Is it ok to house two snakes together?

Just want your opinion

Oh God!! Here we go!!

MegF. said:

Oh God!! Here we go!!

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Have no fear, the Cornsnakes.com FAQ's will be here shortly, I <b>PROMISE</b>.

In the meantime...

"Housing snakes together - my very, very long opinion

I see that this subject has been discussed here A LOT lately, with lots of opinions and experiences that have supported both sides of the question. A number of members have privately emailed to me and asked me to post my opinion over the past few weeks, so here it is, and very long winded it will be, lol! Sorry for the length, but it seems such an active subject that I want to say everything I have to say at one time.

I generally do not house babies or adults together myself, but might consider doing so under certain conditions. I have colony bred Sinaloan milks in the past with good luck. And I have kept partial litters of baby corns together until their first meal, since that is when the most problems, stress or cannibalism, are likely to start. I have had at least 2 occasions since 1985 when a baby corn did eat another, even though they had never fed on anything before. Both cases were bloodreds, but I don't know if that means anything.

I am going to post 2 relevant FAQs that I email to those who write asking for advice (I have written a number of them on commonly asked questions). They are long and are meant for those who have little experience and need help getting started. Those who are already experienced don't really need to read them, as they will already have heard enough to make up their own minds on whether the risk justifies the benefits. Some will agree with me, and some not. But they are my opinions based on my experiences. So here it is, for what it is worth:

FAQ - Housing Snakes Together:

Please DO NOT keep babies (or any newly obtained corns) together!
Although some people have done it successfully, many more have had a lot
of problems. If you have to keep some together, do it with the well-established corns that have been in your collection for a long time.
The babies are already under stress with new homes, travel, and just
generally growing up. Please don't add to the stress anymore than you
have to. Cannibalism is possible, although not likely. More likely
problems include: going off feed, regurge, passing disease, early /
difficult pregnancy, etc.

It is a much better idea to get a bunch of little plastic shoeboxes or
"critter keeper" type terrariums and stack them on top of, or next to,
each other. After you have had the snakes for AT LEAST 3 or 4 months
and have gotten to know them individually, you could try combining some
of the best feeding, best growing ones in groups of two per cage.(be
sure to separate while feeding, and for 1/2 hour afterwards) There will
always be differences in feeding habits, timidity, etc. Some animals
are more prone to stress than others. You won't know which ones at
first, but after a few months you will know. Be ready to separate them
at the first sign of one going off feed, regurging, behaving unusually,
etc. They may look happy all curled up together, but that doesn't mean
they aren't stressing out. Snakes are not really social animals and
generally only willingly spend time together during mating or
hibernation, although they may sometimes choose the same basking or
hiding spots when vying for the best places. In my opinion, optimum
site selection is what you are probably seeing when they are curled up
together, rather than friendship. However, once they have gotten very
used to a cage-mate over a long time, they probably grow to prefer that
situation, since any change is stressful. Just remember that they are
individuals and that each individual is different. Knowing your
particular animal is paramount to providing the best situation for it,
and that takes time and observation.

The reason I keep referring to babies is because that is what most
people buy from a breeder. But the same would be true of newly
acquired yearlings or adults - they would also be new and suffering
from the stress of travel and adjusting to a new home. Any new animals
should be quarantined and their habits observed for a 2 - 4 months
anyway. I would not suggest that you put two (or more) together unless
they have both been in your collection for at least a few months and are
approximately the same size.

If you follow these instructions, you will often be able to EVENTUALLY
keep 2 or 3 together once they are well acclimated. Just depends if you
get a shy one. The more you keep in one cage, the more likely
complications will occur (as mentioned above, going off feed, regurge,
passing disease, etc.)

Please feel free to call if I can answer any other questions for you."

Good luck!
Kathy Love

*sigh* Try the search function...

exactly what i thought "here we go !!!!"

Not everyone has the netiquette skills required to know that searching on a topic that has been beaten to death amongst long-term members here is the "correct" way to to get info they are looking for...For many, this may be the first place they've EVER gone online and they just don't know...While we may all sigh a bit or say "Ah geez, not another thread about XXXX", posting it generally just adds a negative tone and may scare off newbies and such, which of course we all were at some point (and may still be)...Not a sermon, just a thought.

Well said, Chris.

A simple link to the Kathy's FAQ or Joe's soon to be FAQ is helpful. A note that the search function is also a wonderful tool doesn't hurt, either.

I'd hate to see this forum get the "Newbie Bashing" rep that Kingsuck.com is notorious for. We were all newbies once. It doesn't hurt much to be helpful. Mentioning that there is a FAQ and a search function is fine and good, but an answer is helpful as well. I would have started with a recommendation to read the FAQ thread by Kathy, but Joe has already quoted the pertinent sections. I believe it was well written. :santa:

Personally, on the subject of co-habitating, I prefer not to if it can be avoided. I believe that it adds undue stress on them that can have a variable detrimental effect from hardly any harm at all to causing extreme stress, poor weight gain, and regurgitation. A lot of it depends on the temperament of the snake. I certainly don't advocate keeping snakes of disparaging sizes together (such as hatchlings with adults) as I think it's too much stress on the smaller snake. The only time I like to keep my snakes together is if I'm keeping breeding groups together, especially for a shy or younger male. They seem to do better for me in that situation than if I pull them out to a breeding box and expect them to perform. I don't see a reason to keep hatchlings together and I think they are more likely to stress when forced to cohabitate, so I avoid that practice. (Anything I can do to prevent poor doers/regurgitators/non-growers/non-feeders, I will do.)

If you have to cohabitate or just simply really really wish to, then do make sure the enclosure is big enough to give them enough space to keep away from each other if they wish to and have plenty of desirable hides to reduce "hide competition". Be on the lookout for signs of stress such as skipping meals, weight loss or failure to grow, poorly digested stools, regurgitation, etc.

Kathy's F.A.Q. on Connie Hurleys part of this forum is the best explanation i have seen, and after reading it any further questions you have people will be happy to advise.

Check it out here for full infomation from Kathy Love

On a personal note i have done both, housing 2 together and individual, i've never had a problem, but problems can and do happen, but i am not saying you should or should not, just my $.02.

Lol

:-offtopic

Joejr, at 1st I didn't realize you were quoting Kathy, AND I read the part about having 2 cases of cannibalism since 1985, I thought "wow, I didn't know he'd been breeding corns that long!" Then I looked at your info and it says you are 21 and for a sec it seemed you'd been breeding corns since you were 1 - a child prodigy! Anyway, I finally saw it was not your original words, and I was :roflmao: ! Anyway, I know this is way offtopic, but I thought it was funny and I always like to share funny stuff.

cka said:

Not everyone has the netiquette skills required to know that searching on a topic that has been beaten to death amongst long-term members here is the "correct" way to to get info they are looking for...For many, this may be the first place they've EVER gone online and they just don't know...While we may all sigh a bit or say "Ah geez, not another thread about XXXX", posting it generally just adds a negative tone and may scare off newbies and such, which of course we all were at some point (and may still be)...Not a sermon, just a thought.

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Well said.

When newbies come on, they have a bunch of questions. Then they slowly switch over to answering some questions that they've learned the answers to through reading or experience. (This reinforces the learning process... what is it, 7 repeats before it goes into long-term memory?) Then they slowly switch over to not answering questions that they've already answered a few times, and only posting if they think something needs to be corrected or added to. By that time, another crop of newbies has come in to take their place and are enjoying answering questions themselves, so it all tends to work itself out pretty smoothly, well usually anyway, hehe. So if someone asks a question you don't want to answer, never fear, there's almost always someone who will want to answer it.

The other thing to remember is that there's only so many questions that can be asked. If nobody posted repeat questions, this forum would get, what, 1 post per year?

Trust me, a FAQ will be helpful, but it will not replace all asking/answering of questions. At least I hope it won't. It's not just about the information here, it's a place to have conversations. (Otherwise Rich would have just put up his own FAQ and been done with it years ago. )

Sure you can keep them together, these two are perfectly happy!

Clint Boyer said:

Sure you can keep them together, these two are perfectly happy!

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:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

P.S.: Good point Serp!

I havent been a snake owner for long. Because of that i cant really contribute much to this but i have housed two corns together. About 3 weeks after i got my amel i bought a ghost hes a lil guy (actually i dont know what sex they are). Anyways i put him in with my amel they got along pretty well.I had 4 hides in and i would find them together sometimes in the warm or cold side. I recently removed them when i built my new enclosure.


Thats my .02!!

Btw Plz dont bash me all at once.

The member asked for OPINIONS...OPINIONS can be found useing the search tool. I believe I recall a poll being done a month or so ago.

This whole topic is old. I'm sure their are others who are tired of it being brought up time after time...Even when their are at least 3 detailed threads already in existance explaining all the ins and out, pros and cons...

I don't know...I'm tired...I'm waiting for my magazine to be uploaded onto the FTP for the printer...then I'm heading for bed...

Lol

Clint Boyer said:

Sure you can keep them together, these two are perfectly happy!

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LOL :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Thank you, Clint. Good way of making the point nice and clear!

Good point cka, it's hard for a lot of us who have been on here for a while to remember, but some people just don't know :shrugs: Maybe it should go into some sort of "Read This First" sticky thread? Can't wait for that FAQ, Joejr14! I'm sure it'll be excellent!

parting them

Our skizm and squirm were purchased at the same pet store. One a beautiful black and white and the other a beautiful red and oarnge. We did'nt even know they were there untill the guy picked up the water bowl and there they were. We purchased squirm and then skizm the next week. They love being in the same tank, getting skitish when the other is taken out, so we try to take them out at the same time.
Now are only problem is finding out if their both male or female or opposite sex's. :shrugs:

myst said:

Our skizm and squirm were purchased at the same pet store. One a beautiful black and white and the other a beautiful red and oarnge. We did'nt even know they were there untill the guy picked up the water bowl and there they were. We purchased squirm and then skizm the next week. They love being in the same tank, getting skitish when the other is taken out, so we try to take them out at the same time.
Now are only problem is finding out if their both male or female or opposite sex's. :shrugs:

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How do you know they love being in the same tank? Did they tell you that?

Snakes are solitary creatures. They do not live in packs, or groups, or anything of the sort. They might tolerate living with another snake, but they certainly do not 'miss' the cagemate when it is taken out of the tank.

They're getting skittish because a giant hand is reaching into their 'home' and yanking them out of it---it has nothing to do with them freaking out because they're alone.

When I was new I found the search function difficult as I didn't understand some of the terms like, 1.1.1 and I got blasted for asking, really made me 'gun shy' for a while. As far as co-habing I would rather they ask, if they will take advice, then end up with dead or young gravid corns. I totally agree with Joe about snakes being incapable of love or missing each other, but I got blasted for that remark too.
Back to the question no I don't co-habit, won't co-habit. If you want to co-habit go for it but be aware of the risks and don't say they are in love. Snakes in the same hide, probably because that is the most comfortable heat varient. And last but not least just because the pet store does it doesn't make it right.
As for Myst do you have pics of your black and white corn snake? I'ld love to see it.
unch: susan

Susan...this thread is 2 years old...

Well duh! I just went to new posts and read, guess I'll have to look at dates. :blowhead: susan