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Supersize corn

OCFinfan said:
How about everybody go to Florida on a vacation, and grab us one of these plentiful corns...we will see how much longer they are there.
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Easier said than done. I live in Florida and corns are plentiful, but just try to find one! I got lucky and found a wayward hatchling 10 years ago that would probably not had survived considering when and where she was found. She produced over 135 babies for me. Now go ahead and sue me for endangering the species!
 
OCFinfan said:
How about everybody go to Florida on a vacation, and grab us one of these plentiful corns...we will see how much longer they are there.
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And if any of your post had any basis in reality, that would mean something.
 
I think there is a HUGE difference between catching a "wayward" hatchling that probably wouldnt have survived compared to a gravid female. And I am glad it has produced for you. Maybe having bred and sold over 100 will save that many in the wild. But I did look at your website, and it seems you like the "wild caught" corns as well; you mention 1 wayward hatchling, but I see quite a few more of your breeders that are wild caught. Maybe you would have been happier with a gravid female rather than a hatchling, but just dont want to admit it. Hypocrisy rules in here.
 
Excuse me? Where are you finding all these wild-caught snakes on my site? I only have the one. Two of my other breeders were bred and born in captivity from a pair of wild-caughts owned by someone else. Every other snake on my website is captive bred and born. I believe an apology is in order here!
 
Serpwidgets said:
And if any of your post had any basis in reality, that would mean something.
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Serp, I gave you reality in my examples. If you have anything insightful to say other than a chance to bash, feel free. If not, then I just consider the source.
 
Geez Susan, you DECIMATED the wild population of over 130 cornsnakes! How selfish of you!!!!
 
OCFinfan said:
Maybe you would have been happier with a gravid female rather than a hatchling, but just dont want to admit it. Hypocrisy rules in here.
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And perhaps you'd have been happier if she said what you WISHED she would "admit". But you'd rather imply instead of dealing with what she DID say.

Thus, it begs the question. Just whose hypocrisy are you referring to?

OCFinfan said:
Ignorance must be bliss
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Then you must be happier than a crackhead in the Columbian hills.

regards,
jazz
 
Susan said:
Excuse me? Where are you finding all these wild-caught snakes on my site? I only have the one. Two of my other breeders were bred and born in captivity from a pair of wild-caughts owned by someone else. Every other snake on my website is captive bred and born. I believe an apology is in order here!
Click to expand...

look at your first couple of breeders and look at the parents......all wild caught. There are at least 3 right off the top. I dont feel I need to apologize when my proof is there. If I am wrong, I will be the 1st to apologize
 
Hey...it says "PARENTS are wild-caught" NOT the snakes I own! "Norma" is the only wild-caught...the hatchling I found 10 years ago. "Blotchy Half Stripe" was bred and born in captivity. There are NO OTHER from even wild-caught parents on the first page...seems like you can't even count. The only other one I own from wild-caught PARENTS, but BRED AND BORN in CAPTIVITY is "Broken Stripe 8"...in Gallery #3.

Now I'm waiting...
 
jazzgeek said:
And perhaps you'd have been happier if she said what you WISHED she would "admit". But you'd rather imply instead of dealing with what she DID say.

Thus, it begs the question. Just whose hypocrisy are you referring to?

Then you must be happier than a crackhead in the Columbian hills.

regards,
jazz
Click to expand...

I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild. And do you always jump in and compare someone to a crackhead when you havent presented your beliefs on the subject? Put out your beliefs for our judjment before you judge, unlike children
 
Susan said:
Hey...it says "PARENTS are wild-caught" NOT the snakes I own! "Norma" is the only wild-caught...the hatchling I found 10 years ago. "Blotchy Half Stripe" was bred and born in captivity. There are NO OTHER from even wild-caught parents on the first page...seems like you can't even count. The only other one I own from wild-caught PARENTS, but BRED AND BORN in CAPTIVITY is "Broken Stripe 8"...in Gallery #3.

Now I'm waiting...
Click to expand...

No need to wait, I apologize.
 
If 300 million people all jumped into the ocean at the same time, it would cause a tidal wave that could kill tens of thousands of people. Therefore, anyone who swims is a mass murderer.

Whatever. Keep reaching, dude.
 
Serpwidgets said:
If 300 million people all jumped into the ocean at the same time, it would cause a tidal wave that could kill tens of thousands of people. Therefore, anyone who swims is a mass murderer.

Whatever. Keep reaching, dude.
Click to expand...

I am stating my opinion on capturing wild snakes, and you have this as a reply?????? dude, keep sitting there thinking what a clever response that was and hope for everyones confirmation that "you da man!!!!"
 
No, you are not just stating your opinion on catching wild snakes. You are stating your opinion that everyone who has any kind of involvement with any snakes that are wild caught is evil. You are also stating your opinion that anyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant.

If field collecting is decimating the population, then why is it that corns are not on the endangered list? Why is it that corns are still plentiful? I guess the people who are currently decimating the population aren't doing a very good job of it.
 
Serpwidgets said:
No, you are not just stating your opinion on catching wild snakes. You are stating your opinion that everyone who has any kind of involvement with any snakes that are wild caught is evil. You are also stating your opinion that anyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant.

If field collecting is decimating the population, then why is it that corns are not on the endangered list? Why is it that corns are still plentiful? I guess the people who are currently decimating the population aren't doing a very good job of it.
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I never said anyone was evil. And I never said people that disagree with my opinion are ignorant. And FYI, EVERY animal that is either extinct or endangered was at one time plentiful. And just to reiterate what I have previously said, I think there is a HUGE difference in capturing a snake that obviously doesnt have a chance, like Susan;s wayward hatchling, compared to a gravid female. Now please dont put words in my mouth again
 
OCFinfan said:
I never said anyone was evil. And I never said people that disagree with my opinion are ignorant. And FYI, EVERY animal that is either extinct or endangered was at one time plentiful. And just to reiterate what I have previously said, I think there is a HUGE difference in capturing a snake that obviously doesnt have a chance, like Susan;s wayward hatchling, compared to a gravid female. Now please dont put words in my mouth again
Click to expand...

Wow, you've made QUITE a first impression with your first 11 posts...

That statement proved absolutely nothing except that all animals that have gone extinct, USED to be alive...uhh yeah...

So, just a question for you. Do you feel that the population of corn snakes has DECREASED since "we" started "catching" them? Or increased?
 
Endangered or threatened snakes of FLA

1. Pituophis melanoleucus mugitus Florida pine snake
2. Nerodia fasciata taeniata Atlantic salt marsh snake
3. Stilosoma extenuatum Short-tailed snake
4. Storeria dekayi victa Florida brown snake
5. Tantilla oolitica Miami black-headed snake; rimrock
crowned snake
6. Thamnophis sauritus sackeni Florida ribbon snake

True, there are presently no corn snakes on the list, but I wonder how many of these might be caught and kept by people "herpin" for corns, or have their habitat destroyed by these same people, possibly without them realizing it. This is the point I am trying to make. There are many other reasons for not keeping wild snakes, for instance parasites, diseases that might be passed onto captive bred snakes, to name a few. I try and make my opinions and beliefs based on facts that I am willing to present. If anyone out there can make a valid argument for keeping a gravid snake I am willing to listen. You slam me but present nothing other than rhetoric.
 
My Official Statement of Beliefs Regarding This Thread...

  1. I believe that you are, at base level, a troll. You use phrases like "unlike children", "ignorance must be bliss", "Then I just consider the source", et al, as the final lines of your (for lack of a better word) arguments in order to give them, or yourself, validity.
  2. I believe that you don't know the difference between a discussion and a "meta-discussion". I have every legitimate right to comment on faulty logic, conclusions based on emotion, and unsound reasoning without even mentioning the subject at hand. Most Philosophy departments at any reputable university will offer a course in this analytical process. It's known as "Logic".
  3. I believe that you're a master - no, make that a journeyman - of diversion in argumentation. I respond as to what you've implied instead of what was said, and your response is:
    OCFinfan said:
    I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild.
    Click to expand...
    Be that as it may, it did not address my point - that being, your assertion of:
    OCFinfan said:
    Maybe you would have been happier with a gravid female rather than a hatchling
    Click to expand...
    ...being an implication instead of dealing with what Susan did say:
    Susan said:
    I live in Florida and corns are plentiful, but just try to find one! I got lucky and found a wayward hatchling 10 years ago that would probably not had survived considering when and where she was found.
    Click to expand...
    This technique does not directly respond to the point(s) originally made. I concluded by posing a question to you:
    jazzgeek said:
    Thus, it begs the question. Just whose hypocrisy are you referring to?
    Click to expand...
    That's diversion. As of this post, the question, albeit hypothetical, remains unanswered.
  4. I believe that you can't discern the difference between a simile and a veiled insult. To wit:
    OCFinfan said:
    Ignorance must be bliss
    Click to expand...
    would be the insult, not directly to the person, but certainly extraneous to the argumentative process. My response:
    jazzgeek said:
    Then you must be happier than a crackhead in the Columbian hills.
    Click to expand...
    refers to the state of happiness ("bliss"). Thus you weren't being compared to a crackhead. A simile was drawn comparing your blissful ignorance to that of a crackhead in Columbia.
These statements of belief above have nothing to do with the issue at hand. However, they remain statements of belief. Now, onto the issue concerning w/c cornsnakes:
  1. OCFinfan said:
    To say nothing of the fact of completely decimating a species from their habitat.
    Click to expand...
    You've got it "bass-ackwards". The primary, and most comprehensive threat to the wild corn population (and the population of ANY species, imho) is not one of "increase of harvest" but rather, LOSS OF HABITAT. Rich Z recently started a thread of how other field herpers he has seen can devistate an area by simply not "putting it back the way you found it". Adding to that, a huge amount of habitat of Florida corns has been paved over for decades; yet the species continues to thrive. Look at it this way - here in Wisconsin, the "collection" of whitetail deer during hunting season has "decimated" the population to such a degree that a) you've been able to shoot a doe for decades now (with a antlerless permit, of course - and the number of those permits issued increases yearly); b)the length of some hunting seasons has been extended because of the numbers of available deer has continued to increase; and c) the whitetail population continues to not just survive, but thrive. The state DNR estimates the population to be at record levels. This is all because of the relative stability of habitat here.
What it boils down to is this: loss of habitat is a greater threat, by an exponential degree, to the corn snake population than field collection EVER will be.

Now, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION. This post is about to end without any type of passive/aggressive inflammatory comment. :)

regards,
jazz
 
OCFinfan said:
If anyone out there can make a valid argument for keeping a gravid snake I am willing to listen. You slam me but present nothing other than rhetoric.
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Why? Because I might want to.

There is no need to present a valid argument, because you have the burden of proof here. It is YOU who is going around telling people that the way they enjoy their hobby is wrong. It is YOU who is running around telling everyone else how to live their lives, as if it is any of your business. It is YOUR responsibility to first establish that it in fact IS harmful in some way. You have not presented anything other than fallacious reasoning and personal attacks.
 
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