"but i only like'em live!"

(this is a repost... i originally posted it in the "Feeders" forum, which i later realized wasn't the right place for it.)

So i recently picked up a three year old corn snake. the kid that owned it before had raised her on live mice. i knew this before hand, but figured i'd try and feed her a pre-killed mouse. She refuses to take the dead mouse. I've tried everything. I tried warming it, dangling it in front of her face with tongs, hell i even tried putting a little tuna juice on it. I left the mouse in the viv for most of the day but nothing. I knew the snake had just finished shedding not long before i picked her up so I didn't think it could be a pre-shed thing.

The next day I went back to the store and picked up a live mouse. I removed her from her viv and put her into her feeding tank. dropped the mouse into the other end and almost instantly she grabbed it up and promptly ate it...

I've owned snakes before (sand boa & ball python) and had always fed them live mice (i guess i always assumed this was all that was available). It's always kind of bothered me that the mouse has to suffer but figured it was just a natural part of life and dealt with it. However after finding this forum and extensively reading, i see that most of you prefer dead mice not only for humane reasons but for the safety of the snake.

She is getting quite bit and MAY have to move up to rats here eventually?? which i'm sure can pack a little more punch than a mouse...I don't want to hurt my snake, I would prefer to feed pre-killed but it doesn't seem like it's going to be a possibility. Any suggestions other than what i've tried already?

P.S. If i decide to raise my own feeders, how do you humanly kill them?

Snakes do not feed because they are hungry in the human sense...
They feed via response....
As keepers of snakes we need to find and trigger this response....
Sometimes it's smell or heat or movement or vibration....
Dark, being left alone, overnight, at dusk, brown rat, black mouse, multi, etc etc.....
Keep trying everything you can and even try things that sound bizarre...

Hi, Jay! Glad to see that you're doing your research. My first comment is that you should really never have to feed your corn rats. Mice are fine, regardless of the snake size. You might have to increase the size of your mice, and you can find larger ones online for much less than in the pet stores.

As far as converting him over to f/t...that can be tricky. How are you thawing the frozen? Some put them in a cup of warm water directly. Others thaw them in a baggie so the mouse stays relatively dry. MAYBE it would help to try a fresh killed and see if that works. There are a lot of tricks available, so you might have to work it out a while to see what's right for him. Also, how long are you going between feeds? If he's that big, he can go a pretty long while before needing to feed again, so you might want to try to make sure he's REALLY hungry. I have snakes that have gone months without eating, and they're perfectly fine, so don't feel like he'll die of starvation if you hold out longer than you normally would.

Have you let her get good and hungry? I'd try letting her got 14-21 days, then trying with a pre-killed. Like a FRESH pre-killed. Put her in a feeding bin with it, in the evening, cover her up, set a timer for two hours.

Something else that might work is a FT pinky rat or fuzzy mouse, heated up REALLY hot, to 102F. Most of my snakes view hairless rodents as snake candy.

is it really worth wasting mouse after mouse after mouse in order to get them to eat them dead? i mean, i know it's a mouse but it's life has some value and them just being flushed down the toilet day after day when i know full well she'll take a live one... i guess i should just man up and start breakin necks?

jayhimself said:

is it really worth wasting mouse after mouse after mouse in order to get them to eat them dead? i mean, i know it's a mouse but it's life has some value and them just being flushed down the toilet day after day when i know full well she'll take a live one... i guess i should just man up and start breakin necks?

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Oh, one should never waste snake food....instead, get another snake to take the leftovers!

You may not have to go through mouse after mouse after mouse. You may try it one more time and she will say HEY...not so bad! It is totally up to you what you decide to do but you did ask advice on this...

Sometimes you just need to locate their trigger......

OOoh see I really like Lboz's solution...its what I'm doing afterall...

You shouldn't try very often. If it's an adult snake, I would offer food no more than every 10-14 days. Otherwise you condition it to refuse.

Nanci said:

You shouldn't try very often. If it's an adult snake, I would offer food no more than every 10-14 days. Otherwise you condition it to refuse.

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Good call, Nanci! I had not thought of that!

I agree with LBoz that it shouldn't be necessary to feed a corn rats, especially if you're basing it on the opinion that your corn is large enough to require one instead of an adult mouse. In that case, the corn is probably too large itself. If the corn is in fact overweight, feeding it rats is only going to exacerbate the problem conisdering rats have a higher fat content than mice (correct me if I'm wrong). Rats are sometimes feed by breeders to help their females regain weight after laying a clutch. Generally adult corns are fed 1 adult mouse anywhere from 2-4 weeks apart to maintain a healthy weight.

Also, so that you don't waste to much time planning ahead, it is illegal in Alberta to own/sell live rats, though frozen can be imported from other provinces.

alright so i've concluded that i will not ever have to switch to rats. that's great. now if i want to try a fresh kill but would rather not have to manually break the mouse's neck, is there any other way of killing it humanely for feeding?

jayhimself said:

alright so i've concluded that i will not ever have to switch to rats. that's great. now if i want to try a fresh kill but would rather not have to manually break the mouse's neck, is there any other way of killing it humanely for feeding?

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There should be plans on this site somewhere on how to build a CO2 chamber. I have heard that this method is very quick and humane.

I will get slammed for saying this but if you are talking one mouse and one snake the easiest way to get fresh killed is to pick up the mouse by the tail and swing it around and smack its head on the counter top or the edge of a door. It takes an instant and the mouse is dead, hand it to the snake.

I learned this trick from a respected keeper on this site. It's not nice to think of, but keep your flames to yourself, por favor.

When I raised my own feeders, I would quickly grab a mouse from the tub, toss it into a pillow case and slam it hard against the wall. Instant death, no fear, no suffering, 3 seconds from tub til' death. Just make sure to slam it hard...you don't want to stun it, you want it dead. Then place it into the tub. It will stay warm hopefully long enough for your snake to be interested in it. You might even use tongs and move it around in front of him to give it the appearance of life....aka the zombie dance.

i've heard of gassing baby mice with a co2 chamber before. is this effective with larger mice? i haven't searched the DIY section but is there an easy enough way to build one?

wade said:

I will get slammed for saying this but if you are talking one mouse and one snake the easiest way to get fresh killed is to pick up the mouse by the tail and swing it around and smack its head on the counter top or the edge of a door. It takes an instant and the mouse is dead, hand it to the snake.

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I may of dispatched a few more than one this way.....:dgrin:
Was I wrong to keep doing it....:sidestep:

snakewispera snr said:

I may of dispatched a few more than one this way.....:dgrin:
Was I wrong to keep doing it....:sidestep:

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LMAO! Well, we know where you're going now! :devil01:

I only have six snakes. They all ate different sizes and it just wasn't practical enough for me to go to elaborate lengths with a CO2 chamber, even though I do have CO2 I use for aquatic plants.