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Copperhead in the barn.........How do we handle this??!!?

snakemaster24 said:
Now this obviously has sparked some sort of debate and I figure I put in my .02. Now Copperheads, while venomous are not USUALLY deadly and should be considered dangerous nonetheless. Now I have a 5 year old half brother and we often encounter Copperheads whilst snake hunting and such. And my dad has killed several and I have told him not to. But they do it anyway. Snakes are a very important part of an ecosystem and killing one can be very bad for a ecosystem. Copperheads eat, mice, lizards, frogs, small birds and even cicadas. And killing one should NEVER be a first resort. Copperheads are viperids. They are less jumpy than colubrids, USUALLY! Depending on how big the snake is you can easily shoo it into a bucket or trashcan, then take it to a safe location. You can call animal control, or reference a member of a forum that is local that would be willing to remove the snake. As much as we worry about or children, loved ones and mammalian pets (as annoying as they can be :) ). We need to remember that these are wild animals that need to be able to reproduce in the wild to keep equalibrium in the wild.
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I agree. Killing for no reason is wrong, not just for the snake but for the whole ecosystem. In this instance, though, where small children and animals were involved you can't just leave it there.

I absolutely love snakes and don't like the idea of needlessly killing one. But still, knowing a venomous one is underfoot creeps me out.

Here's my opinion: everyone should have a backup plan. Know how you are going to remove it before you find one. This prevents having to kill it. J3 now has a backup plan should he find another.
 
It was kind of an emergency to get it moved. And if they'd had no experience dealing with this kind of thing before, it's not a good idea to try to catch it.

They couldn't well spend hours or more trying to find someone to move it for them while their animals are in danger.

I know they aren't out to get us, but a bite was a very real possibility.
 
I have no experience with hots. I don't plan on having any. I have little desire to try and shoo an irate, adult venomous snake into something. It's risky enough killing them. Prodding them with a broom is going to make the snake more likely to spin around and strike.
 
I understand why this had to happen, not trying to judge but I do get a little confused by one thing when people say they killed a dangerous snake: How is approaching a snake with a hoe or shovel to hit it in the head any safer than pushing it into a trash can with a broom? I have a feeling many snake bites end up happening because of the person trying to kill the snake. In this case, if I had a snake to get rid of and I needed to approach it with a long handled tool, I would be a lot further away from it and feel much safer while pushing it with a broom compared to how much closer I would have to get in order to be able to decapitate it with a hoe or shovel.
 
snakemaster24 said:
Even with children and small animals it is still wrong. No matter what.
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Some day as you get older and have a family of your own and responsibilities to protect them, your pets, and livestock you will understand why certain things have to be done.
 
not to dis on anyone, but a comment like Snakemasters tells me he has little care for human life. is a snakes life more important then a childs life?

everyone here were kids once, how would any of us feel if someone just said Leave the snake alone and do your chores!

I think you did good by doing what you did, then asking for help. its not like you can give the snake any warning and chase it off, they dont understand that.

Im just happy that your willing to learn how to relocate a hot snake, though I have to say, if it were me (dont live in hotsnake country) Id still not take the chance, and I love snakes, I have 4 corns of my own. but then again thats me, Im just not willing to take the chance period, with my sisters sons. (cant have kids of my own)
 
I do have concern for human life. But I also have concern for reptile life. And you have to understand getting bit my a venomous snake, is very rare. And you can say what you want, but I see it from a naturalist standpoint. There is no reason to kill a snake without an absolute dire situation.
 
snakemaster24 said:
Even with children and small animals it is still wrong. No matter what.
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I have to STRONGLY disagree with this.

What happens when a small child reaches down to pick something up, not seeing the snake that you DIDN'T kill, gets bitten, then spends days in the hospital, racking up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical bills and life threatening envenomation?

You are telling me that the copperhead is worth $50,000 in medical bills, days of missed worked because you are staying up all night in the hospital with your 4 year old daughter who is in constant pain, and the possiblility of permanent tissue damage to a little girl?

People come first. I make no apology for that viewpoint. As a father AND a snake lover, any venemous snake that poses a threat, a hospital stay, possible death of my children is dead.

Now, I don't carry this viewpoint to anyone who goes out in the field LOOKING for snakes. ONLY to those snakes found around the immediate vicinity of where children play, enjoying the careless days of their youth, who are not supposed to be subject to this tragedy.

Would you kill and destroy a hornet or yellow jacket nest that was right outside your front door? I would in an instant.

There is no difference.
 
Do you spray for cockroaches in your house? How about set out mouse traps for disease ridden mice that might be in your attic or crawling around your kitchen?
 
I live in alaska, I worked for naturalists, do you know what I did for them? I guarded them from bears. some of them think as you do, but a vast majority thought human life was more important.

Quote from one of the "bird people" I worked for. " if it draws blood, you have my permission.. no, I ask you to shoot it Please!" (about a bird that was dive bombing her while she was counting eggs in the nest)

snakes are important, all animals are important, yes. but so is human life. if that snake wasent in the barn, Im sure they would have left it alone.. but it was IN the barn, WITH the kids.. how is that Not dire? (this out of a person that works with scared and frightened dogs, (been bitten 3 times in the last 7 years none of the bites were dire (nearly lost the tip of a finger during one of those bites BUT.. no venom was involved) it isnt dire until its dire, a childs life is more important then a snakes. im glad your for the snake, I would be too. IF it wasent so close to those kids.
 
snakemaster24 said:
I do have concern for human life. But I also have concern for reptile life. And you have to understand getting bit my a venomous snake, is very rare. And you can say what you want, but I see it from a naturalist standpoint. There is no reason to kill a snake without an absolute dire situation.
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You obviously don't have children. If you did, or if you'd ever seen the horrible scars caused by a rattler bite on a small child, You'd be singing a different tune. ALL life has value, even children, ESPECIALLY children, that cannot protect themselves...

So Mr Naturalist... Name a single species that has care and RAISES their young, that would not KILL another animal to protect said offspring??

Bah, some people are just reatarded.
 
I have to say that I still firmly believe in the fact that killing a snake that is not bothering you and is just moving along is WRONG! What about dogs?

About 4.5 million people are bitten by dogs each year.
Almost one in five of those who are bitten :a total of 885,000: require medical attention for dog bite-related injuries
In 2006, more than 31,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.

Children and adult males are at most risk.
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Source: CDC http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/dog-bites/biteprevention.html

Lets look at snake bite

On average 5 people a year are killed by snakes.
In the US there are approx 8,000 snake bites
When compared to how many are killed by lightning each year, which in a period from 1959 to 1994 was 0.42 people per million USA citizens injuries caused by snakes seems to be a minor problem.
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Source: http://www.venomoussnakes.net/
 
Cattsy said:
You obviously don't have children. If you did, or if you'd ever seen the horrible scars caused by a rattler bite on a small child, You'd be singing a different tune. ALL life has value, even children, ESPECIALLY children, that cannot protect themselves...

So Mr Naturalist... Name a single species that has care and RAISES their young, that would not KILL another animal to protect said offspring??

Bah, some people are just reatarded.
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Well if I had children I would relocate the snakes? Even though I never want children. BUT if you think about it snakes were here way before us so what gives us the right to kill them?
 
ghosthousecorns said:
I understand why this had to happen, not trying to judge but I do get a little confused by one thing when people say they killed a dangerous snake: How is approaching a snake with a hoe or shovel to hit it in the head any safer than pushing it into a trash can with a broom? .
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I think at the time the snake was in the hay or something, not out in the open being easier to catch.

ghosthou secorns said:
I have a feeling many snake bites end up happening because of the person trying to kill the snake. In this case, if I had a snake to get rid of and I needed to approach it with a long handled tool, I would be a lot further away from it and feel much safer while pushing it with a broom compared to how much closer I would have to get in order to be able to decapitate it with a hoe or shovel.
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Wouldn't the chances of getting bit be about the same??

dickdeuel said:
Some day as you get older and have a family of your own and responsibilities to protect them, your pets, and livestock you will understand why certain things have to be done.
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It's called the facts of life.
 
Seeing as I would kill a dog, a shark, heck, even a man to protect my children, why on Earth would killing a snake to protect them cause such a stir?

Again, is killing a hive of wasps, hornets, or yellowjackets wrong if the hive is right outside my door and my family and I risk getting stung? How is this different from the POTENTIAL to get bitten while working in a barn?
 
We kill animals all the time to improve our lives...

We kill roaches to protect our food and countertops.
We kill mice to protect the same.
We kill cows and chickens and fish to eat.
We kill animals that pose threats to our safety.

This is life. Animals kill other animals as well. Why do humans get such a bad rap?
 
Because humans have ruined the earth? Look around yourself. Buildings, cars, pollution. Sure its our way of life but is it good for nature? If we should be welcome to kill animals that threaten us, why shouldn't snakes be allowed to defend themselves?
 
I have something for you to ponder. Dogs. Dogs are one of the leading causes of animal related injuries, yet we allow them in our homes. We allow them to play with our children. We allow them to sit next to us while we eat and sleep. Yet we say snakes are horrible for being in our barns eating our pests.......pitiful if you ask me.
 
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