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Reggie Regurged

maxfox426
01-30-2010, 09:09 AM
Now, I think I know how to handle this, but I wanted to double-check as this is the first regurge I've dealt with.

I did find and read the following linked thread with Kathy Love's regurge FAQ, as well as a few other threads that I found using Search.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

Reggie was fed Thursday night (1/28). I found the regurge this morning (1/30). Now I need to wait at least 10 days from now, and then try again with a smaller size. As long as he keeps it down, I should continue with the smaller size for at least six meals, each meal about 7-10 days apart. Should I just bump him back down to fuzzies, or all the way to pinkies to start?

Okay, he recently graduated up to crawlers. This was his second meal on them, and according to the Munson plan he was more than ready. Now I am worried though that perhaps the prey size was a factor in the regurg.

I also checked his temps, including the maximum high/low over the past two days. He averages about 85.4*F, 83*F at the lowest, but it looks like it spiked once to 88.8*F. So that could be a cause as well. :(

Finally, looking at his records, it has been a while since his last shed, and I've read that some snakes will regurge if they are in blue or close to it. I didn't *think* he was preparing for a shed, as I haven't seen his eyes cloud over at all, but that isn't to say I just missed it. So there's another possible explanation.

I'm not sure how else I can narrow this down to pinpoint one precise cause. I'm definitely going to keep a closer eye on his UTH and max/min temps... I already check every 1-2 days as it is, but if it spikes again I want to know WHEN and WHY it is doing that. And I guess I also just wait to see if he ends up shedding in the next few days. Though I really doubt that is the issue, who knows. As for the prey size, I can only step it back and work him back up.

I have read in the past about using NutriBac on the first feeding after a regurge, but now that I am reviewing all the info it is sounding more like an "optional" sort of thing. What do you think I should do in this case?

Reggie is a yearling now, almost exactly. I've had him for almost 10mos with no feeding issues whatsoever.

I just hope I'm taking the right steps here...

Rich in KY
01-30-2010, 09:19 AM
If it were me, I would bump him back to pinks just to be on the same side.

I would not think that the temp spike up to 88* would cause a regurge, but it is possible. You may never pinpoint exactly what caused it. But, if it only happens this once, it is not necessary to know exactly.

Using Nutribac after a regurge can only help. Many, many of the people on here highly recommend it. I personally have never used it. I did have a girl that regurged multiple times that I nursed back to health without about a year and a half ago.

LBoz
01-30-2010, 09:53 AM
Max, where are you in Indy? I'm in the Carmel/Westfield area. I had a bottle of Nutribac that I sent to Trickster that never showed up at his door nor returned to mine, but I took some out and still have it. You're welcome to some if you decide you need it.

Nanci
01-30-2010, 09:53 AM
I'd go back to pinks, too. Maybe larger pinks. I'd cut the pink, after thawing, into thirds. I've never had a snake refuse a chopped up mouse- it's like they think they are getting more! I would also go with Nutribac. It can't hurt, and it most likely helps. It's cheap. I use Nutribac for a year after a regurge, and I use a fairly heavy dusting of it. Think flouring a chicken piece before frying! And I use chopped up mice as far through the fuzzy stage as I can handle it. Eventually the size of the mouse makes the center section, especially, pretty non-aerodynamic, and it becomes pretty gruesome, too! The snakes don't mind at all. After that I do super-slitting, which is slitting the back and sides of the prey item, maybe six or so times on each area.

If your husbandry is good, you may not be able to pinpoint a cause. If one of my snakes regurges, and it is definitely not a prey-size step up, I chalk it up to not-blue-enough-to-notice-yet and never feed that snake in blue again, if I can determine that, which, in the very early stages is a behavior-based judgment.

I recently had a double regurge with two snakes, on the same thermostat, in the same type of set-up, with no temp spikes. It was one of the coldest time periods I have ever experienced here in FL, so my house temp was hovering in the mid-60s at night. Neither has shed since then, so unless they are having a very, very drawn out blue period, it isn't that. (Both are very light, so I can't tell!) One had been moved from small pinks to larger pinks, the other had been on the same size hoppers for quite a few feedings. I don't know.

Well, good luck with the recovery and as long as you manage it conservatively your snake should be back to normal in no time. Just don't rush moving the prey size up too rapidly. It's much safer to have a hungry snake than a second regurge.

Nroc
01-30-2010, 10:12 AM
The good news is that your snake is a year old. You have plenty of downsizing options for your feeders. When a hatchling regurges, feeding heads can be a pain in the...

At least now, you can still feed a complete meal to your snake instead of mouse parts. I am sure that your snake will recover from this!

There is some opposition to NutriBac however. I am not sure how much faith one should put into the opposition, but here is the link. I wish there was an actual link to the study that he mentions here:

http://thetegu.com/showthread.php?8752-Nutribac-DF-has-HARMFUL-bacteria

maxfox426
01-30-2010, 05:03 PM
LBoz, I just sent you a PM.

Nanci, your mention of colds temps made me go back to check my thermometers. I had been checking the temps on the warm side of the viv, because I was worried that the UTH/thermostat malfunctioned, but I didn't think to check the COOL side of the tank. :( I see now that his cool side temps dipped down to 59*F last night. So now I'm thinking the regurge is either related to that, or he's about to shed (which I kinda doubt.)

Thank you all for the advice and encouragement. I feel so badly about this. I've been trying my best to do things right so that this would be prevented, but alas, here we are...

I really hope he's going to be okay. :( I'm not sure I could forgive myself if I lose him.

Nanci
01-30-2010, 05:12 PM
He'll be fine! He's a big snake, not a fragile baby. If you keep any amount of snakes, it's bound to happen sometime.

maxfox426
01-30-2010, 05:19 PM
He'll be fine! He's a big snake, not a fragile baby. If you keep any amount of snakes, it's bound to happen sometime.

I know that everything *should* be okay, but it's just hard to shake that feeling of dread. For the past 9-10 months I've been reading about how serious/life-threatening a regurge can be... it's SCARY!

Thank you again for your help. :)

bitsy
01-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Don't worry. As a one-off and followed up appropriately, a regurge is a small hiccup.

The big problems are caused by repeated regurges. Probably not a scenario that you'll have to face here.

Nanci
01-30-2010, 07:03 PM
He will be okay! And when you have more, and it happens to a baby, you'll be a little more prepared and have a successful recovery under your belt to give you confidence.

It's serious/life-threatening if the owner doesn't heed our advice, and doesn't wait for the stomach to recover, and doesn't reduce the prey size drastically, and doesn't take a long time to return the snake to the size of prey it was eating before the regurge. As long as you treat the snake with some semblance of the established regurge protocol you have next to nothing to worry about. Your guy is _way_ beyond the age where a congenital defect could present itself.

maxfox426
02-04-2010, 10:17 PM
Just wanted to give a little update. Nothing much to report other than I've been putting a bit of NutriBAC (Thanks again, Lori!) in Reggie's water. Things seem to be going along fine, though he has been staying in hiding most of the time. I'll try feeding him a pinky on Wednesday... fingers crossed it stays down!

The last time I changed his water, though, he did crawl out of hiding and tried to climb into my hands. :rolleyes: I know I'm not supposed to handle him for 10 days, but he made it very difficult. (I didn't pick him up, just held still and let him crawl through until he got bored and went back to his hide.)

So yeah, I'm feeling much better than I did earlier this week. :) Thank you all for the advice and reassurance!!!

covato78
02-04-2010, 10:44 PM
HANG IN THERE GIRL ! It's hard I know I'm dealing w a regurg right now also they will bpth be OK I'm eternally optimistic