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Rich Z's Blatherings Since Connie and I have retired the SerpenCo business, topics here will focus on topics of a more personal and general nature.

Went for a little drive...
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:35 AM   #1
Rich Z
Went for a little drive...

First time I've had the car out in over 2 months. The drivetrain noise I have been having off and on for, well, years, seemed to be getting a lot worse, so it kind of took the fun out of driving it. Well, that and we had a lot of rain from around mid May thru mid June, and I didn't feel like going mud bogging in the car on our sandy road.

I wanted to do a test drive, looking for evidence of a possible bad pilot bearing and set up my GoPro Hero 6 to take video. First time I have really used this camera. But as you will see in the video, the drive was pretty much noise free. Except from the exhaust, of course...

What I wanted to do was to run the car up to speed, and then leaving the transmission in gear, let off the gas pedal to bring the engine speed down to idle, then push in the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch pressure plate from the clutch disk. Therefore the car's speed would actually be high, but the engine speed would be at idle. That would have the drive train from the clutch disk back to the rear wheels spinning rapidly, yet the pilot bearing, flywheel, and clutch pressure plate would be only at idle speed. The idea was that if the pilot bearing were bad, then in this condition, with the torque tube input shaft spinning rapidly, if the pilot bearing were shot, I would hear a clatter or squealing as the nose of the input shaft rattled around in the bad pilot bearing. However, no such noise was evident when I tried that. I tried it a couple of times, just to be sure. So much for that idea.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM3b5ol3bQo&t

Actually, except for a minor squeal when coming out of my driveway, you would never think there was a drivetrain noise problem at all.

The GoPro seemed to do a pretty decent job. I guess image stabilization was enabled, because the video seems very smooth and stable to me.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 10:52 AM   #2
Twolunger
Even with my hearing aids turned up I only heard the mellow pipes and the turn signal. It drives me nuts when I hear a strange noise, but cannot reproduce it for the technicians at the dealership. As long as there is no vibration I wouldn't be too concerned, but keep investigating. I hate it when the technicians (mechanics) tell me to wait until a problem gets worse and bring the car back. I want it fixed BEFORE the problem gets worse.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 11:05 AM   #3
Rich Z
The noise did get pretty bad a couple of months ago. Which is why I stopped driving it. I was trying to arrange with a shop down near Tampa that I have had do work for me a long while back to take a look at it for me, but the guy insists on being hard to reach. So I just gave up. I'm not going to chase someone down and tackle them to the ground to take my money.

So I am talking with another shop that says they can bring the car in sometime next month when they have an opening in their scheduling.

When the clutch engages, yes, there is a vibration that can be felt through the shifter shaft. I'm just leaning more and more to just accepting that the clutch itself is the cause of the problem. It's a Centerforce clutch, and from what I have read on the net, they have a reputation for being noisy.

Yeah, if the noise were to stay no worse than it was the other day when I took it out for a drive, I wouldn't be worried about it. I would just hate to break down along the road. Happened twice with this car. Once when the damage being done by Pfadt sending the wrong sized drive shaft finally came to a head (plus the accumulating damages done by the previous two shops that worked on the car). The clutch slave cylinder failed, leaving me without a clutch. Second time was when the fuel line to my fuel filter popped off. That one was my fault, because I had tried to remove that line to replace the filter, and when it proved to be resistant to my efforts, I figured it wasn't all that important because I had changed it out not that long ago. Well, apparently I had loosened the connector, and when I took it out for a drive and accelerated, raising the fuel pressure, that was enough to pop it off. Fortunately a fire didn't result from that one, as gasoline was being sprayed underneath the car when the fitting came loose. That could have been the end of the story, right then and there.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 12:14 PM   #4
Twolunger
I have read that the weights in CenterForce clutches can cause vibration. I'm almost sure my brother had a McLeod in his Corvette. I have also heard good things about the Textralia Z series. I would ask my brother about them, since he's a certified master mechanic with years of experience, but he was wiped out on the expressway riding his motorcycle Saturday in Daytona. He won't be able to answer any questions for a while for sure.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 01:31 PM   #5
Rich Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twolunger View Post
I have read that the weights in CenterForce clutches can cause vibration. I'm almost sure my brother had a McLeod in his Corvette. I have also heard good things about the Textralia Z series. I would ask my brother about them, since he's a certified master mechanic with years of experience, but he was wiped out on the expressway riding his motorcycle Saturday in Daytona. He won't be able to answer any questions for a while for sure.
Ouch, hope he is OK. Back when I had first gotten my driver's license, I was driving my mom's car up to the local hangout and happened to drive by a guy on a motorcycle who had apparently just wiped out and laying in the road. There was a crowd around him, but traffic was still passing through slowly. The oddest damn thing happened. The guy looked at ME and said loud enough for me to hear in a pleading voice, "I can't feel my legs." Sends chills up my spine even now thinking about it. Tell you what, absolutely KILLED any interest I ever had in owning or riding on a motorcycle.

Connie once said that she wanted to get a motorcycle. All I said is that I will never try to stop her from doing that, but I really wish that she would not. Regardless, I wasn't going to get on one. She never did get a bike.

Anyway, I've read good things about McLeod clutches. Also Monster brand seems to get very high marks. I think my choice will depend a lot on where I take the car too and what they recommend. Some shops won't guarantee their work unless you go with what they recommend. Which is how I wound up with a Centerforce clutch in my car. During the build I had a Fidanze clutch in it, but with the Pfadt driveshaft destroying it in short order, I really didn't run it long enough to form any opinion about it. I do know that I did NOT like the aluminum flywheel. For street driving, I think you need some rotational weight at the flywheel to make driving the car easy to live with. Otherwise you have to put a lot more RPMs on the engine just to move away smoothly from a dead stop, which, obviously, will cause premature wear on the clutch.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 04:33 PM   #6
Twolunger
It's touch and go whether he will make it. Sue and I were excited about riding our cycles down here until we started seeing motorcycle accidents. If people can't see a full dress Harley I sure don't want to ride around here. We sold our cycles immediately.

My brother in the Keys said last week he turned on to his street and there was a full dress Harley laying in the road. He stopped, and what he described as a 90 year old woman came walking over. He asked if she saw what happened to the rider and she said she was the rider. He couldn't believe it because she didn't weight 100 pounds. She said she was going too slow and lost her balance. He asked her how many years she had been riding, and she said two weeks. She said she always liked seeing motorcycles so figured she would get one. She said she took a course and passed her driving test. He asked if she thought a full dress Harley wasn't a bit much, but she said it was what she wanted. The cycle was so heavy he said the two of them could barely stand it up. But they finally got it upright and she took off at about 10mph. Now there's an accident ready to happen. I hope her family knows what she is doing.
 
Old 06-30-2018, 07:13 PM   #7
Rich Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twolunger View Post
I have read that the weights in CenterForce clutches can cause vibration.
Looking through some threads concerning Centerforce clutches making noises.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ce-clutch.html

Quote:
Thinking that I would improve my car for HPDE's I replaced my stock clutch with a Center force clutch. My Tech said that he's used it on all his customers cars without a problem but I should know that there will be some chatter for a time period, the chatter is getting less as expected. With the Center force I'm hearing all sorts of rattling noises at idle with the clutch let out but goes away when the clutch is depressed. Also, if I don't let the clutch out and add throttle perfectly I hear a metal grinding and scraping noise as I roll forward or reverse but goes away as rpm increases. I never had this happen with my stock clutch and I've been driving manual transmissions for over 30 years and never had this happen. Has anyone had this happen
Quote:
I spoke with Centerforce and my tech, both stated that the rattling at idle and the metal on metal noise as you release the clutch and give it throttle are totally normal.
So, Centerforce says it is "normal", eh? Maybe for a Centerforce clutch it is, but not what I want to be hearing when I am driving my car.
 
Old 06-30-2018, 07:15 PM   #8
Rich Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twolunger View Post
It's touch and go whether he will make it.
How is your brother doing? I hope he pulls through ok.
 
Old 06-30-2018, 08:26 PM   #9
Twolunger
Doesn't look good. 60 units of blood so far and heart stopped twice. Medically induced coma for a couple days, but the paralytic was stopped 2 days ago and they expected him to open his eyes. Now they want to test for brain activity. Many broken bones, but he's too weak to try to fix them now. If he makes it there will be months of recovery and more surgeries. He's 65 so things don't heal fast. Sure doesn't make you want to ride a motorcycle.
 
Old 06-30-2018, 11:34 PM   #10
Rich Z
Damn.... Sorry to hear that things don't look good.

Yeah, having 4 wheels underneath you traveling at high speed is much safer than 2 wheels. But I don't think anyone rides a motorcycle with personal safety reasons uppermost in mind. I can see the attraction, but just not my cup of tea.

Even though it will still be a long and rocky road, I hope he pulls through.
 

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