Yellow Okeetee?

Thanks Joe. . .Once again!!!

Thanks for the insight! I do appreciate it! Might have to go your route after all, it seems to make more sense . . . When double clutching, when would the first mating occur, and when would the second one occur (what time frame do you use?) I'm about to put all my snakes, Kings & corns down for the winter in two weeks. Thanks again, Joe!
Still can' post pics though. The "manage attachment" button looks good, but isn't doing ANYTHING!!! - - - ??? - Dadnabitt. . . @&*^!($#!!!!

Zee

Nothing is set in stone when it comes to the timing of the matings that produce the first clutch and the second clutch, but I can give you some guides. Brumating your corns for 2-3 months helps a lot with the timing side of things.

Generally, the first mating will occur about 7 - 10 days after the first shed out of brumation. If the female sheds very soon after brumation, then don’t count that shed. I would say that this first mating will occur 3 - 5 weeks out of brumation.

The second breeding is a little more tricky, but if all goes well, then the female will be receptive 7 - 10 days after her first shed after her first clutch is laid. This will occur about 3 - 4 weeks after the first clutch is laid. Most of the time the females will lay their second clutch very near to the time the first clutch hatches. If we figure 65 day incubation period at 82 - 83 degrees, this means the mating took place about 35 days before and would put the timing of the second mating in the above time frame that I laid out.

Other tid bits of info to get females to double clutch. Feed them heavily. When they are gravid, if they refuse a normal meal try a delicacy like a fuzzy mouse. Really try to get them to eat something right after they lay their first clutch. Some will eat a mouse of normals size right away and some will not want to eat at all until they shed. Usually, I can coax these into eating live fuzzies or something like that.

Do not get the males too warm. I do not let mine get over 80 degrees. I keep my room at 82 and the males are on the bottom selves. It does not hurt to put a male with a female once a week right out of brumation so you do not miss the first mating and you can also do this for the second mating. Generally speaking, it is pretty obvious if a female is receptive or not. The matings will normally take place with in 5 minutes after the female is introduced to the male and sometimes almost immediately otherwise nothing is going to happen. If there is a lot of commotion in the cage and the female is obviously not interested in the males advances take her out.

If you want to email photos to me, you can, I'll post them for you!

[email protected]

Thanks! for the info! Also thanks for assiting me in the photo . . .

Thanks Joe! I will keep in touch as I am STILL thinking about the options!

SASHEENA: Thanks for offering to help me! I will take you up on that offer and mail you some pics this weekend! I will take some new (outdoor) pics of her tomorrow/Sunday (weather permitting).

Just tried the "manage attachments" again - still nothing happens!____???????????

Zee

BlueKing said:

Still can' post pics though. The "manage attachment" button looks good, but isn't doing ANYTHING!!! - - - ??? - Dadnabitt. . . @&*^!($#!!!!

Zee

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If you have a pop-up blocker make sure you turn it off...

Hey!!! It works . . . .(the attachment button). . .

Thanks drizzt_19 ! I can post some pics now. Here's one with the yellow corn on an old carpet. I will take some outdoor pics tomorrow (weather permitting).
Thanks again,

Zee

Well, if you are using an image manipulation program, I give you credit for being damn good! To keep the color that consistent across multiple backgrounds would require more than just a Photoshop hobbyist.

Beautiful specimen! Please keep the pics coming

BlueKing said:

I will breed her to very red looking WC male that I found not too far away from her (maybe this will help intensify the yellow in the F2/F3 generations?)
If I can double clutch her (she's getting nice n' thick from eating so good)then I would like the next breeding with a nice caramel corn - maybe one of yours?
Your thoughts?

I took a pic of her earlier but can't get the "manage attachments" button to do anything (I tried and tried)? Any way I can post a pic on here? It worked the other day, but only that day! What's up with that - HELP??? Thanks!!!

Zee

I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn! - Carsten Zoldy -

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So you do plan on breeding her in the spring? If so, I would like my name on the waiting list for one of the hatchlings! :santa:


What a beautiful snake! Congrats!

she does have the faint stripes, which could mean she is a hybrid with a yellow rat. She does look more corn than anything though, so if she's a hybrid, she's probably an f2 or f3. I think the easiest way to tell is the eyes. Every striped yellow rat I've had has amber eyes almost the same color as their ground color. Can you post a close up of her head and her eyes? (if she lets you) Maybe this is a more extreme version of a hyperxanthin...more so than carmel and butter that isn't an offshoot of the trait. The background color and blotch color seem too similar, like if it wasn't those thick borders, she would be completely gold snake with no difference in background/blotch color. Ooh how exciting!!!!

I'm pretty sure that when she does clutch, it will be a few years until any of those babies are up for sale...

Whatever she is, she's absolutely STUNNING.

Jynx said:

she does have the faint stripes, which could mean she is a hybrid with a yellow rat.

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I don't think the eye color or the presence of striping mean anything.

The only (non-amel) corns I've seen that do not have those stripes are from Kathy Love's Okeetee and Sunkissed lines, and she spent generations breeding the striping out of them. I doubt you'll find many wild corns with no striping.

I think the easiest way to tell is the eyes. Every striped yellow rat I've had has amber eyes almost the same color as their ground color.

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The eye color of corns is generally that of either the ground or the saddles. I'm not sure how this has any bearing on whether or not something is a hybrid. :shrugs:

Here are two hypo motleys. They look similar in overall coloration, notice the colors of the eyes compared to the ground/saddle colors.

Ditto!!!!!

well at this point in time, I don't think we should rule ANYTHING out or in yet until we figure out what she is. I'm giving my opinion based on my experience.

the striping in wild corns had to have some from somewhere, thats where I'm basing my info from.

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What makes you say this? Of course the striping came from somewhere, it came from ancestors and natural selection as the species evolved. Saddles came from somewhere, eyes came from somewhere, checkered bellies came from somewhere.

I'm not trying to say this snake is or is not a hybrid based on the striping that the majority of wild corns exhibit is a waste. Many north american rats, corns being just one, have some degree of longitudinal dark striping that is variably expressed. Bairdi, yellow rats, corns, etc.

I agree that many hybrids have an altered shape to their heads and eye sockets and many have lighter eyes, but again I think this has no bearing here. Like Serp said, some corns have ground color/tan eyes, and they are as pure as any other corn.

I have to say that the snake appears to be "pure" corn to me, nothing in the photos says otherwise as far as I can tell.

I'm not arguing that its pure corn, but I think I can safely say that we have never seen the yellow color this extreme in something that was not amelanistic (like butters) or an intergrade. Therefore, i think its a safe assumption that it could be a hybrid because of this oddity. I threw the yellow rat possibility in there because A) the striping which, yes, most corns have anyways and B) the HIGH yellow color. As for eye color, I'm not talking about the eye color of a corn. Yes, some corns have eyes that are the same color as the gound color...I know this. I'm talking about the eye color of a different species.

Here is an outdoor pic of the golden corn . . .

Hope this will dispell any rumors about the "photo shop" myth! The pic was taken in my front yard, with partly cloudy conditions. It IS real. I do not have any yellow corns living in this county or anywhere near here, except near the coastal areas. I live to far inland to have any yellow rats. I DO have grayish/blue rats here, and today I caught my first ever pure black rat snake - but it was 20 miles north of here! I will take some close ups in a little while so you can see it's head. The longitudal stripes you're referring to are very faint (as is the case with most wild corn snakes) at least around here, and in GA., SC., FL., MS., LA. (those are all the places I used to find corns in many years ago).

Zee

I think I can safely say that we have never seen the yellow color this extreme in something that was not amelanistic (like butters) or an intergrade. Therefore, i think its a safe assumption that it could be a hybrid because of this oddity.

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This is a very dangerous way of reasoning, IMO. Considering the fact that hybrids carry a stigma with them, I don't think it's a good idea to make such a suggestion unless there's a good reason to do so.

Just because we haven't seen it in corns is no reason to suggest it's a hybrid. The same was true of striped, motley, bloodred, anery, caramel, and pretty much every morph we know today. Before those were discovered, nobody had seen anything of the sort in a pure corn.

My point is that none of the things you've pointed out even lean in the direction of "it's a hybrid" so I don't think it's wise to act as if they do. I think there's a difference between not ruling something out, and saying what you were saying. I think it's all too easy for others to read it as "it looks like a hybrid to me."

Anyway...

Below is a picture of a diffused corn with a dark brown ground color and almost orangey saddles similar to some miami corns. I was wondering what if she were expressing a genetic trait that caused even half of the erythrins to instead be xanthins. Just for fun, I made the altered "yellow" picture below, which I think she could look like.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the F1. I don't think we'll have an idea until there are a couple clutches of F2s, no matter what happens in the F1. Keep the pics coming, Zee. I can't wait to see the outdoor pics, too.

Here's another . . .

This pic was taken when it was cloudy, and in a shady area of my front yard.

Zee

HEAD SHOT of the golden corn . . .

Here's a head shot of the golden corn (No red-eye, LOL)

Zee