So we had a regurge

[JamieK10]

So I've had my snake now, an 09, for about three weeks. Waited about 6 days after purchasing to feed a f/t pinkie, and the first feeding went well. Didn't have any poop, but from things I've read on here, that isn't anything to get terribly concerned about for a younger snake so I gave the second feeding after another 6 days (this past Saturday).

I only started handling 72 hours after the first feeding, for no more than 15 minutes or so per day (only about 5 minutes the first couple of days).

I've been inspecting the cage very closely over the past week or so to check for any poop so I can clean it, and last night I noticed in the corner what I at first thought was poop, but find out to be the regurged mouse. I was a little surprised because he/she hadn't eaten in four days and I thought a regurge would happen sooner to eating than that.

Temps are right around 83-84.5 on the warm side and around 71 on the cool side. He/she has about 4 different placed to hide throughout the viv and seems to split time pretty equally amongst them. I noticed the humidity was a little low last week (around 30%, it's a little dry in our area this time of year) so I've been misting the cage a couple times a day to keep the humidity above 40%.

I've been feeding by placing the f/t pinkie in a shallow deli cup (the same one he/she was brought home in) and placing it in the tank. Sir Hiss (guess we will have to change the name to Madam Hiss if we find out it's a girl) usually comes right out, eats, and after about 15 minutes heads back into the hide right above the UTH and hangs our there for at least a day or two. Right now the plan is to wait probably until next Saturday or Sunday (about 10 days) and feed a head, and then continue to follow Kathy Love's guide in the FAQ post in this section, until, hopefully, the little guy or gal returns to full health.

Even though this is my first snake, I thought the basic care was pretty good so I'm hoping this is a hiccup or fluke because everything else seems okay, at lease to my unexperienced eye. The snake has not yet shed since I have had it, so I guess there is a good possibility that we are getting close to that time, and there's a small possibility that this could be the culprit?

I did notice something strange the night before the regurge. I'm not sure what morph the snake is (need to post a picture soon), but the belly is white, almost clear looking. It's difficult to describe, but I noticed a couple areas of black in the belly, one small section closer to the tail, and a slightly larger area near the middle of the snake. I assumed at the time this was simply the snakes first two feedinds making their way to the snake's rear to be disposed of. Is this what I was seeing or is this a more serious problem.

Seems like these regurges aren't a huge problem as long as they are treated carefully. I'm going to take things very slowly, not handle the snake for several weeks, and follow the sound advice of the great people on this forum.

I was NEVER a reptile person growing up, let alone a snake person, in fact I was a little terrified of snakes as a kid (probably because I was such a big Indiana Jones fan :)), but I've grown quite attached to Sir Hiss. These animals are really fascinating, and a joy to watch move. I'll keep everyone updated on progress.

Sorry for being so long winded. I'm not entirely sure if I'm really asking for advice or just retracing my steps aloud to make sure I didn't make any major mistakes along the way!

[Nroc]

Temps are right around 83-84.5 on the warm side and around 71 on the cool side. He/she has about 4 different placed to hide throughout the viv and seems to split time pretty equally amongst them.

I'll go ahead and ask this before any of the experts show up...

How are you measuring the temps on the warm and cold side? What is the device used?

Where are you measuring the temps? At the substrate, above the substrate, or down on top of the glass?

Are you using a UTH? How are you regulating it? Are you using a heat lamp?

[Nanci]

I'll read this in depth after work, but the dark spots are probably an internal organ and a poop. If you hold a light colored baby up to an intense light, you can even see the lung move! Baby snakes are very see-through. I wouldn't worry about _that_ aspect at all.

[Nanci]

And it's not at all unusual for a regurge to occur several days after feeding. And the smell isn't _so_ horrible for a baby snake that if you haven't been exposed to it previously, you'd notice it immediately, necessarily.

AND, not to do with your case but just for future reference for anyone, if a small snake regurges into the water bowl, you can't smell it at all...

[Nanci]

I can't find anything that would cause a regurge. How big was the pink in comparison to the diameter of the snake?? Has he been active since then? (If not, it's possible he was going blue and you couldn't tell). Are you positive it was a regurge?

[JamieK10]

Thanks for the responses.

Using a UTH controlled by one of the zoo-med rheostats. Not using a thermostat atm. We live in a three level townhouse so we can't drop the temp much at night with three kids or the upstairs just gets too cold. The house is set at 70 all the time and his cage is literally right next to the thermostat so I don't see any househould ambient air changes causing a change in his tank. I try to check everyday before I leave for work, after I get home, and right before I go to bed. The lowest I have noticed the temp was something like 82.9 and the highest was 84.5. I guess it certainly couldn't hurt to head out and get one. Both sides are monitored by digital thermometers with probes mounted directly on the glass under the substrate. All pretty standard stuff from things I learned directly from this site.

Nanci, fairly positive it was a regurge. Looked slightly smaller than the pinkie, was a darkish gray in color, appeared to still have the skin intact, and you could make out the shape of the head of the pinkie. I think it was the appropriate size, perhaps even a little less than 1 and a half times the width of his body. I DID NOT cut clits before feeding. I'll probably try this from now on though.

No, he has not been nearly as active since then, and, come to think of it, was not as active before the feeding either. For the first couple weeks we had him, you could almost set a clock to him. He would come out around 8:15 and explore the viv for several hours, but hasn't done that for a couple weeks. I did not notice the "blueish gray eye" symptoms that I've read so much about, but it's very possible I just missed it, not knowing exactly what to look for.

[Nanci]

Did the suspected regurge smell horrible? Like a dead rotting corpse?

[JamieK10]

No, I read your comment about smell in the previous post, but I don't really remember it smelling horrible. We also have a 9 month old baby and sometimes those diapers linger and smell like a dead rotting corpse :). I'm guessing you are thinking it possibly was not a regurge?

[Nanci]

Well, the thing that makes me suspicious that it was a regurge is the description, because the poos from my baby snakes are like black smears, not formed at all. However, very nearly every regurge I have smelled has been a very definite rotting smell. Not like baby poo at all.

If you can't positively rule it out, then it's best to just go ahead and treat it as if it were a regurge, even if it isn't. That doesn't hurt anything, whereas if you decide it wasn't, and it was, that _is_ dangerous.

[JamieK10]

Nanci, thanks so much for your input.

The viv is in an area right in between our main family area with the TV and the kitchen so it is pretty heavily traveled. With my wife being home during the day, I'm sure someone would have noticed a horrible smell.

But I agree, I expected the poop to be much more like liquid than a solid. The suspected regurge was also a little sticky to touch so I'm still going to stick with my initial reaction... maybe I should have taken a picture lol.

He's still been pretty inactive so maybe he is close to shedding time. I be very careful with him over the next couple months. I'd rather have a healthy, hungry snake than a sick one. I'll post updates.

Thanks again.