Getting Discouraged

Try cutting the pinkies back, I heard that, that helps with the digestion. But it sounds like your doing everything you can do. I'm sure things will turn out in your favor. I'll cross my fingers for the best.

Good luck!

Jessica

Thanks for the idea, Jessica, but I already cut pinkies when feeding hatchlings. I appreciate your help, and crossed fingers, though.

:-offtopic (Is it OK if I hijack my own thread?) I have another poem for you that I wrote last summer when my puppy died of parvo. He was dumped in a ditch down the road from me, and decided to keep him. I had just gotten his first shots when he died. He was likely already sick before I even found him. I only had him a short time. This poem came to me in the night.

That is the way I do it. I don't write poetry, I write down the poetry that whispers itself to me in the night.


Heartbreak

Unexpectedly you came into my life.
You brought me joy, you brought me light.
Then suddenly you were gone again
And I’m left with the darkness of my grief in the night.

They say things happen for a reason
Yet all I can do is ask why?
Why am I left alone with
These empty arms, this ache inside?

There are no answers to my questions.
There are no reasons I can see.
At night hot tears fall to my pillow.
There is no comfort yet for me.

(August 7, 2005)

That's so sad Becky!! I hope you don't have to do that for Scarlett. I'm going to keep thinking good thoughts and send good healing energy to you!

Awwww that is so sad!:crying: I will too! I will send my happy wishes to you! And here is a poem for you.

Please stop your plea and cry,
My wishes go to you through the sky,
No more crying,
No more dying,
No more weeping,
No more sad sleeping,
Just look to the sky
To the stars way up high,
And there you will find,
Something very kind.

Short but true.

So sorry you are still having problems...

4 regurges are A LOT. I normally would be really guarded about the prognosis after that many, but the fact that she is still healthy, strong, and in good weight gives hope yet for a recovery. Also, the fact that she did very well until the feeding of 2 pinks is a good sign too.

Since you already have tried just pinkie heads without success, I would go to a few liquid feedings via syringe, along with Nutri Bac. I would use cooked egg yolk (no sense in adding more Salmonella than she already has!), meat baby food, or a cat food pate', or some mixture of those. Strain them through a tea strainer to make sure they will go through the tube, adding a little water to make it go through a little easier. If she is hatchling sized, I would give 1 cc of the mixture (with a pinch of NB mixed in). More if she is bigger. Sit down and put her tail between your knees, holding her upright in a vertical position, and keep her vertical for a minute or two after the feed so it doesn't come back up. Have a friend help if you need it. Repeat every 4 days or so. The liquid should be very easy to digest. If she can't digest even that, then she has some serious problems and the vet may need to do some cultures. If she digests it ok, then keep it up for at least 2 or 3 weeks (with a good pinch of NB each time) before trying another pinkie head. That should give her some strength and maybe get her digestive tract back in balance a little.

If you can't find a feeding tube online, maybe the vet can help. If you are nervous about tube feeding, maybe the vet can demonstrate, if he feels it is a good idea. As long as you avoid the opening in the bottom of the mouth (where the snake breathes), and keep it vertical for a minute or two, it should be pretty safe. What you are doing isn't working, so unless the vet has a different treatment, you are likely to lose the snake if you continue on the same treatment plan.

BTW, I have never found bloodreds to be particularly susceptible to regurges, although each family line may be different.

Hope it helps - let us know what happens. Good luck!

Thank you Kathy. I had actually thought about going to something like this--pureed pinky feed through a pinky pump or something. I, too, thought liquid food might be easier to digest. I'll try your suggetions, too. I have to go out to the vet this afternoon, so I'll ask him for a feeding tube. I helped him give her the wormer, so I think my son and I might be able to feed her.

She is 8 months old, but I still would consider her hatchling sized. She is only 17 inches long and not much bigger around than a pencil.

The one thing that hasn't been tried yet is switching food sources. Someone asked if these pinkies are all from the same bag. If so, this could be the problem. A couple years ago we had 20-30 of our adults regurge the same meal. It wasn't a coincidence.

I know others have mentioned having a mass regurge from individuals who have all eaten pinks from the same package. Sometimes you just get a bad batch. Until this problem is solved, I would definitely NOT feed that snake any more food from that batch, and if switching sources makes it go away, I would throw out that whole batch...

Another option for tube feeding is powdered eggs. I've been doing this with some of my non-feeders this year out of curiosity to see how they do, and they do grow instead of just withering away. Just add enough water to make it liquid enough to get it into the syringe... it's then thicker and seems to stay down a bit easier compared to fresh eggs.

Hope this helps, I puree whole adult mice, after chopping them as fine as I can. Then freeze roughly 5ml in each section of icecube trays. I defrost one when Lil is due feeding and chop it further as it defrosts to improve the texture more, then syringe into her after warming the syringefull to about bloodheat. It seems to be working for Lil, she is growing well, even if she still shows no sign of independent feeding. I find giving her about 2mls, waiting for it to travel down to her stomach, then 2 more and so on works best for us. I also add a sprinkle of calcium and vits to the whole mouse, less than half a little fingernail is the nearest measurement I can think of, as I don't want to overdose her but felt it may help.
I tried the above method with day-old chick, but they have yolk in their stomach and it really was far more disgusting, so back to mouse.
And yes my kids think I'm mental.

I too have used the powdered eggs a couple of times. They were a little difficult to find locally. The only place that had them was a camping supply store, not the health food store (they had only powdered egg whites). Or you can buy it online, of course.

Kathy how are ya?

I agree with you and Serp. Try a different source first.
George Van Horn uses nothing but chicken baby food for his venom production Coral Snakes and other small venomous snakes. And they are healthy and happy; or as happy as a hot snake can be. He says it easy to digest and provides plenty of vitamins and minerals.
What color are the stools? How much of each matter is there?

I don't think it is the pinkies themselves. She was eating from this batch before she started regurging, and my other baby about the same age is also eating from this batch and hasn't regurged a lick.

BUT I got some baby food chicken today, and that is what I'll be feeding her for a while. I just need to get some feeding tubes now. The vet wasn't in when I went by there, but I found some on Bean Farm and will be ordering them today. I don't know where I could find powdered eggs--used to get them from WIC, but my son is too old for that now.

Diamondlil, thank's for the tip. I will try that. Scarlett still eats eagerly, she just can't keep it down.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. Scarlett is peeking out at me from her hide. I've got to go change her water now...

Good luck Becky

And I would probably quarantine her. Check the stools for worms. If your vet can, get him a sample of the stool and see if he can have it analyzed. Take advantage of all the Nutirbac and other remedies you can.
One old time remedy I (from some old, old snakemen) use to do (usually someone comes along and chastises me for these but I'll tell ya anyway), at the first sign of a problem I would immediately remove the water bowls two days prior to feeding. Mix up a solution of 1 gallon water/tablespoon of bleach. Put the water bowl back in just after the feeding and leave overnight, replace with fresh water. Don't be surprised if that feeding is also a regurge. This remedy had moderate success I'll admit. I saved a few, lost a few.
And BTW, my bloodred is an eating machine.

She is already quarantined, and has been since the day I got her, about 6 weeks ago. She is in a room by herself, and I always wash my hands after handling any of my snakes. I see nothing amiss with her stools, except for being rather small, and she'd already been wormed prior to her fourth regurge. And thanks for the tip about depriving her of water then giving her bleach water, but I think it would be too late to try something like that. The first sign of a problem was a month ago--April 2nd was the date of her first regurge. I don't think she'd survive a fifth regurge, and don't want to risk it.

Oh and Scarlett is an eating machine, too. She eagerly scarfs everything I offer, she just can't hold it down.

i'm so sorry to read this becky i have no advice... just love and hugs to send your way!

(((hugs)))

Thank you, RG. I'll keep you updated. Right now I'm still waiting for the feeding tubes to arrive. But last night, she was out and about as usual, cruising her little viv.

i don't know if this is really bad advice or not... but here goes anyways...

have you thought about not feeding her for a couple of weeks... nothing at all. and then attempting to feed? perhaps if she gets nice and hungry she'll take it down (and with it injected and perhaps split to increase digestability) she'll keep it down?

off to read the pages of this entire thread again as perhaps this has already been discussed (i can't remember right now if it has)

aleesha

I have to wonder if she has a congenital problem with her stomach, maybe it's too small or not developed well enough to handle proper digestion? It's possible that this isn't bacterial/viral. She may have a physical problem that prevents her from digesting properly. Just a thought.

obviously my suggestion is not a good idea since you have switched to liquid feedings... how did i not remember that? sorry,... too many things going on in my mind at once.

sorry,
aleesha

dionythicus said:

I have to wonder if she has a congenital problem with her stomach, maybe it's too small or not developed well enough to handle proper digestion? It's possible that this isn't bacterial/viral. She may have a physical problem that prevents her from digesting properly. Just a thought.

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I've wondered about this as well, and have thought that it may be something like this. Yes, she is 8 months old, and has been eating fine up until this last month, but I also know that sometimes congenital defects take a while to show up.

Recycling goddess said:

obviously my suggestion is not a good idea since you have switched to liquid feedings... how did i not remember that? sorry,... too many things going on in my mind at once.

sorry,
aleesha

Click to expand...

No need to apologize. I appreciate knowing that you're pulling for us. I did try something like you suggested, in that I waited 10 days (twice) between feedings, cut the mice pretty deeply, and used Nutribac and the medicine the vet gave me. She never hesitates to eat the pinky. She just gives it back after a day.

I'm afraid if the liquid feedings don't work, I'll lose this baby.


Some folks at the vet's office made fun of me for bringing a snake in. They'd probably laugh even more if they knew this situation has reduced me to real, physical tears more than once. But I know the people here understand, and no one would laugh at me for going through all this for "just a snake."

Thanks for being here.

i aspire to be as good a crittermama as you are! i think the fact you've shed tears shows how much you care... and let's face it... those people at the vet's office should be alot more loving to animals if they are going to work there!!! obviously they don't understand how important it is for a snake to NOT regurge... how much it harms them.

that said, i am sending so many healing, healthy vibes to your little girl... let's all cross everything we can in hope that she keeps down her liquid food.

(((hugs)))