09:56 AM
Just an update my little king has not been found in knots or in water again and just ate he first pink here with no problem:D

bekers71
01-03-2010, 09:59 AM
Woohooo! :cheers: Here's to many more days of non suicide attempts.

danielle
01-03-2010, 10:11 AM
LOL Becky I know!!! I am hoping the vet was wrong and the cold just made her a little temporarily goofy because she seems 100% to me:)

RobbiesCornField
01-03-2010, 10:30 AM
:cheers:
Congrats on the meal and suicide attempt free day! Please keep us posted. :)

The_Thunderer
01-03-2010, 11:20 AM
WHOOO HOOO!!! Great news, Danielle! I HAVE been thinking of you and the little king. Glad to hear she's got this "glitch" and milestone behind her!

TandJ
01-03-2010, 12:27 PM
Hopefully the little king does alright... I think I would be more than concerned enough though to contact the person who you bought her from... You said that the person is from this forum as well, so they should be more than well aware of whats going on from just reading your thread here..

Regards... Tim of T and J

danielle
01-03-2010, 12:38 PM
I guess if I thought the person knew there was an issue with this snakes health beforehand I would...but in all honesty I don't think they did. I am keeping a shallow water source in with her and keeping a close eye on her, but other than that I don't blame the breeder at all and would purchase from them again. Once an animal leaves the breeder a number of things can happen in transit beyond their control and though she was shipped to a hub and not my door, sent with heat, and a durable box who knows what her trip was like. The vet doesn't think the cold would have done it, but for all I know some fedex DB dropped, tossed, or banged her around before she came to me.

Since the vet suspected a random seizure from the way her body was twisted in the pic that may be the case too, but the thing is unless you see that happen you have no clue and as of yet I haven't seen this. She moves normal, eats, and is very active not indicating any permanent damage has been done so for now I am thinking this was a freak thing and playing it safe with a shallow water bowl.

wade
01-03-2010, 12:42 PM
I think you've got it Danielle. I hope this is finished for you. Eating is always a good sign.

LBoz
01-03-2010, 12:49 PM
I'm so glad to hear this update, D. It's also wonderful to hear that you hold no blame toward the breeder...if I hadn't seen the way my own shipment was delivered to me that was sent from Daytona, I wouldn't believe how carelessly the delivery people handle a box labeled "live animals." I happened to be out in the yard when my dummerils was delivered, and the guy literally was tossing the box around like a globetrotter with a basketball. I shouted at him to stop because there was a snake in the box, which caused him to then practically rocket the box at me and run off like a little girl. Idiot.

Glad to hear that he's eating. That's always a good sign. I hope you have no further incidents with the wee lass!

Susan
01-03-2010, 01:26 PM
I really wish I had seen this thread at the beginning instead of the end as I might have been able to ease your mind a bit. I have found my snakes, both kings and corns, completely submerged in their water bowls for extended periods of time (hours), sometimes all knotted up, sometimes just in a normal coiled position, I've seen it before a shed and after a shed. It's just something they want to do. I'm sure they come up for air when they need to, but duck back down when I come close as if they are trying to hide from me. I just let them enjoy their bath unless it's dinner time and I need to clean their tub, weigh them and feed them. And 9 times out of 10, they're right back in the water dish, whether they ate their dinner or not, and have a look that screams "Will you just leave me alone!"

danielle
01-03-2010, 01:35 PM
Good to know now Susan,lol but I'm glad I got a vet check anyway it never hurts. So should I give her a normal water bowl? She was limp the first time I found her and in knots. Her eyes and top of head had even changed to a blueish green color and she didn't move until I untied her and rubbed her a bit. Maybe I answered my own question I'll keep it shallow and small until she is bigger, but I'm glad someone else has seen this:)

wade
01-03-2010, 01:59 PM
And next time blow on his cloacha.

danielle
01-03-2010, 03:10 PM
I'll let you do it as much as you talk about it I am thinking you have a lot of experience with this:D

Susan
01-03-2010, 06:48 PM
It's always better safe than sorry. I must have missed the part about her color change and being limp at first. All that my brain cell registered was that she was normal and even musking when you took her out...typical of a snake that was just enjoying a bath.