(Beginner)Amel+Cinder=Peppermint?

WARNING: This is a question devised and created by a beginner breeder of corn snakes, if you do not wish to answer please disregard.
I'm currently in the middle of my research on breeding corns. This will be my first attempt and I would like to breed an amel with a cinder to create some peppermint corns.
Just a couple questions for whomever would like to help.
So if I purchase an amel, and breed it with a cinder, I will get peppermint babies? a(a)a(a) ci(c)ci(c)
Does it matter which gene goes with which gender? For example male cinder female amel? Or visa versa?
Can I breed any snake that's het amel with a het cinder and get peppermint offspring?
Sorry if these are terribly basic geneology questions... Just want to do this the best way possible to insure the best possible outcome.
Thank you for any responses!

PeppCorinder said:

WARNING: This is a question devised and created by a beginner breeder of corn snakes, if you do not wish to answer please disregard.
I'm currently in the middle of my research on breeding corns. This will be my first attempt and I would like to breed an amel with a cinder to create some peppermint corns.
Just a couple questions for whomever would like to help.
So if I purchase an amel, and breed it with a cinder, I will get peppermint babies? a(a)a(a) ci(c)ci(c)
Does it matter which gene goes with which gender? For example male cinder female amel? Or visa versa?
Can I breed any snake that's het amel with a het cinder and get peppermint offspring?
Sorry if these are terribly basic geneology questions... Just want to do this the best way possible to insure the best possible outcome.
Thank you for any responses!

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Both parents will need to carry both genes, in order to produce Peppermints.
If you pair an Amel with a Cinder, you will get normal/classic babies, het for Amel and Cinder. If you hold back a 1.1 (male and female), grow them up, and pair them together, you will get some Peppermints.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.
So if have a Female Classic, 100% het Cinder, Motley, Hypo, Caramel & 50% het Dilute, Anery, Amel and breed her with a Male Classic, 100% het Motley, Cinder, Amel, Caramel, I will get some peppermints? Though probably a smaller number of outcomes because the female is only 50% amel? So neither parent has to physically be amelanistic and cinder in color, they can both be "classics" like I rated in my example above... They just have to be BOTH het amel and cinder somewhere in their genetic makeup right? I think I'm starting to catch on! Thanks again for your help and patience!

PeppCorinder said:

Thank you for taking the time to answer.
So if have a Female Classic, 100% het Cinder, Motley, Hypo, Caramel & 50% het Dilute, Anery, Amel and breed her with a Male Classic, 100% het Motley, Cinder, Amel, Caramel, I will get some peppermints? Though probably a smaller number of outcomes because the female is only 50% amel? So neither parent has to physically be amelanistic and cinder in color, they can both be "classics" like I rated in my example above... They just have to be BOTH het amel and cinder somewhere in their genetic makeup right? I think I'm starting to catch on! Thanks again for your help and patience!

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A 50% het means that the animal has a 50% chance of carrying the gene. So, in this case, the probability that she carries the gene for Amelanism is 50%. If she does, then theoretically you could get peppermints, but if she does not, then you won't get any. Not just a fewer number of peppermint animals. However, you are correct, in that, neither parent has to actually be an Amel or a Cinder visually.

You have come to an excellent site for beginner questions. These folks are all about corns! That being said, before I spent 5 or 6 years attempting to breed Peppermints, I would make very sure that the starting pair was 100% het for whatever I needed. It would be a huge disappointment if your is not het for the genes that you need to meet your goal. If your breeding pair is not 100% what you need, get another breeding pair for a well known breeder. Nanci at Sniker Snakes breeds peppermints and there are probably a few others who love that line. It is pretty. I look forward to hearing about your progress.

If you bred those two together AND you got lucky and the female is het for amel, you'd have a 1 in 32 chance for each egg to hatch a peppermint. That's about a 3% chance for plain peppermints. If peppermints are your target, I don't think this particular pair is your best bet. However they have incredible variety, and you could hatch out some very interesting morphs if you did choose to breed them, though you should be prepared for a lot of normals with possible hets.

Pairing your male with a peppermint with no hets, on the other hand, would yield ~1/4 peppermint offspring.

PeppCorinder said:

Thank you for taking the time to answer.
So if have a Female Classic, 100% het Cinder, Motley, Hypo, Caramel & 50% het Dilute, Anery, Amel and breed her with a Male Classic, 100% het Motley, Cinder, Amel, Caramel, I will get some peppermints? Though probably a smaller number of outcomes because the female is only 50% amel? So neither parent has to physically be amelanistic and cinder in color, they can both be "classics" like I rated in my example above... They just have to be BOTH het amel and cinder somewhere in their genetic makeup right? I think I'm starting to catch on! Thanks again for your help and patience!

Click to expand...

Check out corncalc.com
Plug in the genetics and see what the odds are for getting each morph in the clutch.

Dragonling said:

If you bred those two together AND you got lucky and the female is het for amel, you'd have a 1 in 32 chance for each egg to hatch a peppermint

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This part is actually incorrect. If both parents are het for amel and het for cinder, there is a 1 in 16 chance for peppermints. This is because the 1-in-4 chance for an amel gets multiplied to the 1-in-4 chance of a cinder, resulting in 1-in-16 for both genes in a single animal. And the odds for a peppermint motley are 1-in-64.

Shiari said:

This part is actually incorrect. If both parents are het for amel and het for cinder, there is a 1 in 16 chance for peppermints. This is because the 1-in-4 chance for an amel gets multiplied to the 1-in-4 chance of a cinder, resulting in 1-in-16 for both genes in a single animal. And the odds for a peppermint motley are 1-in-64.

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That 1 in 16 includes buttermints and peppermint motleys (can we call them peppermots? :laugh: ) in this case. The 1 in 32 figure was referring to just amel cinder visuals.

(e) Oh, oops...I did make a mistake adding something about motley, though, you're right. At the least it was poorly worded. I removed that part from my post.

No, a buttermint or peppermint motley is 1 in 64. Just amel cinders is still a 1 in 16.

Shiari said:

No, a buttermint or peppermint motley is 1 in 64. Just amel cinders is still a 1 in 16.

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I plugged them into the Ian's Viv calculator just to be sure. Here are all the amel cinder visual possibilities:

Male and Female plugged in as "cc/c+ aa/a+ cici/ci+ mm/m+" (assuming F is het amel, ignoring other mismatched hets)

cc/cc aa/aa cici/cici mm/mm - 1:256 (0.390625%)
cc/cc aa/aa cici/cici m+/mm - 1:128 (0.78125%)
c+/cc aa/aa cici/cici mm/mm - 1:128 (0.78125%)
c+/cc aa/aa cici/cici m+/mm - 1:64 (1.5625%)
cc/cc aa/aa cici/cici m+/m+ - 1:256 (0.390625%)
c+/cc aa/aa cici/cici m+/m+ - 1:128 (0.78125%)
c+/c+ aa/aa cici/cici mm/mm - 1:256 (0.390625%)
c+/c+ aa/aa cici/cici m+/mm - 1:128 (0.78125%)
c+/c+ aa/aa cici/cici m+/m+ - 1:256 (0.390625%)

All of these possibilities combined add up to 1:16 including buttermints (1:64) and peppermint motleys (also 1:64). Excluding the latter two leaves 1:32 peppermints with no other visual traits.

Ah, now I understand what you were trying to get at. Yes, as you add more potential genes the odds of 'just' x do go down.

Thank you everyone who has replied. This has all been really informative and I'm learning more every time I log on here lol. I'll post a couple updates here and there, I have ordered the male 100% het Motley, Cinder, Amel, and Caramel. Decided to wait on the female since she's only 50% chance amel, in order to (hopefully soon) find one that's 100% like the male.
Oh and I splurged and ordered a male High-white reverse oketee! Such a beautiful snake at maturity! ��