Moderator(s) needed here....

DAND said:

At time that works while at others it doesn't. When I first started moderating over on Fauna I PM'ed a few individuals asking for them to tone it down. While some took the advice others did not. The same has happened when I have made the "friendly public reminder". Like Rich said, you'll have those who don't like being moderated. I've seen it in all types (i.e. male, female, young, old) of people even persons who you wouldn't think would have such a meltdown. Most people do not like being corrected. The thing is, there are rules for a reason. I said something along the lines of this over on Fauna;

You know you are supposed to stop at a stop sign. You feel that rule doesn't apply to you and you run the stop sign. You get T-boned and now you are going to complain. The same thing applies to posting here. Follow the rules and you will get to your destination, don't, and you may just find that your trip has been cut short.

Click to expand...

Agreed....and I need to get the shiny thing to edit my post, because as soon as I hit submit, I realized that this will ALWAYS be a judgement call.

For blatant trolls - those who initiate an inane thread or those who log in just to spam us with the Samsung mp3 players they have up on Ebay - no warning is necessary. They're out.

But I think that "most people don't like being corrected" is too broad a brush. Many people, sure.,,,but not most, which implies "the majority".

And while I understand the stop sign analogy, I'd have to disagree with how applicable it is in a fluid and dynamic environment like a forum. There is NO "degree" of stopping. It's binary. You either stop, or you don't.

With forums, and the specific modes of what constitutes appropriate communication as set forth by site owners/admins, there's going to be a bit more latitude, as it's NOT "binary". There are layers of subtext, tone, style, and context that need to be comprehended and considered when rendering a decision about a communique.

Oft times, all one needs to do is to occasionally tell someone to "slow down" instead of stop, or "look both ways" before you cross the street.

And when those times are necessary, I'd like to see it first happen privately. If the party is too thin-skinned or belligerent, I'd have no problem with then taking it public.

regards,
jazz

jazzgeek said:

Agreed....and I need to get the shiny thing to edit my post, because as soon as I hit submit, I realized that this will ALWAYS be a judgement call.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

jazzgeek said:

For blatant trolls - those who initiate an inane thread or those who log in just to spam us with the Samsung mp3 players they have up on Ebay - no warning is necessary. They're out.

Click to expand...

jazzgeek said:

But I think that "most people don't like being corrected" is too broad a brush. Many people, sure.,,,but not most, which implies "the majority".

Click to expand...

Majority is what I was shooting for, but let me clarify. I wasn't speaking of (using a forum as an example) the whole membership. I was referring to the membership requiring the correction. I have found the majority of those corrected to react in a similar manner.

jazzgeek said:

And while I understand the stop sign analogy, I'd have to disagree with how applicable it is in a fluid and dynamic environment like a forum. There is NO "degree" of stopping. It's binary. You either stop, or you don't.

With forums, and the specific modes of what constitutes appropriate communication as set forth by site owners/admins, there's going to be a bit more latitude, as it's NOT "binary". There are layers of subtext, tone, style, and context that need to be comprehended and considered when rendering a decision about a communique.

Click to expand...

Again judgment call. While one could say the car came to a complete stop another would disagree, while yet another may say it was close enough. Same thing could be applied to has "Jimmy" has adjusted his posting mannerisms towards "Mary"? Maybe interpretation is a better word?

jazzgeek said:

Oft times, all one needs to do is to occasionally tell someone to "slow down" instead of stop, or "look both ways" before you cross the street.

And when those times are necessary, I'd like to see it first happen privately. If the party is too thin-skinned or belligerent, I'd have no problem with then taking it public.

regards,
jazz

Click to expand...

Again, I agree.

If you need any help, Im here all the time, could mod something lol.

Yea, I think Ryan would make a great mod.

Lot of good folks here who'd make a good mod...I'll volunteer, and also nominate Dean, Mike Blickendorff, Dale aka jazzgeek or Susan (she of the beautiful snakes in tree's pics) :*)

jazzgeek said:

But I think that "most people don't like being corrected" is too broad a brush. Many people, sure.,,,but not most, which implies "the majority".

Click to expand...

Well if my experience is any guide with the various sites I run, I would have to say that MOST do not appreciate being corrected in any fashion. I would say easily that it would be approximately 75 percent or more, once being reprimanded for ANYTHING, will respond back caustically or even get a permanent attitude over it. MOST do not even believe they have done anything outside of what they have a RIGHT to do.

jazzgeek said:

And while I understand the stop sign analogy, I'd have to disagree with how applicable it is in a fluid and dynamic environment like a forum. There is NO "degree" of stopping. It's binary. You either stop, or you don't.

With forums, and the specific modes of what constitutes appropriate communication as set forth by site owners/admins, there's going to be a bit more latitude, as it's NOT "binary". There are layers of subtext, tone, style, and context that need to be comprehended and considered when rendering a decision about a communique.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's more like a YIELD sign. Sometimes you have to stop cold, but most times you just have to ease into traffic taking care to see what everyone else is doing around you. The moderators (traffic cops) often have to make the determination of whether the inappropriate yielding may constitute reckless driving or not and respond accordingly.

jazzgeek said:

Oft times, all one needs to do is to occasionally tell someone to "slow down" instead of stop, or "look both ways" before you cross the street.

And when those times are necessary, I'd like to see it first happen privately. If the party is too thin-skinned or belligerent, I'd have no problem with then taking it public.

regards,
jazz

Click to expand...

Well there are pros and cons to the decision of using a private correspondence over a private one in moderating. Moderation can be rather time consuming and after a while, telling different people the same thing over and over again will get old. Whereas sometimes a public reprimand will get a lot more mileage as other viewers will be able to learn from the incident what is appropriate and what is not. If ALL moderation takes place privately, it will be much more difficult for all members to learn what the tolerance level is for bending the rules of conduct, since they are not witness to the corrections attempted to be made by those who went before them.

Over on Fauna, the thorniest issue is by some people pretty much demanding "consistency". Meaning that every infraction being treated the same. Which pretty much means that they expect every post to be read and evaluated mechanically. Which pretty much is highly impractical. All the moderators are people, and they will react differently to written phrases depending on their mood of the moment. That's even assuming that every post WILL be read, which is not very likely on a high traffic site. The ONLY rebuttal to such a claim is rather simple, however: As long as YOU take care not to violate the rules, then regardless of the moderator seeing your post, nor their particular mood, then you have no worries about being in violation REGARDLESS of what has happened to someone else. If in doubt, err on the side of caution in how you post. The exercise in how to have suitable discourse in a public medium will probably be a good learning experience for you anyway....

Rich Z said:

All things considered, especially recalling a recent event where I posted evidence of a chat room situation I wanted to end, I would prefer to not go down that avenue again. The thread I indicated in the opening post for this thread has a number of issues, which I hope most people who would consider the position of moderator would be readily cognizant of. "Chat speak", while being a bit less than desired from members, is not really something that should be granted a penalty by a member using it. What concerns me is the heckling involved which can only most certainly spiral a thread into a level of discord that I think most of us would not want to see here...

Click to expand...

I can't blame you for your reluctance to head down that road. I was really just looking for your general feeling about these things, and your reply provided that without going into specifics. Thanks. To clarify, I wasn't feeling out your thoughts on the "ban-ibility" of chat-speak etc.. As annoying as chat-speak and similar written laziness is to me, I don't think they're offenses worthy of temp-bans in and of themselves. I really wanted to know how you viewed members' attempts to correct this behavior. Your reply answered this for me.

I'm not going to add to the list of nominees, and since this isn't the poll thread, I'll refrain from re-listing those capable members who have already been mentioned.

I'm alittle late, Rich. But DaemoNox and Ryan, and Dean would make great mods!! I may be 14, but I have modderated on a few small sites...:grin01: I will be up to the job if called upon. Even if it is a mod of the forsale section.

Might I also add that I meet all requirements. School will be the only hold back of any sort.

That and being grounded.

DaemoNox said:

That and being grounded.

Click to expand...

:roflmao: :roflmao: HAHA!!! I guess that goes for me too. And the hold back for adults is WORK. So there. :grin01:

Holy Batman! I somehow lost track of this thread until today.

I must say that I'm happy about the idea of having mods here. I've only frequented one other site like this before, and the mods there were good. All they really ever did was get rid of trolls. (They were so on top of it that they wrote Kristi and me asking if we were trolls because we used the same multiple computers and thought we were one person with more than one handle!) I know some people are worried about being overmoderated, but I suppose I have faith in the people here and don't really think that that will happen.

Also, thanks very much Brent and Dale (I really appreciate the vote of confidence and the public expression of your convergent opinion that I am a reasonable person), but I would like to allay everyone else's fears and say outright that I haven't the slightest interest in being a mod. Negative interest, in fact. I feel JUST competent enough to take responsibility for my own posts. Phew. Actually, seeing my name mentioned herein made my heart rate pick up a bit! LOL!

So, carry on! I don't care at all about how the mod system works. I feel VERY happy leaving it in the competent hands of the other contributors to this thread. I'll just stand here on the sidelines and say,

"Hooraaay MODS!" And then I'll say, "Hooraaaaay BEER!" I'll just change it up.

desertanimal said:

All they really ever did was get rid of trolls.

Click to expand...

Yea, we could use that right now to get rid of that dtelecom person that is spamming as we speak.

Roy Munson said:

I re-read that thread, and I think it would be helpful for potential mods and members alike if you gave us your opinions on what went wrong in that thread. I haven't seen any temp-bans issued to the participants (yet), so I'm genuinely interested in how you view the exchange. I definitely see problems in the thread, but I don't know if my view lines up with yours, and I'd like to know.

Click to expand...

I know Rich was being asked his outlook and in no way am I attempting to answer for him. This is MY (no, I'm not yelling, just being specific) opinion of the thread:

Post #2
wat ^ welcom 2 the site. i dont liv in de moins, so i cnt help. but good luk

Post #4
I've got a dictionary for under $25.

Post #17
[in response to] plush was dose a dictionary for under 25$ mean 2 me. its just a book. i dont need a book.01-19-2007 08:58 PM

Are you sure about that?

Post #18
Comprehensive Guide to Corn Snakes VS A Dictionary? I'm not sure which one would benefit more in this case.

Post #29
Chat-Speak is not normally received well here. ( and by the way I'm 14, spell check really help if you do not know how to spell a word.)

Post #31
Books and yourself obviously DON'T get along Shame

Unfortunately the FAQ and search features will not take kindly to bad spelling and words that don't exist

No matter how much you don't like dictionary's or use your age as an excuse for the way you present yourself, the spell check button takes such little effort to clicky and correcty!

Post #35
I'm glad your learning And you wont go wrong with the "Katy Manula"

Post #38
First of all, PLEASE take the time to spell out your words,

Post #39
[in response to]whos Kate Manula. give me the link to her site if u have it plz.
:headbang:

Post #44
e_c_l: Owhay annoyingway isway itway orfay ouyay otay avehay otay
anslatetray isthay? Owhay eriouslysay ouldway ouyay aketay
omeonesay owhay otewray isthay ayway?

Your chat-speak is equally annoying. You won't be taken seriously here until you start writing in real English...

Post #50
First there was reptile addict then Jizzyfizzie now E_C_L......just kidding,...

Post #51
So if you enjoy presenting your thoughts as a six-year old might, go ahead... we'll continue laughing at you.

Post #54
It makes me sad that you'd want to appear stupid when you are not.


Followed by numerous posts pertaining to the release of bodily fluids from a number of members.


Post #88
FYI, snakes would be VENOMOUS, not POISONOUS.


Then some more posts about the release of bodily fluids.

Then the progression to the discussion of "tone".

Then the original poster returns with some colorful language and hostility.

Now, somewhere in this thread I had said something about persons not liking to be corrected. This person came here wanting to get a pair of corns but was given more information about spell check then corn snakes. A lot of what went on within this thread was either not necessary or could have been done via PM and not publicly.

I saw the original post before anyone had replied and I chose not to reply until something was said about auction sites. My response was taken well as were a few others, while the majority were not.

Well, well, well....I guess I'm out for a MOD. ...or am I???

Seems some of my comments in the aforementioned thread are part of the reason mods are necessary but let me address that later and digress for a while.

In my humble opinion, mods have been needed a long time before this and because of the lack of mods on this forum there has been a rift that probably will never mend or at least not do so in the near future. Most of us know about the rift and know that certain members have left and will not return. Some of these members were great assets to the community and it is sad that the straw got piled so high that it broke the camels back so to speak. We have had discussions about the "greatness" of these members and really who is great and how great but what it all comes down to is we have lost members that were (in my opinion) much "greater" than the trolls that ruined chat, or the kiddies that come here to stir up trouble, or the BOI-like threads that hurt reputations, or the nasty comments that come up in threads (yeah...me included), and the list goes on. Rich is a busy man...at least that is what he has said. He cannot be here all the time and I do not blame him one bit. But what needed to happen a while ago is what is just starting to happen. Moderators are an excellent idea and could change the way some of these threads might go.

Okay, let me circle back to the original thread. Sure, my attitude and posts in the above referenced thread were probably out of line. I probably should not have made the comments I did and had someone sent me a PM about my attitude I would have apologized and moved on. However, in that situation, I think a moderator ALSO would have mentioned to the 14 year-old that has been here for less than a month there are certain rules to follow in how you speak on the forum. My first comment about a dictionary was due to the fact that there was NO attempt at correct punctuation, spelling or grammatical correctness and it was also meant to be a JOKE. Most of us know that a 14 year-old should be able to put sentences together and most of us also know that a 14 year-old that writes a message like that (looking for a cheap snake) is not the kind of person that will most likely come through on a sale OR buy the appropriate husbandry supplies for such a critter once it is purchased. Still, however, that does not excuse my attempt at a joke that was in poor taste. I was going strictly for laughs and it was probably not the best thing to do...even if several peopled rep'd me. In my defense, though, I did add a bit of helpful information:

Just a little hint: If you want your offers/questions to be taken seriously on this site then you might want to try and pose them in a more professional manner.

Click to expand...

See I have moderator qualities after all. I can suggest the nice way of doing things and if I was a moderator I would have to watch what I say....

Hmmm...the best of both worlds? Maybe my hat should float into that ring....

I like Jeff's point. I think that a moderator on this forum was needed way before this, and not just after this incident. I think the moderator should be someone that has been on this forum for a good amount of time, and is respected by almost everyone.

No offense to the younger guys on this forum, but not everyone would accept to listen and mind a 12-14 year old on a online forum.

My $.02

DAND said:

I know Rich was being asked his outlook and in no way am I attempting to answer for him...

Click to expand...

To be honest David, based on the posts you flagged, this would be a very dull place if you become a mod here. I don't disagree with you on most of the posts you've flagged, but you're way off base on some of them. I employ a "bad Roy, good Dean" method when dealing with people like the original poster of that thread. I think she and I ended things on the right note as far as our interaction was concerned. I won't apologize for my posts. But when I say you're off base, I'm really not referring to the posts of mine that you flagged.

I really can't see what is wrong with the following posts. I think you'd have to be a real nazi-mod (that's nazi with a lowercase "n") to confront these posters for these words. The o.p. was beligerent from very early on in the thread. Why? Because she was asked to post coherently. Big deal. I think she deserved MOST of the abuse. Heck, she ASKED for it.

Post #29
Chat-Speak is not normally received well here. ( and by the way I'm 14, spell check really help if you do not know how to spell a word.)

Click to expand...

Post #38
First of all, PLEASE take the time to spell out your words,

Click to expand...

Post #88
FYI, snakes would be VENOMOUS, not POISONOUS.

Click to expand...

-----------------------------------------------------
Members: please remember this post if I'm listed in a poll thread as a mod nominee. I'd consider being a mod, but I'm not interested in being a babysitter or a micro-managing behavioral analyst.

Another thing Dean, I agree with you, because its not hard to spell check your posts.

Heck, there is a button right next to reply for it!

MohrSnakes said:

I've got a dictionary for under $25. :sidestep:

Just a little hint: If you want your offers/questions to be taken seriously on this site then you might want to try and pose them in a more professional manner.

Click to expand...

I still don't see ANY problem with this post.

Sorry, i'm a bit late here. My three choices for moderators would be Dean, tyflier and mbdorfer.