CornSnake in the wild.... :)

I agree. I've just argued that position before and I generally don't like to argue the same thing twice. I get tired.

I also agree with some here that it's certainly not the worst ecological disaster to hit the U.S. that people are releasing captive bred and kept animals into wild populations. But it not being the worst thing possible doesn't make it the best and most responsible choice, either.

The trouble with releasing things into mother nature is that mother nature often ends up having to deal with consequences we didn't foresee. I don't have any particular trouble with any of the potential consequences people have thought of. But we've seen over and over again that we get into trouble because it's often the case that there are consequences to these things that people didn't anticipate.

A good read much related to this.
http://www.anapsid.org/conserv.html

Wow. I didn't even consider the possibility of pathogens being introduced into the native population. I was a biology major with an ecology background and should have known to consider that right off the bat. I was leaning toward the idea that most would sucumb to predation and would have no real impact on the wild population anyway. I may have to re-think my stand on this issue. However, I still believe that the genes responsible for the different morphs have been present in the genepool for a long time anyway, and that they were not created by man. That said, I don't believe Rich is "tampering with nature" in that respect.

Scott

scott, I would think that typically if there was a pathogen, it would be showing in the captive population as well. Different breeders keep fairly isolated colonies, so you should see obvious signs of pathogen transmission whenever they brought in an outside snake, even with quarantine. The main big thing to worry about is to make sure that crypto does not get released with a snake.

Originally Posted by Shiari

scott, I would think that typically if there was a pathogen, it would be showing in the captive population as well. Different breeders keep fairly isolated colonies, so you should see obvious signs of pathogen transmission whenever they brought in an outside snake, even with quarantine.

This was my logic. Rich was very successful. He had a big enough "name" that if he was selling sick snakes, I would have run across that info on the Internet. I am a big user of multiple search engines & a big reader of lots of the things that come up in the search engine results. I really think I would have run across "Rich Z sold me a sick snake!" if it was out there to find. That's why I dismissed the contagious disease issue in a previous post. I don't know Rich personally & don't own any snakes he bred, so I doubt much group think on my part.

Most likely not as hatchlings. I got two from Susan where the entire clutch was problem feeders. Both of them ended up dying. Sometimes things just go wrong genetically or congenitally. A snake that I got at the 2008 San Jose expo was also a non-feeder from the get go that I force fed for many many many months. Turns out he had something congenitally wrong with his stomach and when I finally tube fed the correct size meal of egg yolk into him.... his stomach ruptured. :/ Ended up euthanising him. There was no gastric swelling, his feces were always completely normal, he was otherwise bright, alert, and responsive. Never regurged the various tails and legs I shoved down his gullet.

Originally Posted by dave partington

Crotalus, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had not realized Rich's snakes were carrying pathogens which would adversely affect native populations.

Sorry Dave, but I have no clue if you're being serious or not. On one hand you posted something entirely reasonable- that you didn't know that Rich's snakes were [potential] carriers of pathogens which would adversely effect native populations...then on the other hand you posted a buncha these thingies: and so now it looks like you're being disingenuous.

Fair enough, but if you're point is sarcastic and actually that Rich's snakes are absolutely not carriers of potentially harmful "pathogens", please explain to me exactly how you've come to this conclusion. Also, did you find anything in my post to be incorrect?

I missed a few responses so I'll comment really quick here...

I don't know much about the possibility of pathogens being released into native populations through contact with captively released animals...other than to say that there is a possibility. In fact, there's enough of a possibility that some states have initiated law changes to reflect this risk. Of course we must all determined how precautious we want to be, but when it comes down to releasing animals that have no business being released in the first place- I saw that on behalf of the herps we truly love, err on the side of caution.

After all- this isn't just a pursuit of self interest,pleasure and proffit to many herpers, rather it's a genuine passion that stems from an honest and authentic love for reptiles and amphibians.

I appreciate the sentiment, Rattler.

Dave, if you email Rich, I do believe he has the capability of changing your display name. That way you can use your 'davesfiles' account.