Aspen as a substrate = dangerous??
Okay, I know a lot of us were involved in the thread started by Waldo recently regarding a situation on another board with regards to aspen as a substrate. A long-time poster on that board has stated that he feels aspen is an "unnecessary risk" for snakes as tiny pieces or fragments of aspen can get stuck to the snakes vent and if pulled into the snakes body, will decay and cause infections of the cloaca which can be fatal. This is truly the first I have EVER heard of such a thing... and I am saying this as a person who considers myself to be this fellows friend.
The one "information source" that popped up in this discussion was from Melissa Kaplan's page. I am not sure how I feel about her as a credible source of information, but here it is: Quote:
The thing about HER pages are that they contradict themselves. It seems like she thinks snakes should NOT be kept on ANY particulate substrates at all, but then later she says: Quote:
It seems that the individual in question also claims that aspen is bad because no snake would naturally live on wood chips in the wild, but that seems silly if you advocating keeping snakes on reptile carpet. The dangers of reptiles carpet, to me, FAR outweigh any percieved benefit. It can be dangerous to animals with toe nails, it is difficult to clean, impossible to sanitize, and provides no burrowing opportunities (I know corns don't tend to burrow naturally, but mine seems to enjoy it). Of all the option she lists BESIDES aspen, these seem the best. Quote:
In essence, this discussion has gotten me thinking in depth about substrate choices. I have considered going to aspen "sani-chips," as I have seen a high degree of variance in the aspen I currently purchase- some is well shredded and fine, and other packs are rather dusty and contain large and somewhat abrasive pieces. What does everyone else think about this? Can anyone shed further light on the issue of cloacal infections due to pieces of wood fiber being brought up into the body during defecation?? I particularly am interested in the thoughts of long-term breeders, who, by sheer numbers have basically seen every problem that could possibly crop up. |
Why do people think snakes are so fragile ??,,I mean,inside normal parameters,,snakes are hardy creatures.I think we worry TOO much about these little things....you guys know what I'm trying to say ?.
I have kept a lot of differant critters over the years.No problems... |
Melissa Kaplan is a known PETA supporter, and has been quoted to say that she wants to see reptiles banned completely as pets; and it is widely know how contradicting her information is.
I would not use terry cloth towels, the risk for a tooth getting caught on it while the snake is feeding and end up swallowing the substrate is just too high (it happened with newspaper or paper towels even, which have smoother surfaces then the cloth does). You also have to be careful with the glue on the self stick tiles, when heated up they can off-gas fumes which could be dangerous for the snake. The cloacak infections from deficating is highly unlikely, as nothing comes out that goes back in when they go to the bathroom. Breeding on aspen is another thing, but still I havent yet heard of anything happening other then the possibility of the shavings sticking to the male. Corns are highly natural burrowers, hatchlings will spend most of their time hidden as its often the difference between life and death in the wild (in the wild they would be under leaf and plant matter, which I've found aspen to simulate the closest too). I have been using aspen shavings (both finely shredded and coarser shavings) for years with absolutely no problem, even when feeding on it. Baby snakes are kept on newspaper untill they're big enough to handle small pieces incase its ingested. |
I've tried:
1. Cage Carpeting (hated it....every time they poo you have to switch it out). I had two pieces so that each time I disinfected one, I could replace it with the other one. 2. Repti Bark (really liked this substrate. I used it for several years) 3. Aspen (tried this and hated it! It sticks to everything and dries out my enclosure. It dropped my humidity from 43% (no misting) to 35/36% (no misting). It sticks to everything, too! It does distribute the heat well but I prefer the higher humidity levels to the heat aspect. I went back to Repti Bark and really like it. It makes my enclosure look more natural. I have a 260 gallon setup and really like the dark color of the Repti Bark. It's easy to clean and it keeps my humidity levels where I need them to be. It doesn't stick to my clothing like the Aspen did and that's a definite plus in my book as I always have my hands in the enclosure to clean, do temp readings/humidity readings, etc... |
PS..I never feed inside the enclosure. I always put Markey in a large feeder box that is made for reptiles. I don't put any type of substrate inside the feeder cage. Just Markey and the mouse...
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Personally, I think it's simple numbers: There are hundreds of people who use aspen as substrate for their snakes, absolutely love it, and have never had a problem. There are two (that I know of) who say it can cause serious problems and should never be used.
If someone were able to show me a case in which a licensed vet performed an autopsy and found with 99.99% certainty that the animal's death was due to an impaction (in an animal which had been fed in an empty container since day 1 to show that the snake "licked up" the substrate), or a report of an aspen shaving getting caught in the cloaca causing infection/other damage, I would be willing to reconsider. In general though, I think snakes are too "well-built" to have such an hazardous natural flaw. Going along with what Droptines said, these animals have been around longer than humans have. In their natural environment, there's pieces of wood, bark, and rocks everywhere. It just sounds WAY too improbable without some sort of evidence. |
After posting, I was reading through her pages, and I found a few things that just didn't sit right with me:
From http://www.anapsid.org/ball.html Quote:
Quote:
From http://www.anapsid.org/corn.html Quote:
Quote:
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Jenni, if her information is not sitting well with you then find another source to get information from.
I guess I don't get what the issue is..... If you want to use Aspen, use it. I really think that the substrates that are considered safe are safe. It's really a personal preference. As for taping eyes, I think that's insane...... As far as shedding goes, my snake always sheds within a few days after her eyes clear up. Just make sure your humidity levels are higher than normal and give your snake something rough but safe to scrape against. My snake loves to shed in the vines. She will also crawl through her moss piles....I love watching her shed! Everyone has their own opinions as to how things are supposed to be done. I've seen two reptile vets who told me completely different things about my snake. You have to take the information, process it, and spit out the stuff that doesn't relate to you or that you don't agree with. In the end, you want what is best for your snake and that's great. I've heard some really bad stories about some that don't. I would find another person to read up on....just my opinion though and I'm a newbie to this site myself so I don't know much myself. I have had my corn for several years now and have found that I learned more just from owning the snake than from any reading I ever did. :0) |
In her eyes, it must be an incredible miracle that these animals even survive in the wild at all, let alone have more than likely been on this planet far longer than us humans have. I'd like to test the odds and put her and a snake in the middle of a forest, desert or jungle and see who fares better ;)
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LOL Dead....I think I know the answer to that one! :0)
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