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Old 11-06-2011, 10:52 AM   #54
SnakeAround
Why is it that because snakes are rarely found together in the wild, people assume that they would feel horrible being together? I have not ever witnessed a fight for a spot in my vivs, or snakes being chased or being spooked out, would that not be expected to happen if they really hate being at the same spot together? Ok, they don't feel the need to be together in the wild, that's obvious but that does not 100% sure mean they hate being together in one enclosure/spot. I refuse to believe that co-habbed snakes really need to be in the same spot at the same moment all the time, yet they do not because they hate to be together in one spot. Some are not fed at the same time so why would their wiring tell them to go look for a certain temperature at the same time? From experience I think that most corns just don't care, but some do. If I find that a co-habbed corn skips meals or just does not grow as fast as the regular corn, I separate it to see if that makes it eat or grow better. If so, I won't co-hab it again. I have a very skittish corn, that I expect to not like being co-habbed, also if I have to take her out, it would stress out the other corn so I don't co-hab her. Also, most males are separated after one of them bred for the first time since from that moment they show dominating behavior if being put together. But as long as they are not bred, they are fine together.

Here in Europe people co-hab because they see others do it without problems. And you know what, I have heared so many cases of really uneducated people co-habbing pairs (or more snakes) finding clutches year after year and no problems what so ever with egg binding and such. Sometimes I see ads mentioning 3 year old co-habbed pairs having had clutches 2 years in a row... no problems at all... and many of them don't even look like they are 3 years old anyway size wise or they are humongous because they are over fed. Yet we as educated breeders waiting for appropiate size and such are confronted with egg binding more than we would expect. That does frustrate me to be honest, since most people over here are educated in corn care and try to make the best decisions and take precautions to prevent problems.

For me a reason to co-hab, is to be able to keep more snakes, indeed. Other breeders, like most American breeders, choose to put them in racks in drawers without anything to climb on, sometimes even without a hide. Some even minimize the floor surface to be able to keep more snakes, below what I consider reasonable. My co-habbed snakes have way more floor space than many rack kept corns and can climb stuff, which many actually do, especially juveniles. Further I have noticed that many of my corns, including some co-habbed ones, hang out behind the glass a lot, looking at the world. Somehow they seem to appreciate that, e.g. it might be good for them (stimulating?). In racks they can't do that. What is the best way to keep more snakes? I think that question is more fair to ask than: why is co-habbing worse than not co-habbing? Of course there are keepers who do not co-hab and do not put hem in racks, and have spacious vivs, which undoubtedly are the best type of keeper, of course. Yet, most of the keepers are not like that.

Maybe people have to accept that some people prefer co-habbing (in larger vivs) above (small) racks and others prefer (small) racks without anything to climb on or anything stimulating going on.

I still wonder why I see some American breeders keeping hatchlings together until they shed while most cases of cannibalism occur in young hatchlings? I have mentioned this multiple times in discussions about this topic but nobody ever said; you are right, that is weird. Personally I co-hab but not until they are large enough to be moved to a viv, which is usually when they are about half a year old, to avoid co-habbing during the period when cannibalism is most likely to appear.

I hope some people which are very much against co-habbing are willing to seriously react to the above, since I have posted this view on the discussion many times but never had anybody do that, though I do think I have some interesting questions, like why I don't see any fight or such going on between co-habbed snakes. Even people who dare to call co-habbing animal abuse, have nothing factual or scientifical to prove their case, only some examples from their own experiences, showing that snakes do better when separated and their logic, which in my opinion is just personal logic, but not facts or science. I do agree some do better when separated, but for any case they present telling a snake does better when separated, I can put multiple showing that co-habbed snakes thrive, or cases in which non co-habbed snakes do have problems. I have co-habbed yearlings twice the size most American yearlings have, I was told many times that German and Dutch juveniles are way large... yet most of us co-hab. Really easy to make up some logic that co-habbing stimulates them to grow larger... but since I have not done any research, I don't dare to say so.

We have to realize that people see prove of what they think is true in everyday life, yet anyone with another opinion sees proves for maybe even the opposite view. Calling people animal abusers based on this biased look at keeping corns, is just not right. I don't call people keeping snakes in racks animal abusers, though I have as much cases and logic available to 'proof my case' if I choose to think they are facts. Let us except that all serious breeders/keepers attempt to do their best but have different views, so none of them should be called abusers or be bothered by people with a different view.