someone shoot me I'm an idiot!

First time shipping a snake. I checked temps, but um, failed to check temps where he was going. Knew he did not need a heat pack but had no idea about ice packs. Package was supposed to arrive by 10:30am according to what I read, got there at 3pm. The snake was baking in the truck while the stupid driver went past the drop 2or 3 times that morning clueless he had a package that was even going there and was supposed to be there by a certain time.

I am fully ready to refund the buyer if/when he requests it and if the snake dies. For now according to the buyer he is soaking in room temp water, and moving around the cage in alternating rotations. So he seems ok. He has a habbit of tilting his head when looking at you but he has always had that.

What signs should I have the buyer watch for that the snake is not going to make it?

And can someone explain to me, idiot that I am, how and when to use ice packs? I did not see anything about using ice packs when prepping to ship and now I feel like a moron.

If this snake dies I am going to hate myself and be terrified of shipping ever again.

Sorry to hear about this. I know next time you will do perfectly, you are always very cautious with your snakes. Don't let this experience get you down, otherwise lotsa other ppl will have to suffer without have one of your wonderful critters.

That is so sweet. I am consoled that the snake arrived alive and was acting normally last time he was checked on. The buyer is going to keep me posted, he was planning on breeding him. Will this effect the chances of that at all??

I'll be the mean one and tell you what you should have done. Not to make you feel worse, but so maybe some other inexperienced shipper will be aware of things to take into consideration in the future.

First, this is the most dangerous time of year to ship. It is NOT SAFE to ship when the temps are in the 90s. You can take precautions, but you are still taking a risk. Ask Stephanie how long I made her wait to get her Scout and Colorado back after I babysat them for a year! Well into the fall.

The _only_ safe way to ship when it is hot is to have the package held for pick-up. No exceptions. That way, when mistakes happen, at least the package is in an air-conditioned building, not out in a truck.

An ice pack will only last part way through the night. Its purpose is to keep your snake cool enough to get it to Memphis (assuming you are shipping FedEx), where hopefully temps ought to be 80F or less when it arrives around midnight. You can use refrigerated ice packs in addition to frozen packs to help stabilize the temperature- to slow the rising temperatures. By morning, the ice pack is thawed and no longer cooling your snakes. They need to be in a safe, air-conditioned place (the FedEx office) by this time.

If you have any doubts at all, in the future, about your ability to keep the inside of your package at a safe temperature- less than 80F- you just need to hold off shipping until the weather permits. I would consider night time lows of 75 or less to be safe for an inexperienced shipper- and the snake _must_ be held for pick-up. A buyer ought to consider the safety of the snake above all, and wait for you to find an acceptable shipping temp at your end, Memphis and the destination. And it's your responsibility as the shipper to not allow a buyer to pressure you into shipping when it isn't safe.

I hope your boy is okay. I don't see how it could affect his future breeding potential as long as he recovers in all other ways. It sure wouldn't hurt to take him to a vet ASAP for a thorough check up. You can't undo any damage that has been done, but you can document the presence or absence of shipping trauma.

Night temps here are in the mid to low 70s, sometimes in the 60s like last night which is why I thought it ok to ship him. I had to have my furnace on last night. Temps would have been fine if I had done pick up like you said. So in the future hold at the hub instead of home delivery even though we lined it up so that he would be there? Gotcha. I will let him know you recommend a vet visit. Thank you for your honesty. I need honesty so I can learn the ins and outs of all this. It means a lot to me that you felt you could be blunt and give the facts. Its what I asked for. I knew I messed up when he told me what happened. Turns out though if I had used the ice pack he should have been ok, the guy got another shipment same time and the other person used on and they were fine. I keep kicking myself Will pay closer attention to temps in the future.

Nanci nailed it...

You had a learning expieirance... :cheers:

Sorry. I hope the snake does ok. Please keep us posted.

I am not shipping yet. But New England weather being what it is, I see only narrow windows of possible safety for delivery to home or office in the spring & fall. Otherwise it's too hot or too cold on the truck! So I have already figured out if I'm not willing to go to the terminal, I don't need the snakes, and I am sorry this happened to your snake. They are sturdy critters so I will keep my fingers crossed that he makes a good recovery in the hands of his new human.

So far he seems ok and I have put a notice on my website that if the buyer insists it goes to their home I offer NO LIVE guarantees. I also put to know where the nearest UPS center is before buying from me. Now I need to get my membership upgraded here and on faunaclassifies lol.

Better than that, I'd just NOT SHIP when the weather doesn't permit. Why needlessly kill snakes? :shrugs:

So you are saying that shipping snakes should be limited to like Sept to Nov? Its the only time temps are not dangerous at all. Shipping after Nov requires a heat pack so isn't the cold just as dangerous? I am not trying to be a jerk, I really want to know when you ship or feel it is safe. Temps on my end were about lower 70s when the snake was picked up. That night it was still around that or lower. Now I know I did not ship within state, but that is an easy mistake to make the first time. I am trying to learn and frankly your reply did not teach me anything other than maybe you either don't ship at all or only during the time frame I listed. Please correct me if I am wrong, I really want to learn. If no one shares info they have learned then I have to go through trial and error.

carnivorouszoo said:

So you are saying that shipping snakes should be limited to like Sept to Nov? Its the only time temps are not dangerous at all.

Click to expand...

I have thought about this since I bought my first snake that was shipped last year. I think it's safest September thru November and April & May. And I think hot packs work better than cold packs and that adult cornsnakes can tolerate a chill better than high temps so I'd rather be receiving snakes in cold weather than hot weather.

This is just me THINKING and I am a noobie. But corns brumate and survive it in the wild so that's how I got to the cold temps are less dangerous idea. I don't know if these thoughts are useful for you but I thought I'd share. I'd love to hear from experienced shippers.

thanks, besty! That makes a lot of sense! From now on I will only ship during those times. I will go change my site.

Here is what I have on my site and is the protocol we will follow from now on. Tips on improvements are greatly appreciated!

Notice: We will only ship snakes April 1st to May 30th or Sept 1st to Nov 15th. These are the safest times for shipping. We will only offer a Live Guarantee on snakes being picked up at the UPS centers, if you want it sent to your home I offer no guarantees at all. If the snake is picked up at the center and is DOA I will need photo proof that shows the snake's head marking, and one of the whole snake to prove identity of the snake, once the proof is given I will refund your money. I can not replace snakes due to the small number I offer. If the snake dies within 3 days of arrival I will give a half refund. After that I am not responsible. Upon receiving the animal I recommend giving water immediately so the snake can drink. I also recommend you take a photo as you take them out of the shipping box and weigh them. All snakes sold by us will be weighed before leaving and you will get that info along with a pre-shipping photo when it is sent. If you want a snake during the time we do not ship we will take payment but it will not ship until the safer weather/time frame arrives. During the wait you will receive weekly updates and photos. Should a snake on hold die in our care an immediate full refund will be given.

Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm a n00b buyer, and since Drizzt80 clued me in to the idea, I'm insisting that snakes get held for pickup myself! I have nightmare visions of delivery problems, and even though I'm in Seattle now, where temps are a bit chilly if anything, I just feel it's safer. If anyone has a problem with you shipping that way, they probably just need to be told why it's a better idea. I think we all want happy healthy snakes! And fingers crossed that your poor little shipling gets better soon!

I ship all year, BUT...

there may be several weeks at a time that I don't ship because of weather at a particular destination.

I offer a flat fee for shipping babies - $39 per box if held at FedEx, or $49 delivered (which I TRY to insist is a business address instead of a home. FedEx drivers usually deliver to business addresses first, and then homes. And if they make a mistake, it is likely to be a residence mis-delivery). I may lose a little going to Seattle with the flat rate, and gain a little if the package is going to SC, but it isn't a lot, and makes it easier for customers to understand. AND it gives them an incentive to pick up at FedEx.

If the weather is really cold or hot, then pick up at FedEx is the only option I give. It is also cheaper, since a standard overnight package will arrive at the FedEx building first thing in the morning, same as Priority overnight. And they automatically get the signature when picked up without an extra charge. There is also an extra charge for residential delivery, and another charge for rural. So you (and your customer) can save money AND it is safer and faster for the animals - a "win - win" if there ever was one! So about 80% of my shipments are held for pick up, unless the customer just can't do it, and the weather is mild.

For cool weather shipping:

Another common mistake that new shippers make is to use a heat pack when it is not needed. We are lucky shipping corns and other colubrids. As long as the stomach is empty, corns can take a lot of chill. Chill is MUCH safer than too much heat. I never use a heat pack on corns if the lowest temp en route is 40F or above. I just use extra insulation, since it is not likely the box will be exposed to the lowest temps for long. If you are concerned, put a tightly sealed plastic soda bottle of water in the box as thermal mass to slow cooling inside (making sure it can't roll around on top of the snake, of course). But if you use a heat pack in a small box, you can cook your snake pretty quickly. Better too cool than too hot! If you do use heat, be sure to put LOTS of crumpled paper between the snake and the heat. I sometimes even use bubble wrap to separate the snake from the heat - can't be too careful about too much heat - it is a killer! And remember that the heat packs use oxygen, too.

It is always a concern between using a bigger box for safety (doesn't change temps as quickly as a small box), and a smaller box for cost containment. You have to check temps along the route, and decide whether is it safe to use a small, inexpensive box or not. Shipping safely is like a whole, separate business that takes a lot of thought and some experience to do it both safely and cost effectively.

I remember participating on some other shipping threads here on CS. You might want to search for shipping threads and see what everyone had to say for more info.

IMHO: THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING A SHIPPER CAN DO TO ENSURE ANIMAL SAFETY IS TO GET THE RECIPIENT TO AGREE TO PICK UP AT THE FEDEX (real FedEx, not Kinko's or a pack and ship place) OFFICE.

Thank you so much for your information Kathy, I have taken notes from what you wrote and have a growing bank of info and other people's experience to pull from next time I need to ship. I also now fully understand why the snake(s) should be picked up at the hub/center/office. And like you said it takes thought to do this and I just did not think it all the way through, luckily I have this forum to turn to and even more luckily, the snake seems to be recovering well. All in all, the buyer and I both learned alot and were very lucky the snake still lives and so far is fine.

Kathy and Nanci pretty much summed everything up. I just want to note one of the major differences between shipping FedEx versus UPS...UPS trucks do NOT have air conditioning and are OPEN to the outside weather while FedEx trucks are enclosed and have A/C and heat.

On a personal level, I detest packages being shipped by UPS. I know how careless their drivers are with packages. The worst instance was when I watched one purposely drop a $10,000 piece of lab equipment off the back of the truck, heard the smash of it breaking from inside the building, and was flabbergasted when after we told the driver to pick it right back up and send it back, he questioned "why?". That is fairly typical of delivery at work, For home, I have never actually seen the driver as UPS has yet to deliver anything before 8:00PM at night and refuses to drive the 300 feet up to the house, leaving every package by my garbage cans or hung either on the fence in full view of the road or in one of several trees. You want to ship a snake to me via UPS? Not a chance!!

I worked for UPS briefly a long time ago. I threw boxes at a sorting facility. Yeah, I meant to type "threw" 'cuz that's what we did. It was cold as anything in the winter & hot as anything in the summer in the building. No one could get 40 hours a week because then UPS would have to pay for benefits. The hours were the middle of the night. And no one cared what we did to those boxes. No one. I was TOLD to throw them because it was faster.

I worked for Fedex as a package handler for a year or so (several years ago)
things were not better there than what has been described at UPS above