• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

I seem to always miss the "morph" in the wild!

Chip

Chip

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
A couple years back a guy herping with me found an albino eastern box turtle. I had to work and missed out on this:
2vklvtt.jpg

11ki24z.jpg

I don't know what to call it, but it's almost a Palmetto black rat! By accounts it was tame as could be, right from under the tin. Now for breeding trials to prove it out. Too bad no one wants black rats, huh? :crying:
 
Are you sure its a black rat or pine snake??? "In the head pic" it looks more Pine snake-ish to me. But pics can be misleading on a cell phone...
 
Chip, I'll take a black rat if it looks like that!!!

Was in a local find? Also, please tell me it's staying in the area! I really want one. :D
 
This kinda does raise a lot of questions.

Could this somehow be related to Palmetto? Intergrade? :sidestep: Big ol' sack of awesome?
 
BloodyBaroness said:
Chip, I'll take a black rat if it looks like that!!!

Was in a local find? Also, please tell me it's staying in the area! I really want one. :D
Click to expand...
I am sworn to secrecy on the location of the find. Largely, b/c we're going to breed him to every female normal from around there we can catch!
Buzzard said:
Are you sure its a black rat or pine snake??? "In the head pic" it looks more Pine snake-ish to me. But pics can be misleading on a cell phone...
Click to expand...
It's a black rat. I keep black pines and have caught hundreds (literally) of these snakes (minus the calico look, of course). Not a doubt in my mind this is P.o.obsoleta.
BloodyBaroness said:
This kinda does raise a lot of questions.

Could this somehow be related to Palmetto? Intergrade?
Click to expand...
No. It's well outside of the range you will ever see a corn snake where this animal was caught for starters. But the biggest difference is the palmetto corn's head looks nothing like this black rat's. The palmetto has the head of a corn. This animal has the head of a black rat. Outside of the patterning and eyes, which are darn similar on both animals, a close look at both will clear up any confusion. I do wonder if this is the same gene popping up in a black rat, and do find it very curious that these two sports would pop up in the same 5 year period. Too weird.
 
elrojo said:
I am sworn to secrecy on the location of the find. Largely, b/c we're going to breed him to every female normal from around there we can catch!

No. It's well outside of the range you will ever see a corn snake where this animal was caught for starters. But the biggest difference is the palmetto corn's head looks nothing like this black rat's. The palmetto has the head of a corn. This animal has the head of a black rat. Outside of the patterning and eyes, which are darn similar on both animals, a close look at both will clear up any confusion. I do wonder if this is the same gene popping up in a black rat, and do find it very curious that these two sports would pop up in the same 5 year period. Too weird.
Click to expand...

LOL! Go catch them all!!!

I'm just ribbing you. However, I agree, it's too weird. They do look freaky close though. Even that blue eye...
 
Buzzard said:
Are you sure its a black rat or pine snake??? "In the head pic" it looks more Pine snake-ish to me. But pics can be misleading on a cell phone...
Click to expand...

Eastern Pituophis have 4 prefrontal scales, this one only has two in the pic as far as I can tell so that would rule out any eastern form of Pituophis.

dc
 
I'd sure like to see what a clutch from this guy and a female Palmetto would produce. The general look reminds me of a white-sided Florida King, too. I'm not saying the two things are in any way related, of course not- just that as with the Tessera and gartersnakes, different types of snakes can evolve the same look.
 
Nanci said:
I'd sure like to see what a clutch from this guy and a female Palmetto would produce. The general look reminds me of a white-sided Florida King, too. I'm not saying the two things are in any way related, of course not- just that as with the Tessera and gartersnakes, different types of snakes can evolve the same look.
Click to expand...

Yeah, neat stuff, isn't it? I plan to have a female Palmetto before long, but wouldn't dream of pairing a black rat up with her! Maybe an F1 down the road, but that would just be for knowledge because whether the gene is compatible or not; I wouldn't want the hybrid babies... and wouldn't want to sell them, wouldn't want to freeze them...
 
Bryanchesnutt said:
Very interesting find. Though it does raise many questions
Click to expand...

I don't think it opens up nearly as many questions as people are thinking. Most of that what people were saying is playful banter.

Could this be a similar gene? Totally! Does this mean things are hybrids? Not totally. It's a cool animal and breeding trails will tell if it's genetic.

elrojo said:
Yeah, neat stuff, isn't it? I plan to have a female Palmetto before long, but wouldn't dream of pairing a black rat up with her! Maybe an F1 down the road, but that would just be for knowledge because whether the gene is compatible or not; I wouldn't want the hybrid babies... and wouldn't want to sell them, wouldn't want to freeze them...
Click to expand...

That would be a be a cool experiment with an F1. The gene certainly has some similar visual aspects, it would be awesome to know if it's compatible.
 
elrojo said:
Yeah, neat stuff, isn't it? I plan to have a female Palmetto before long, but wouldn't dream of pairing a black rat up with her! Maybe an F1 down the road, but that would just be for knowledge because whether the gene is compatible or not; I wouldn't want the hybrid babies... and wouldn't want to sell them, wouldn't want to freeze them...
Click to expand...

I know. I would want to know if the gene was compatible, but then there is the hybrid issue, and I have the same qualms you do. Still- the second that snake was captured, the question arose. Probably better to address it directly!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top