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Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

The main reason that I would never move back to AZ is that the place is SO darn crowded. If all these people are boycotting and leaving, I might have to start looking at property out there...
 
Tim, I am glad you chimed in. Your voice says volumes on this discussion. I have Mexican nationals that work for me. They have resident alien cards, that look like a drivers license. It is not big bulky documentation. I carry a drivers license and am required to present it to any policeman that asks for it. This is not a big deal.

There are hundreds of thousands of legal Mexicans in Arizona. There are not enough police to go running around trying to ruin the day of everyone with a sun tan. You guys are worrying the sky is falling.
 
So we go to AZ to visit bro, what exactly does hubby have to carry to prove citizenship? Now I know Wade will say well if you don't do anything wrong don't worry. So now; my what if hubby is weeding bro's front yard in grubby clothes and the police come along, are they compelled to ask for his proof of citizenship.
At this point I don't know who or what to believe.
I do agree with Ms Z we won't be visiting AZ anytime soon, 5+2=7
 
The police are going to need probable cause to approach your husband. I can imagine circumstances where someone might be innocently looking suspicious. Say you go to a movie and take a short cut through an alley late at night. The police ask what you are doing there, ask for ID. That is the way it has always been, I have been in that situation myself. I tell the officer why I am in an alley late at night and show him my ID. End of story. Nothing has changed.

Susan, I am sorry that has upset you so much. I won't be spending any late nights walking around Nogalas right now either because it is not safe. But it is not the police I worry about. It is the human trafficking and drug traffic and high crime rate that scares me. If I lived there I would be up in arms demanding that my government do something about it.

Wait a few months, watch how this develops. You can be sure if there is even the tiniest infraction it will be on the front page. There will be reporters sticking microphones in the faces of every brown skinned person for the next six months. Watch and decide for your self. But don't loose sleep over your concerns until they have proven justified.
 
Shiari said:
THIS is a good point. But the law is still worded poorly. Reasonable suspicion is far too broad. Dangerously broad as it gives cops, who in my experience tend to be people who often feel stressed and overwhelmed by all the crud they have to deal with each day, a reason to act upon subconscious prejudices.

As a teenager I encountered a cop who apparently strongly disliked women. He was rude and condescending to both me and my mother, and refused to help us or dust for fingerprints... even though I'd been stalked for a month and someone tried to break into the house when it was just me there. And his "excuse" was that because it was 3 hours post event before I called the cops that it was probably just a dispute with my boyfriend and I was lying. In truth, I had been hiding in my closet with a knife, basically cowering in terror. But no, a 17 year old wouldn't be terrified of a guy banging on the windows and pulling on the doors, right?
Click to expand...

these can also be called instincts from being on the job and seeing crime purportrated by the same types of people every day... I am not saying colors only but colors as well... in my area the bulk of the crime is from drug users and kids... they are profiled all the time... because it is them who are doing the crime. You have a lack of trust from your event with the police... I have had some events too but I trust the police more than I distrust them. There are some people who just suck at their job and they are going to muff it up no matter what it is... we cannot make laws so week as to not allow the normal police to do the good job they are doing.
 
Another great post, Wade!!! There is no justification to immediately assume that every cop is gonna stop brown skinned people (remember I AM one) every time they see one. Talk about over-reacting...

As for paperwork... I might be wrong, but isn't every state's ID card proof of legality here in the US? Social security card? Vehicle registration in your name? What's the big deal about "all the paperwork"? That stuff can fit in my wallet! Some are acting like they'll have to bring a file cabinet to prove their citizenship... so untrue... IF they get stopped in the first place. (I'm checking, but it seems that the incident in the video provided by desertanimal below was done by the Border Patrol at a weigh station... not the police. However, if it did happen as described, it IS a travesty and it was handled wrong.).

The fact is, if you don't live here, you'll never understand. Yes, people die every day... but at least the law can DO something about that. BUT, if you have a farm on the border and an illegal immigrant kills you as he passes through, the law's hands are tied?

Josh, you come on back. We'd love to have you AND your vote back. :poke:
 
wade said:
Wait a few months, watch how this develops. You can be sure if there is even the tiniest infraction it will be on the front page. There will be reporters sticking microphones in the faces of every brown skinned person for the next six months. Watch and decide for your self. But don't loose sleep over your concerns until they have proven justified.
Click to expand...

Truck driver arrested today. Starts at 1:10. Both of these brown people lost work time today. I will be pissed if I get arrested someday for not carrying my birth certificate.
 
I am surprised to hear that already Steph. The law doesn't even go into effect until Saturday. I still have faith in the Law Enforcement people, much more so than I do in the News Media. I'm going to hold my judgement until I hear more.
 
No....

susang said:
So we go to AZ to visit bro, what exactly does hubby have to carry to prove citizenship? Now I know Wade will say well if you don't do anything wrong don't worry. So now; my what if hubby is weeding bro's front yard in grubby clothes and the police come along, are they compelled to ask for his proof of citizenship.
At this point I don't know who or what to believe.
I do agree with Ms Z we won't be visiting AZ anytime soon, 5+2=7
Click to expand...

the law states a LEO must be lawfully engaged before he can ask for proof. And he must have a reasonable suspicion.

Let me see if I can help with this.....

It is kin to what is called a secondary infraction. Twenty years ago in Florida it was a law you must wear a seatbelt in your car. As a LEO, sitting in a parking lot watching a car go by, noticing the driver had no seatbelt on, all you could is watch. If they blew through the corner stop light and you pulled them over, then you could give them a ticket for no seatbelt.
If it were me (in Arizona) pulling over anybody lawfully and they couldn't speak English ( in itself wouldn't raise suspicion), had no DL, no SS or if they did but they didn't match up, that would make me a little suspicous.

Will it be perfect? No. I'm sure they will be cowboy LEO's who will abuse and harass.

As a final, personal story.... a good friend of mine pulled over a dump truck to check his load. The driver was very nervous. His suspicion was raised. The info came back. Nothing was matching, he couldn't ask if he was illegal. As he came down from the top of the truck he was greeted 47 times over the head with a tire iron. The driver was illegal and wanted for a triple homicide in C. America.
 
I think the bottom line is this too shall pass. The sheer value of the resources that will be expended to support and carry out this new law will become it's own demise. For every person they bring in on suspicion of illegal residence the State will pay thousands to process, house, feed, lawyer, deport, or release the person, and multiply that by a few thousand people you have a law that will cost too much to enforce. It costs more to enforce immigration laws than it does to ignore them which is why we have so many illegals in the first place. I think it's sad a State would even have to feel compelled to enact such a law because they are being overrun by illegals when really our Federal government should be finding a real way to control immigration.

I agree people will be racially profiled, but thats nothing new- it happens everyday all over the world and there are both good and bad consequences to profiling this way. When a crime is committed or suspected the police can only go on gender, age, approx. height/weight, and yes race to find the suspect- it saves time and resources. Sure it sucks if you fit the general description, but in this case it's gonna be real hard to be convicted yet innocent- your either here legally or not. If your here legally you have a valid ID just like any other American citizen so I don't see what the problem with asking someone to see it is. I do see counterfeiting becoming more prevalent, jails overcrowding, tax dollars wasted, and immigration remaining the same problem it is now, but what else is Arizona supposed to do- just open up their borders and say come on in?
 
danielle said:
I think it's sad a State would even have to feel compelled to enact such a law because they are being overrun by illegals when really our Federal government should be finding a real way to control immigration.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is only a band aid and not fixing the source of the problem. Although, it is a start- it takes a lot more work to put the giant into motion, not to mention, disagreements over how to fix it (or even if it should happen) can cause any movement in this direction to come to a standstill, even cause some steps back.
 
Oh no, I'm a semi-professional hat dancer with a great tan, if I go to AZ on tour I'll have to carry my birth certificate! Because, you know, I didn't have to have a birth certificate, SS card, and 2 pieces of mail with my current address to get my drivers license or my passport... Oh wait, yes I did... I guess I'll have to start carrying my drivers license in my wallet, and my passport when I travel, what a hassle!
Give me a break, everyone who is, carries their proof of citizenship with them already, and if you don't drive, go get an ID, you should have one anyway...
 
wade said:
I still have faith in the Law Enforcement people, much more so than I do in the News Media.
Click to expand...

Me too.

Furthermore, I think I would probably rather take my chances with a cop out to get me than a civilian out to get me. Even bad cops have at least some hoops they have to jump through to make things look legit....if a civilian wants to do something bad, nothing stopping them and they don't have to cover their tracks quite as hard. :nope:
 
So saw Steph's link maybe I worry the sky is falling, maybe I am over reacting. Hey I also store food and water in case, in case of what I'm not sure, but I also know alot of others on here store food, water, seeds (the legal kind).

Wade I'm not flipping a screw because of this, well anymore then usual, :crazy02:
 
CaptBogart said:
Oh no, I'm a semi-professional hat dancer with a great tan, if I go to AZ on tour I'll have to carry my birth certificate! Because, you know, I didn't have to have a birth certificate, SS card, and 2 pieces of mail with my current address to get my drivers license or my passport... Oh wait, yes I did... I guess I'll have to start carrying my drivers license in my wallet, and my passport when I travel, what a hassle!
Give me a break, everyone who is, carries their proof of citizenship with them already, and if you don't drive, go get an ID, you should have one anyway...
Click to expand...

Well I had it typed in last post but deleted it. As of 2010, I needed a birth certifcate to renew DL, never needed it before. It is a recent law maybe 2008 or 2009.
I think some states are lax in what is needed to get DL.
 
wade said:
Tim, I am glad you chimed in. Your voice says volumes on this discussion. I have Mexican nationals that work for me. They have resident alien cards, that look like a drivers license. It is not big bulky documentation. I carry a drivers license and am required to present it to any policeman that asks for it. This is not a big deal.
Click to expand...

Now if I understand this, a legal immigrant is issued appropriate documentation that must be produced upon request. Why then is there a need for a new law that specifically targets illegals? Would a routine traffic check not already give law enforcement the opportunity to check someones immigration status without creating a new law that now puts "reasonable suspiscion" in a whole new define as vague? I still believe it is racial. It's discrimatory. It's targeted at latinos. All that law really does as far as I'm concerned is makes Arizona one of those least desired places to visit.
 
CaptBogart said:
Oh no, I'm a semi-professional hat dancer with a great tan, if I go to AZ on tour I'll have to carry my birth certificate! Because, you know, I didn't have to have a birth certificate, SS card, and 2 pieces of mail with my current address to get my drivers license or my passport... Oh wait, yes I did... I guess I'll have to start carrying my drivers license in my wallet, and my passport when I travel, what a hassle!
Give me a break, everyone who is, carries their proof of citizenship with them already, and if you don't drive, go get an ID, you should have one anyway...
Click to expand...

Yet somehow... A drivers license wasn't enough for that guy who was arrested, and yet was born not far from where I live.

Hmmmmn.
 
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