Sad Accident. Advice?
 

I don't usually post question threads, but I'm shaken up over an accident that occurred last night. I've been sick to my stomach since, and I was up every half hour last night with a flashlight, peeking into a tub.

I've posted on the subject of the dangers of multi-tasking and snake care, but mostly in terms of enclosure security. I had family over last night, and they wanted to handle the snakes. I also had feeding duties to perform, so I was juggling a bunch of things at once. When I went to put my puny '05 male blizzard in the rack after feeding, I didn't notice that he had slithered up between the tub and the lid. Usually I visually verify the position of the snake before I snap the lid. This time I didn't. This wasn't much of a problem until I went to rack the tub. The security benefit of using lids with the tubs in the rack is that the pressure exerted between the shelves onto the tub is considerable. As soon as I shoved the tub in about halfway, the snake started thrashing around violently, so I knew something was wrong. I pulled the tub out, and flipped off the lid, and he dropped to the bottom of the tub, squirming wildly. His head went into the waterbowl, and he was still for a few moments. I grabbed him from the waterbowl and placed him on the aspen. It looked as if one side of his neck was compressed/pinched for an inch or two behind his head. He was still breathing, heavily in fact, and then after another 30 seconds he went into his hide, holding his head at an angle.

He came out of his hide several times last night, then he ended up settling on top of it for a number of hours. I could see that he was still breathing the whole time. About half an hour ago I noticed him crawling around, seemingly normally, with no visible injury except that his head is still tilted. Suprisingly, he still hasn't regurged. If he hadn't just eaten, I think I would have done what I could to find an available herp vet to look at him last night. But I'm afraid that if he has damage to his neck/head, that adding more stress could invite a regurge that could finish him off. On the other hand, if he's suffering, I would feel terrible sitting around waiting to see what happens. He doesn't appear to be suffering, but I can't pretend that I would know exactly what that looks like. The head tilt thing is extremely troubling.

Sorry for the novel, I just wanted to get all details in. I feel terrible. Any advice?

Oh poor Bill, I feel terrible for you Dean. I don't know what to tell you though. I hope he's not suffering. I know that someone else had a similar experience not too long ago with a corn being squished in the tracks of drawer and that corn turned out to be okay. I hope he is okay. Good luck with him. I know I'll be waiting to hear the outcome of this tragedy.

I'm sorry to hear that Dean. Sometimes things happen. Everyone knows your good to your snakes. Sorry no advice . Hope the snake is ok soon.

Dean -
I too had a horrible accident a few days ago and am waiting to see how my little opal is. She's one of the one's my cat let out. Well - I had been looking for her and moved a very heavy antique trunk to look under it. I didn't see anything, so tipped the trunk back upright. My husband went down to look after he got home from work and found her squished under the trunk. I felt horrible - I have never hurt an animal. Parts of her lower body were completely flat. It was awful, I was sick about it and I honestly didn't think there was any way she could live. I set her outside in a bag to cool down before euthanizing her. When I check on her the next morning - she looked completely normal. Tongue flicking, moving etc...I couldn't believe it. The flat parts were rounded and looked fine. She's been back in her tub now for 3 days and looks pretty good. I am not going to feed her for at least 10 days to give any internal damage more time to heal. The only noticable damage is a bit of swelling and a small bruise(?) about 2-3 inches up from the tail. I won't know anything for sure until I see if she can pass food.
But I write all this to say I'm so sorry - I know how you feel. They are hardy little creatures - I hope they both pull through. Please let us know how he does.

Thanks Bobo's Mama, and Lennycorn. Your kind words help. I don't want to play this up as a world crisis, but it's upsetting to me. :(

Thanks Deb. I'm so happy that your opal seems to have recovered. Keep us posted. I really appreciate you telling your story. I often underestimate their hardiness, so I really needed a good reminder. I had the ziplock bag out too, last night. I just couldn't do it though, without giving him a little more time. He really seems fine in all respects except for the head tilt. If he remains healthy looking, digests his meal, and the head tilt persists, I'll consult a vet. I'll be watching him closely, but I won't attempt to feed him for 10-14 days no matter how he looks. Thanks again. -Dean

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

I seriously doubt that Dean would let anyone handle a just fed snake :rolleyes:
Dean, this is a rather unfortunate accident and I hope all goes well. Keep a good thought, maybe he'll shake it off in a few days. They are pretty hardy after all :cheers:

I have to wonder how that's a problem. I handle my snakes before putting them into their feeding containers on feeding day. Then they go right back to their vivs, and I don't doubt that's what Dean was doing, too. I hardly see him as feeding his snakes, then tossing them around to random people to hold.


So sorry to hear about this, Dean, I hope he'll be okay. I would think if it were something really bad he wouldn't be acting more or less normal, but I guess we'll all have to wait and see.

I wasn't looking for that kind of advice. Sorry to give you an old man response, but this statement is 100% true:

I've handled, fed, and owned corn snakes since you were in the womb. I've probably kept snakes since your Mom was in Junior High. I'm pretty good at risk assessment, (hey, I've worked for an insurance company since you entered first grade), so don't worry about my mellow snakes' stress levels. Thanks. :)

I agree with Wilder, Dean did nothing wrong here. I would think you misunderstood his thread. Chill.

Thanks for the nice words, guys, and for the clarification. I really didn't realize that chisoxfan was implying that I was allowing handling after feeding. Of course I wasn't; the concept is so alien I didn't even consider that that was what chisoxfan meant. Heck, anything on fuzzies and up doesn't get handled by me before the fourth day after feeding.

Head tilt is generally a sign of vestibular problems (balance center). If the inner ear on one side was traumatized or that area of the brain, you'll get a snake that tilts it's head to the side of the lesion (problem). Is the snake moving normally, otherwise?

There isn't much that can be done for the little one except waiting it out and seeing if it recovers. If the head tilt persists, but the snake moves and eats just fine, it's not really much more than a cosmetic defect. They can live just fine with a head tilt (assuming it's vestibular and not spinal injury...but I wouldn't expect the little one to move normally or at all if that's the case.)

About the only medication that could be beneficial in that instance (and only if it's a brain injury) would have been an ultra-short acting steroid, but honestly that needs to happen pretty much right away to have any effect and I don't know I would have jumped for that anyway without other signs of brain injury such as fully dilated pupils or uneven pupils, etc. etc.

What I would personally do is give the little one 7 to 10 days of rest and relaxation before even attempting to feed again (assuming it doesn't regurge). Feed something tiny the first time so you can assess how much trouble (if any) the snake will have in getting its meal down. The head tilt may or may not go away, but usually won't affect the snake if it's purely a vestibular problem. They adjust.

I'm so sorry to hear about your ordeal Dean. Thankfully I've never "accidently squished" any of my snakes, but I can attest to their hardiness and resiliency in these circumstances.

Give him some time to recover, after having my neck pinched, I'd have it at an angle too. Don't be too broken up about it, accidents happen. At least we know you're a good guy at the end of the day.

And as for you...
When you can give worthwhile advice without being condescending maybe people will actually give a hoot about what you say. At least he doesn't consider the risk of cannibalization a "rare artform". You sure are well on your way to making LOTS of friends around here, I'll give you that. :rolleyes:

Sometimes the tripe needs to stay inside the cow...

Thanks for responding, Connie. I'm not sure if the tilt is related to strain/injury at the base of the skull, or in the neck region immediately before it. All other movement is normal, except for the head tilt, and what I'm thinking is a bit of a neck crane in the region I described. So if his spine is injured, his spinal cord appears unsevered. I'm at his mercy for observation; I really don't want to take him out.

The pupils seemed to be dilating and contracting normally in response to light. I tested this a number of times throughout the night when he was facing the front of the tub, outside of his hide.

I will follow this advice to the letter. Thanks again Connie.

Thanks Misty. I appreciate it. I guess we learn from our mistakes. You can bet your butt that nothing like this will ever happen to me again.

Yeah, but his user title is fitting. I've worked with a number of Jamaican people in the past, so I know what it means. An online slang dictionary could probably tell you. I don't think Rich Z. would allow it if he knew what it meant. :nope:

Dean, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I hope the baby is ok.

And I'm sorry you have to come here and deal with smart aleck know-it-alls who don't really know what they're talking about. Anyone who knows you will know that the last thing you would ever be is careless with your snakes.

Oh my, I am so sorry for both you and Bill. Of course we will all be thinking of you and waiting to hear how things go.
That is always one of my worries, especially with the little buggers who think they are not ready to go back to their tubs yet. As careful as we try to be they don't always cooperate. A few weeks ago I caught the end of Axle's tail in the edge of his Critter Keeper when I was putting him away. I felt so bad and his tail had a visible bent spot. I realize that is not the same as the neck, but the Critter Keepers shut so much tighter than the Sterilite or Rubbermaid tubs, I was sure I had broken it. But after a few days it was back to normal. I hope this is how it goes for Bill.

I am so sorry for you Dean and i hope our little guy pulls through.even though i don't know too much about snakes i know you would never hurt your on perpose and yours should be fine!

Thanks Becky, Traci, and Chris. You guys are great. I'll keep you posted.

I've been away for a little while so I've not been on the site and missed this all. I'm so sorry to hear about the little guy and hope he has a full recovery. We all know that your snakes get top notch care and that accidents will sometimes happen all the same. One of my snakes got dropped by a friend from about 4' as a hatchling and slithered spasmodically for a few minutes afterwards...2½ years on, she's grown up to be a beautiful big fattie who performs at 100%...even though at the time I was sure she was a goner.

Thanks Adèle. Glad yours survived its ordeal unscathed. I'm just very pissed at myself. I know it was an innocent mistake, but making a mistake that harms one of my pets, possibly permanently, is really disappointing. Heck, I get depressed for hours and hours over regurges and refusals! If he dies, or is permanently disfigured, I'm not sure if I'll ever stop kicking myself. Well, it's a waiting game now; what's done is done. :(

Oh no, sorry to hear that, hope the little mite recovers & leads a healthy life. I'm sure you're gutted that you caused it but remember accidents do happen & we're all human. Hopefully it'll come out in the next couple of days ok & hissing & snarling & bite your hand, just for revenge purposes..... Fingers crossed...............

Ah Dean, don't beat yourself up over this. It's an unfortunate accident that wasn't done intentionally. It can happen to the best of us, no matter how diligent we are. I hope everything works out for the little guy, and you as well. I'm sure you'll keep us posted on his recuperation.

I'm so sorry Dean to hear about the accident. But as it has already been mentioned, these little critters have some amazing recuperative powers. Give the little one some time and lots of TLC. I'm praying for you both.

Sorry to hear this, Dean.

Thought I'd share a story:
Back in September (?) I had a hatchling that got stuck to some tape that was stupidly (and unknowingly) above his tub in my rack. The tape had come unstuck and he had climbed up and gotten stuck. It happened a day or two days after he arrived and I gave him 5 days to settle in. So he was probably stuck for 2-3 full days. When I took him out on the 5th day the situation was pretty ugly, at least 80% of his body was fastened to the tape including the top of his head. I was scared to death when I peeked in and saw him, but thankfully when I touched him he moved. I felt like the most irresponsible person alive. Today all you can see is small patch behind his head that looks like retained shed, but it never comes off or changes. Other than that he's 100% healthy.

Though, we never have made up completely. He still enjoys a good tail rattle most times when I open up is tub. :)

Best wishes that everything turns out for the best.

Wish you strength coming days! I can feel the stomach ach you described!

Lee is 100% correct on this statement. I'd be willing to bet that most of us have had some sort of "accident." I know I have. I had a beautiful white-sided rat snake that attempted to dart out of his tub right as I pushed it into place in the rack. His head got squished (hard enough that I heard a cracking noise). I saw it before I pushed the tub all the way in or I would have killed him outright. Anyway, he started to have trouble digesting his food after that. He had never had any problems before, so I think I damaged the "digesting" part of his brain. I eventually euthanized him. I am still disgusted with myself, although I know it was an accident.

I have seen similar accidents with a few snakes at work. Some of them had permanent kinks due to the trauma and others got better. If yours has a permanent kink, it is possible for him to have an otherwise normal life. Good luck with him!

I'm so sorry Dean.
Praying everything turns out OK.

Thanks for the support, and the stories, guys. I really appreciate it. If the "actual" communities we belong to could be as supportive, and helpful as this virtual community, the world would be a much better place. You guys are awesome. I'll keep you posted on poor Bill. -Dean

Hi there. So sorry to hear about your accident. I can tell you really care about your guys and of course that's why you feel so bad. I would too. But hey, even the most careful and kind people make mistakes. I remember my mom accidentally shutting the car door on my leg as a child thinking both legs were in the vehicle. And back in the day, car doors were super heavy. Nothing was broken and I lived. :sobstory: I hope the snake will be just fine. :)

I have to ask, though....when you wrote that you got out the bag, what does that mean? I'm new to snakes so....sorry for the dumb question.

Dean... I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It was an honest mistake, but I know it's hard when those type of things happen. I love seeing all your beautiful snakes and know you take excellent care of them.

It's a good thing my snakes can't read and see all your photos on this forum!... or they'd be compaining (in a whiney voice) "it isn't fair, how come Dean's get nice photos taken of them all the time?" You do a great job. Try not to beat yourself up and keep us posted. Best wishes for you and Bill.

Thank you, Lavagirl. That's not a dumb question. I brought out the ziplock because if I had determined that the snake was definitely suffering, I would have put him in the ziplock, and put him outside (in the New England winter) to slow him down to a coma state before finishing him off in the freezer. I'm hoping that this will not have to be done...


Thanks Joni. I appreciate it.

Here's hoping that he will be 100% soon. Keep us posted.

Ah Dean, I'm sorry to hear this. I wish you & Bill nothing but the best. Don't beat yourself up to much. Accidents happen even to the best of us. My prayers are with you.

It happens to the best of us Dean. I hope he recovers, either way, don't beat yourself up over it. We all make mistakes, heck I once put half a clutch into a container that somehow ended up in my snake room with out any air holes in it. I lost them all. To this day I still don't know how that tub got past me. :shrugs:

Chisox- do you even know what batty bwoy means? If you are homosexual and proud of it, that is fine and respected, but ditch the trenchtown lingo...its really lame.

Dean- hang in there. I know I flamed you recently, but I hate to hear about things like this. $#it happens, dont beat yourself up too much. Keep us posted.

wow dean just saw this thread. I hope the little guy is doin ok.

Thanks guys. You're a great bunch.

And no worries amelanistic frank. To me, bygones are truly bygones. :) I appreciate your kind words.

So sorry to hear of this accident. Connie really has all the bases covered in her response - with any luck the damage is just a result of swelling that can resolve given time, and not anything more permanent.

As others have said - accidents happen - anyone keeping animals for any length of time has had similar experiences - so don't be too hard on yourself. It is generous of you to share the experience with the group here - sure hope the little guy comes around - have a soft spot for blizzards!

mary v.

:( Your post made me so sad. I would be feeling exactly the same way, but at least you can be comforted in the knowledge Bill's in the best possible hands. How's he looking at the moment, if you can see him?