I seem to always miss the "morph" in the wild!

Originally Posted by BloodyBaroness

Chip, I'll take a black rat if it looks like that!!!

Was in a local find? Also, please tell me it's staying in the area! I really want one.

I am sworn to secrecy on the location of the find. Largely, b/c we're going to breed him to every female normal from around there we can catch!

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Are you sure its a black rat or pine snake??? "In the head pic" it looks more Pine snake-ish to me. But pics can be misleading on a cell phone...

It's a black rat. I keep black pines and have caught hundreds (literally) of these snakes (minus the calico look, of course). Not a doubt in my mind this is P.o.obsoleta.

Originally Posted by BloodyBaroness

This kinda does raise a lot of questions.

Could this somehow be related to Palmetto? Intergrade?

No. It's well outside of the range you will ever see a corn snake where this animal was caught for starters. But the biggest difference is the palmetto corn's head looks nothing like this black rat's. The palmetto has the head of a corn. This animal has the head of a black rat. Outside of the patterning and eyes, which are darn similar on both animals, a close look at both will clear up any confusion. I do wonder if this is the same gene popping up in a black rat, and do find it very curious that these two sports would pop up in the same 5 year period. Too weird.

Originally Posted by elrojo

I am sworn to secrecy on the location of the find. Largely, b/c we're going to breed him to every female normal from around there we can catch!

No. It's well outside of the range you will ever see a corn snake where this animal was caught for starters. But the biggest difference is the palmetto corn's head looks nothing like this black rat's. The palmetto has the head of a corn. This animal has the head of a black rat. Outside of the patterning and eyes, which are darn similar on both animals, a close look at both will clear up any confusion. I do wonder if this is the same gene popping up in a black rat, and do find it very curious that these two sports would pop up in the same 5 year period. Too weird.

LOL! Go catch them all!!!

I'm just ribbing you. However, I agree, it's too weird. They do look freaky close though. Even that blue eye...

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Are you sure its a black rat or pine snake??? "In the head pic" it looks more Pine snake-ish to me. But pics can be misleading on a cell phone...

Eastern Pituophis have 4 prefrontal scales, this one only has two in the pic as far as I can tell so that would rule out any eastern form of Pituophis.

dc

Originally Posted by RobbiesCornField

"Too bad no one wants black rats"?! AYFK?! SEND IT TO ME!

I agree! I'd love a few black rats that looked like that!

I'd sure like to see what a clutch from this guy and a female Palmetto would produce. The general look reminds me of a white-sided Florida King, too. I'm not saying the two things are in any way related, of course not- just that as with the Tessera and gartersnakes, different types of snakes can evolve the same look.

Very interesting find. Though it does raise many questions

Originally Posted by Nanci

I'd sure like to see what a clutch from this guy and a female Palmetto would produce. The general look reminds me of a white-sided Florida King, too. I'm not saying the two things are in any way related, of course not- just that as with the Tessera and gartersnakes, different types of snakes can evolve the same look.

Yeah, neat stuff, isn't it? I plan to have a female Palmetto before long, but wouldn't dream of pairing a black rat up with her! Maybe an F1 down the road, but that would just be for knowledge because whether the gene is compatible or not; I wouldn't want the hybrid babies... and wouldn't want to sell them, wouldn't want to freeze them...

Originally Posted by Bryanchesnutt

Very interesting find. Though it does raise many questions

I don't think it opens up nearly as many questions as people are thinking. Most of that what people were saying is playful banter.

Could this be a similar gene? Totally! Does this mean things are hybrids? Not totally. It's a cool animal and breeding trails will tell if it's genetic.

Originally Posted by elrojo

Yeah, neat stuff, isn't it? I plan to have a female Palmetto before long, but wouldn't dream of pairing a black rat up with her! Maybe an F1 down the road, but that would just be for knowledge because whether the gene is compatible or not; I wouldn't want the hybrid babies... and wouldn't want to sell them, wouldn't want to freeze them...

That would be a be a cool experiment with an F1. The gene certainly has some similar visual aspects, it would be awesome to know if it's compatible.

Originally Posted by elrojo

Yeah, neat stuff, isn't it? I plan to have a female Palmetto before long, but wouldn't dream of pairing a black rat up with her! Maybe an F1 down the road, but that would just be for knowledge because whether the gene is compatible or not; I wouldn't want the hybrid babies... and wouldn't want to sell them, wouldn't want to freeze them...

I know. I would want to know if the gene was compatible, but then there is the hybrid issue, and I have the same qualms you do. Still- the second that snake was captured, the question arose. Probably better to address it directly!

I would love to see it put over some of the calico black rats from Ky.