Killing mice

a few mor live mice feedings here

Sorry. I didn't know my writing was THAT bad....Personally I can't understand how you can hunt; I would just look at a doe or a turkey or whoever and think about how alive and well he is and drop my gun right then and there...but that's just my opinion*sigh* I hope one-day the laws will change...but right now the only thing I can do is dream about animals having rights....On to the subject of cornsnakes(if I go on another rant about mice I'll bore everyone stupid) those pictures are awful!



If a robin redbreast in a cage
Puts all heaven in a rage
How feels heaven when
Dies the billionth battery hen?
-Spike Milligan(The Animal's Voice )


If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell

Unfortunately, in many areas it is almost necessary to hunt. For example, in the area I live in, there are tons of deer. None of their natural predators, such as wolves, are here anymore. Deer can multiply until they eat up all of their food supply - which is also the food supply for other animals. While I, for one, would not mind reintroducing wolves and other natural predators back into the area, this is a long, complex process and is often resisted by people who keep livestock. Unless you want huge amounts of deer who can eat up all the resources, eat up people's gardens, and get hit by cars in large numbers, you need hunters. In my opinion, it is better for the deer to die relatively quickly after being shot, and then go to feed people than for it to slowly starve or get hit by a car.

JMHO...

I have read all the messages and believe the easyest way to kill mice and rats is put them in a baggy and bang them,they dont explode or anything,sometimes they might bleed if you do it to hard but do just enough to harm or kill the mouse not slamming it just bang it,Hope this helps!

P.S It is easy and cheap to do it this way.

I really don't want to turn this into an argument over deer, but I will say this: if we viewed deer the same way as people (and in my opinion, we ought to) then no one would be allowed to kill them and they would keep their own numbers down. How did the dinosaurs survive without people? Easy - they controlled their populations. It seems the only thing that humans manage to do when trying to help is mess things up more. If you look at it from a different approach, one could always argue that homo sapiens is vastly overpopulated, but you don't see us out there killing other humans because they destroy the environment, do you? That's just how I like to see it. If you think of it differently that's fine; just try to understand what I'm saying, because a lot of people (and I'm not saying this is anyone on this board; I'm mostly talking about animal abusers and slaughter-house workers etc.) are just too lazy to think of animals in their every-day lives.
Sorry about my explosion. (Didn't I say that I didn't want to rant anymore ) Since I have nothing to say that's actually about the topic of killing mice, I think I'll just be quiet now. Cheers to everyone.

Just some things I'd like everyone to know about hunting before I leave:

For every animal a hunter kills and recovers, at least two wounded animals die slowly and painfully of blood loss, infection or starvation, and those who don't die often suffer disabling injuries . (Ingrid Newkirk, Save The Animals)

While natural predators keep their prey species strong by killing only the sickest and weakest members, human pleasure hunters seek out and destroy the strongest and most fit; and by atificially reducing natural populations each year, hunters actually stimulate breeding and higher birth rates. (Same as above)

(an educated answer, I've taken many wildlife manag. classes in college)

I just wanted to add my two cents about this deer thing.
If the deer were left to naturaly keep their own numbers, many would die a painful slow death due to starvation and disease.
Hunters are given tags by the DNR which tell them which type of deer (doe/buck/yearling ect) they may harvest, this then limits the amount of bucks and does harvested each year, and manages the population all the more.
Hunters make a small impact on the deer popluation, each year before hunting season opens there are 1.65 million deer. Hunters in 2000 only harvested 618,274 deer. (bow and rifle seasons combined)
By harvesting animals we limit the spread of disease including bovine wasting disease which is the deer eqivalent of mad cow.
(http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/hunt/deer/ for more info, the DNR's site)

It really is a matter of opinion just like the mouse issue is, I personaly don't see the difference between some guy in a factory killing mice to ship frozen or me doing it on a smaller scale. If it was up to the snake in the wild the mouse would die a relativily fast death by suffocation or possibly by breaking it's neck. Most of us spare this work from our snake and either do it ourselves in a comperable way or let some guy (or girl) in a factory do it for us. The end result is always the same, dead mouse and a fed snake. The only difference is how we dispatch the mouse, and unless you are some sick Ed Gein or Jeffery Dahlmer you find the most pain-free and quick way to dispatch your mice, no one wants to see there mice suffer, however when you own a snake you take the responsability of feeding it, and we all know that snakes don't eat carrots or brussel sprouts

Anyone who sets out to prove that human hunting causes more breeding in deer is going to have a very hard time. Yes, deer breed a lot. Yes, people hunt. That doesn't imply a causal relationship. And in the wild, most animals do NOT control their population naturally. They happily continue to breed, and their population will be controlled by hunters of one sort or another, or by starvation when they become too plentiful for their resources. Starvation is population control. And humans are natural predators. Humans have relied on meat as part of their diets throughout prehistory and history. It is possible for people in developed countries, in this period of time, to have a healthy balanced diet without any meat products, but for most peoples, in most periods of time, this was not true. We are designed to be omnivores. We are not artificial hunters.

Btw, dinosaurs, were often prey as well as predator. Some animals do control their numbers. In canine packs generally only one female and one male are allowed to breed. Other predators also have similar rules. As far as I know, no non-predators have rules like this. For those animals with few to no natural predators (and this includes humans) starvation and disease are the natural population controls. Since humans have vastly overpopulated the earth, do you think we should let starvation and disease take their toll to solve the problem, since this is what you suggest we do for deer?

*pat on back*

that was a good reply, very well put.

LETS GET BACK CORNS,

Umm, a lot of people ARE artificial predators - what do you call sport hunting? Or trapping? Those things are not natural. And before we get Pipatic mad, let's go to corns. (I'm not trying to be cowardly, I'm just saying that this is a corn snake forum. Yes, yes, I know, it was me who started this topic, but I didn't mean to start another fuede. Believe me, if I could I would talk all day and night about the problems of hunting and how animals should have rights.) Just out of curiousity, does anyone besides me think that male and female corns have very diff personalities? I've read that there is no difference temperment-wise, but I've met only a few corns and the males acted much more hyper and nippy, even when it wasn't the breeding time. Maybe the corns I met were just weird If anyone thought I was suggesting that we should infect people with disease or the like to lower our population, I'm sorry to give you that impression. On a closing note, I'd just like to remind everyone once again that before humans the Earth was just fine, not to say that we are evil or anything. I'm afraid I just don't get your point with hunting. I'd rather die of some natural cause than be shot, crippled, and wandering until I collapsed, but that's just IMHO. Please, no one attack me - I'm trying to resolve this argument now!!

ohhhh...i.....feel.....soapbox....near......must....resist...the....pull....

lets talk about corns

I would certainly like to know how it is that the person quoted could possible know that for EVERY animal taken by a hunter, another two are left to die a miserable wounded death in the bushes! I have been hunting for thirty years, and I have NEVER left an animal to die like that! Also, hunting artificially encourages the animals to breed more and have higher birth rates? That's just inane.

It seems to me that this has become something like what happens whenever those who have no children begin to lecture parents on "the best way to raise them." In my opinion, everyone who is rabidly for "animal rights" ought to do whatever they can to remove themselves from every comfort that is brought to them by way of animal usages. When they do, they will be so far removed from modern society that the rest of us will no longer be able to hear them. The whole thing is ridiculous, in my opinion.

As to killing your mice the best way, I have no real opinion. I buy mine frozen, but when I used to buy them live, I just whacked them on the counter. They never knew what hit them, and my snakes were safe.

You are one person who hunts; they were taking a TOLL, meaning that the vast majority of hunters cripple 2 for 1. While you personally may not have injured many of your victims, thousands of others have. Oh and BTW, it isn't that hard to take away at least 90% of things that are cruel to animals - I don't eat meat, use products with animal lard in them; I buy free-range chicken eggs, and use only materials which were not tested on animals and say so. The only thing left to do is buy an electric car, which is not a relavant option since I can't drive. I don't use hair spray anymore (ozone layer) and I avidly recycle. I'm still finding new ways to reduce my use of animal-hurting products. I'm still alive, aren't I? It certainly doesn't hurt you to have a cruelty-free lifestyle, now does it? It only takes away some of your comforts (ex: eating meat) which, in this case, is actually debilitating to your health. And you cannot deny that it is unnatural for sport hunters to kill for pleasure!! Before humans were here (amazing, isn't it? Some people in this world, not accusing anyone here, seem to think that humans are the darling of the universe. To them, I say this: read Evolution by Charles Darwin. You'll find out that we ARE animals, no matter how much we try to hide it) animals did just fine on their own. Whaty we need to do is step back and let wildlife do just what the name implies: be wild. I ask you (and I know that this sounds extreme) to think like Gandhi (yes, he was an animal-rights activist) and respect all life.

I ask you to recognize that your attitudes to members of other species are a form of prejudice no less objectionable than prejudice about a person's race or sex.
-Animal Liberation, Singer


Send all the opposing messages you care to. I'm not offended and neither should you be; I love a discussion that involves a truly absorbing topic. I dearly hope that no one is taking this personally. I also hope that, at some point, this thing can be over so that we can get back to corn talk. (Not to say that I don't like this; it isn't often I get to express all my thoughts like this, which you can probably tell by my horrifically long posts

Oh my goodness, Dustin I bet you never thought that your simple question about using a chemical to kill your mice would lead to this!!! I already told you that I would be concerned about the effect that the chem. would have on your snake.

Now I have been reading all of this for DAYS now and going well to hold my tongue as I don't think this is the proper place to discuss most of the opinions posted in this thread. Having said that my short 2 cents..............
1 I am very for animal rights but the jokes on anyone that thinks we can just pull out and nature will restore it self! WE have already destroyed too many of the natural preditors that GOD put here to control population.

2 Celeste to you I say(very nicely) read this: The Holy Bible which will set the record straight about evolution and who has rule over whom. Although I agree with alot of what you have said we do not live in an ideal world so our ideals must be at the least practical or noone will listen!


Peace all
Colleen

The killing of mice for snake food is one thing, but bending the topic to include the killing of any animals for any reason is stretching the limits to what I have designed this message board for.

Just for the record, my personal belief is that the cost of your freedom is that YOU have to accept and tolerate the freedom of other people to do things you may not particularly like. I am not a hunter, but I have to shoot varmints (squirrels - aka tree rats) that are destructive to my property. No one is likely to have an unbreakable personal policy to NEVER kill absolutely anything. It's just a matter of where you draw the line, starting from pathogenic microbes up to human beings. Put your line somewhere in between or at either end. It depends on the circumstances you find yourself in. Most people will kill life threatening or even comfort threatening microbes. A black widow spider crawling across the rug in the family room will likely see the wrong end of a shoe. Many people will kill for food or have someone else kill for them. Others will kill for the sport of it. A few, in defense of their lives or the lives of loved ones will kill for self defense, and not hesitate one bit if they are defending themselves from another human being.

The argument about hunting is rather pointless. What happens to the populations of herbivores when they have uncontrolled population growth? Just let them do that? What will be the results of that program? Prior to man's interference, there were natural predators that kept the populations in check. In most cases, these animals no longer exist in most of their native ranges. Why? Because some people got upset when their small children occasionally would vanish when the wolves or cougars visited unexpectedly. Some of the predators found small humans much easier prey than tackling something that fights back much harder. Are you advocating a return to those days? If your small child was being stalked by a couple of wolves, would you not do everything necessary to protect your child, including killing the wolves? Or would that be a suitable sacrifice? Which would be more cruel? Allowing the wolves to take your child, allowing he or she to be killed and eaten, or fighting back with whatever tools necessary to save your child, even if it means killing the wolves? What happens when you only have two choices and either one means something must die because of your choice?

As mentioned above, I have had to (and undoubtedly will in the future) kill varmints that are destructive to my property. Do I enjoy doing it? No, I do not. Is it cruel? Depends on your perspective, I guess. Cruelty is in the eye of the beholder. Certainly the varmints would rather have their way rather than me having mine in the situation. But I am certainly not inclined to ask them to join me in a vote on the issue, with all of us having an equal say in the matter.

I have also been known to kill fire ants, swatted mosquitoes and flies, flushed ticks down the toilet, stomped on roaches (known as palmetto bugs in these parts) and sent more mice to the promised land than most people would ever believe. Is that cruel? I'm sure they all weren't happy about it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

And yes, I am a meat eater. It's not because I am cruel, but because I LIKE to eat meat. The mechanics of getting the meat from being an animal to being food on my table is irrelevant to me. If someone else would not provide me the means to do so, then I would do whatever is necessary to provide the meat myself for my table.

Umm sorry I have to ask, but where did you come about this information about wolves. I compleatly agree about everything you said but that. I hate to say this, but the stuff you just said about wolves is as much BC as the ruhmers going around about snakes. I dont appreaciate it. I have researched wolves. I have reasearched snakes. Please dont share false or mislead information unless you can show proof. I am sorry and I dont mean to be rude, but it is only fair. We expect people to be better understanding and educated about Herps. We must also return the favor about other animals.

sorry for any mis spellings

for more information good and bad about wolves check here and other website like it please.

http://www.bitterroot.net/wild/

Putting Risk Into Perspective
- Forest Service email reported 1992 figures on the wildlife hazards afield. Topping the list of animal-caused human deaths were deer, racking up 131 for the year. Except in movies, sharks took only one human, bees 43, and rattlesnakes ten.
- You are more likely to be killed by a coconut falling on your head than by a shark (therefore we absolutely oppose the introduction of coconut trees to Montana!)
- From 1989-94 there were 109 fatal dog attacks in the U.S.
- Children crushed to death by televisions since 1990: 2
- An average of 100 people per year choke to death on ballpoint pens.


In the next year:


- You have a 1 in 2 million chance of dying from falling out of bed.
- You have a 1 in 2 million chance of being killed by an animal.


Lifetime risks:

1 in 3 chance that you'll die of heart disease.
1 in 5 chance that you'll die of cancer.
1 in 45 chance that you'll die in an auto accident.
1 in 72 chance that you'll deliberately kill yourself.
1 in 700,000 chance that you'll be killed by a dog.


So if society deems wolves expendable due to the threat they pose to human safety, it only stands to reason that ballpoint pens, televisions, cars, and dogs should be eliminated also.

corns ,corns ,corns ,corns, corns,corns,corns,corns and guess what more corns
now i ve got your attention last night while on this CORN FORUM,
3 of my 16 normal but het for amel were hatching,got some pic and will post when developed..thought i would share that with you all lol

Gratzzzz!