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Tessera Club!! Post Yours Too!!

I never said there is a super form.
Its just important for the question above to know is there is one.
If its dominant there will be het Tessera and Hom Tessera animals.
But its never said, if the will look different or not.

We will see :)
Greetings
Chris
 
I agree...at the same time though, many Tesseras out there are carrying unknown hets. Look at Joe Pierce's his is unknown. Which is awsome! I'd love to know that mine has something going on too! The study and research of it all... I'd have to say is what makes this morph so much fun, don't you?
I know who bred him, and can see what is on his site for clues. Not knowing, what his hets are, is causing me to test him out, making more projects with Tessera than I probably would have. He certainly has the look of an out crossed Corn to a Mutant, such as Lavender or Ghost, we will see.

I'm not sure there IS a super... I *might* breed two together this year, but others have and no obvious super was produced to my understanding.
With Motley and Striped in some mixes, it might be hard to tell. It could be very slight, but Homo Tesseras should be possible.

Painted Horses have a few different dominant genes. One line, does produced Homo dominant Paints that when bred to any solid horse produces a Paint 100% of the time. Another Dominant Paint Horse gene, that is in other equine, can only produce Het Dominant offspring. The homo match up is fatal, and is usually aborted, or lost at birth.

Hey Justin,
This was confirmed by Don today, the grandparents of the first tesseras were a striped corn X okeetee so I guess everyone of the tesseras out there have a chance to be het striped.
John
We have all seen “Striped” Corns mislabel in ads. Tessera looks like a “Striped” Corn to many, and many variations of Motley are called “Striped”. The “striped” corn X okeetee breeding has to be het Tessera at least and it makes since that somebody who doesn’t really know what a Genetic Striped looks like, would likely bred them to a Stripe or Motley, to get that allele in the mix.

Now that I have seen a few more photos of Striped Tessera and Motley Tessera, it looks pretty obvious. I guess the Tessera Motleys are picked out due to the black borders first and perhaps other things I am not seeing yet. I hope to see several clutches of then this year.
 
There is always a possible chance for a super. Granted the Spider Ball Python never proved a Super, the Woma Ball Python proved some type of Super/Hidden Gene call "pearl".

When I produce girls I will be breeding Tessera X Tessera for as long as I own Tesseras. You never know what could happen. Never rule it out, maybe no supers can come of it but that doesn't mean something else can't.

I love this thread :)
 
TessFHBl1.jpg
This one has just amazing colors! I really love the contrast!

~
Seriva
 
We have all seen “Striped” Corns mislabel in ads. Tessera looks like a “Striped” Corn to many, and many variations of Motley are called “Striped”. The “striped” corn X okeetee breeding has to be het Tessera at least and it makes since that somebody who doesn’t really know what a Genetic Striped looks like, would likely bred them to a Stripe or Motley, to get that allele in the mix.

Joe I'm completely confused. I come from Ball Python knowledge, and as you may know there are a ton of co-dominant / dominant morphs. So how can a corn be het Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant? I have never seen or heard of anyone explaining the inter workings of a Spider ball, pastel ball, etc... by saying thats a het Spider or thats a het pastel? You cannot because they are not het for those traits, they are dominant. I know I don't fully understand genetics thats why I'm asking. :)
 
Joe I'm completely confused. I come from Ball Python knowledge, and as you may know there are a ton of co-dominant / dominant morphs. So how can a corn be het Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant? I have never seen or heard of anyone explaining the inter workings of a Spider ball, pastel ball, etc... by saying thats a het Spider or thats a het pastel? You cannot because they are not het for those traits, they are dominant. I know I don't fully understand genetics thats why I'm asking. :)

As I understand it, Tessera is a visual het. It only takes a tessera gene on one allele therefor het. I think corn snake folks talk about hets that are mostly always unexpressed, and therefor getting phenotype and genotype mixed up. It took me a few to grasp this visual het thing.
John
 
I thought it was already proven by breeding Tessera to Tessera that there was no super. Or is it now thought that they might have been Tessera/Normal x Tessera/Normal, or Tessera/Tessera x Tessera/Normal, and so have not had a chance to be super (Tessera/Tessera x Tessera/Tessera)?
 
I thought it was already proven by breeding Tessera to Tessera that there was no super. Or is it now thought that they might have been Tessera/Normal x Tessera/Normal, or Tessera/Tessera x Tessera/Normal, and so have not had a chance to be super (Tessera/Tessera x Tessera/Tessera)?

There hasn't been a super form found or should I say recognised yet, but as I said before that doesn't mean that one may show.
The hard thing for me to understand is that you would think breeding tesseraXtessera would give all tesseras but it doesn't, wierd huh???????
John
 
There hasn't been a super form found or should I say recognised yet, but as I said before that doesn't mean that one may show.
The hard thing for me to understand is that you would think breeding tesseraXtessera would give all tesseras but it doesn't, wierd huh???????
John

I'm sorry Zorro but to me its not weird, only recessive trait bred to recessive trait can produce all of the same offspring. It does not work like that with Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant and anything like ball pythons that would mean you can breed a Tessera X Tessera and get Normals, Tesseras, and if one exists a Super Tessera.

Maybe its me but does the definition of genetics for Corns different than Balls? If so... I have to re-learn it all over again, cause Ball pythons are pretty simple to understand to me.
 
If it was a homozygous Tessera than you would get 100% Tesseras in the F1
If it was a heterozygous Tessera than you would get 50% Tesseras in the F1
those assume that you are breeding it to a non Tessera

now if you bred 2 heterozygous Tesseras to eachother than you should get 75% Tesseras in the F1 (25% would be homozygous Tesseras and 50% would be heterozygous Tesseras and 25% non Tessera)

clear as mud?
 
I'm sorry Zorro but to me its not weird, only recessive trait bred to recessive trait can produce all of the same offspring. It does not work like that with Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant and anything like ball pythons that would mean you can breed a Tessera X Tessera and get Normals, Tesseras, and if one exists a Super Tessera.

Maybe its me but does the definition of genetics for Corns different than Balls? If so... I have to re-learn it all over again, cause Ball pythons are pretty simple to understand to me.

I know that you have been around balls and see a lot more dominate traits, I'm just not used to it yet.
John
 
Yeah thats right.
As far as I know, when a ballpython morph is domnant you also say it is het and you get 50% from the dominant morph and 50% classics.
THere is a site where this is explained good, but I dunno which. I will search it tomorrow.
 
Joe I'm completely confused. I come from Ball Python knowledge, and as you may know there are a ton of co-dominant / dominant morphs. So how can a corn be het Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant? I have never seen or heard of anyone explaining the inter workings of a Spider ball, pastel ball, etc... by saying thats a het Spider or thats a het pastel? You cannot because they are not het for those traits, they are dominant. I know I don't fully understand genetics thats why I'm asking. :)
Justin,
To be honest with you, I tried like hell at one time to get on Boa and Python forums and really explain what they were really seeing genetically, but a few years ago, they had many of the morphs identified, but really didn’t have a clue how they were getting them.

The egos in the Boa and Python worlds were too big for me, and they ran me off, and I left willingly. They are slowly but surely figuring it out. I haven’t looked in for quite some time now. I got tired of breeding rabbits and chickens, and needing a warehouse for my Boids anyway, so I switched completely to Corns. You can apply Corn Snake SOLUTIONS we have discovered to the genetics of Boas and Pythons, and they work.

Super, and T+ are Boa and Python World Jargon, that are just HYPE, for Homo dominant mutants and Hypo mutants, plain and simple. I actually do not have a problem with Super, with my Boa background, but I know what it means. It doesn’t mean they are Super Special, they are just a homo co-dominant Mutant, with a different het phenotype, just like our Diffused gene, well sometimes.

Lets use Salmon Boas as an example for Het Salmon. You have never heard anybody talk this way, because most people don’t know the basics, but some of us lowly Corn Snake Breeders are getting pretty good at it. If you breed a Salmon (het Salmon, one Salmon gene and one Normal gene. They are actually het Salmon, Normals, just like Ultramels are Het Ultra and Amel, like Striped Motleys are het Striped and Motley and now Strawberry/Hypos are het Hypo/Straw. Het only means that the genes are different at that locus. Homo means they are the same at that locus.

A Corn Snake het Amel is Het Amel and Normal at the Amel locus. A Salmon boa het Amel, can be Het Salmon and Amel or Homo Salmon and het Amel. As far as I can tell, a het Salmon and homo Salmon look the like the same Salmon phenotype, because it is a dominant and not co-dominant. Phenotype means the way a morph looks. Genotype means its genetic make up.

If you get a hold of a copy of the Cornsnake Morph Guide, and read it enough all of a sudden, it will click in your head and you will have it. It is written for the beginner and the advanced, so his approach may seem odd, but how do you explain simple Corn Snake genetics to those who are just learning. I think he has been trying different approaches and is far better at explaining it than I am.
 
There is always a possible chance for a super. Granted the Spider Ball Python never proved a Super, the Woma Ball Python proved some type of Super/Hidden Gene call "pearl".

When I produce girls I will be breeding Tessera X Tessera for as long as I own Tesseras. You never know what could happen. Never rule it out, maybe no supers can come of it but that doesn't mean something else can't.

I love this thread :)

It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.
 
It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.
It is not a big deal IF homo Tessera proves to be fatal. The Spotted gene I work with in Miniature Donkeys is the same as the fatal Spotted/Paint gene in horses so I have experience.

IF Tessera proves to be fatal, when homo, you have two choices. Only breed Tessera to Normal or Non-Tessera Morphs and expect 50% of the offspring to be Tessera. Fatality is not an issue.

Breed Tessera X Tessera, and loose ¼ production, but produce 66%Tesseras and 33% Normals. In the long run, Tessera X Tessera breedings would average 66% Tessera, while Tessera X Normals would be the same old 50%.

The decision to avoid the fatal gene, or loose some of your offspring to it, would be a personal choice. Both sides of the political debate will be split like all other political debates 50/50.
 
That's neat, Chris!! :D I love knowing people who have siblings to my snakes, it's very snazzy! I'm looking forward to those pics!
 
What DON said that . . . ?

It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.

Uhhhhmmm, Don who?

If you mean Don SODERBERG, I don't know how or why you'd say that, since I bred Tessera to Tessera only one time in my life (last year)? This is one of the most genetically successful mutations I've ever worked with. Of the 14 eggs I hatched in that sole pairing of Tessera to Tessera, all but one were perfectly healthy. Only one other egg never hatched, but it was discolored the day it was laid. How is that high mortality? If you saw a citation of this falsehood somewhere, please, link us. If it was a rumor you heard somewhere, I urge you to consider not repeating things until you verify their authenticity. If I did say this in a forum (uhhh, Don seldom posts ANYwhere), I'll check into the asylum for a brain transplant. It's not outside the realm of possibility for me to forget I said something, but in so much as I've only hatched one clutch of eggs from Tessera X Tessera, I don't know anyone qualified to make such a statement -- and as new as Tesseras are -- I don't know anyone that could make such a statement.

I know that KJ bred Tessera to Tessera for the first time in 2009. I don't know what the mortality rate was, but it was just one clutch of eggs. He surely repeated that pairing in 2010, but I'm unaware of his results (or if he did more than one Tessera x Tessera pairing). Let's say he did. How could anyone draw a conclusion such as the one you cited - from seeing only three pairings? What if incubation was deficient, etc.? And in case it falsely appears like I'm desperate to cover-up being busted in a lie (certainly not the case here), why would I make a statement only two years and one clutch of eggs into a new mutation, by essentially saying, "please, don't buy Tesseras cuz the gene mutation is lethal"? I don't think anyone could make that statement until they have hatched at least 20 clutches of eggs. There cannot be more than three or four clutches ever hatched in the entire world. If high mortality is observed after 20 clutches, I'll be the first to stand up and make such a declaration.

Sorry for the sharp response, but ya touched a nerve with this. If you can find a post where I said such a thing, I'm outta here. I post on forums less than ten times a year (and that is the aggregate between all three main corn chat forums). You could paste all of a year's postings from me on one sheet of paper. It should not be difficult to find all ten of those (probably more like five) to show us where I said that.

Again, I submit that whether fertility was bad or good, nobody can make such a declaration from hatching just one clutch of eggs - in ANY mutation project.

Don
 
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