Respiratory Infection

Hello, I'm new to the site but I've been keeping snakes for 18 years. I find myself in need of a place to...more vent than anything and maybe get some help or some hope.

At the end of January my 8 year old cornsnake, Anna, came down with a respiratory infection. She was open mouth breathing, some clicking, with a small bit of mucus though seemed otherwise just fine. I work at a vet clinic and after some research, the doctor there prescribed me a two week course of Baytril. Over that two weeks, she didn't get any worse but she didn't get any better, either, so I took her to a proper reptile vet. At that clinic, we did a culture and I was given a course of Fortaz, 7 injections over a few weeks. The result was the same, Anna didn't get any better but she didn't get any worse. The culture came back negative for any growth.

So back to the vet where this time, we did a tracheal wash in order to try the culture again from a better source. The vet had wanted to do a body fluid cytology as well but, unfortunately, they couldn't get enough fluid from the wash to do both tests. So we went with the culture again. We had come to the end of the anti-biotics at this time but it didn't matter, Anna is still the same.

Through all of this, Anna has been herself. She is alert and active. She eats no problem. She has been a sweetheart through the procedures and the injections. About two weeks after realizing for sure what she had, she was isolated in a rubbermaid tub in a different room.

A few days ago, I noticed that Wes, one of my Diones rat snakes had a really swollen throat! It was like she had swallowed a little golf ball. The swelling is right behind the back of her skull. It is soft, fluid filled, and doesn't seem to pain her. When I opened her mouth, it was full of mucus. So...this morning, I took Wes to the vet. The vet thinks it is probably also a respiratory infection. There is no redness or irritation in her mouth to suggest a foreign body. Wes is not open mouth breathing, she is not clicking or wheezing. She is still alert though I will say that she is more...placid that usual. Usually she zips around all over but today she was very easy going with being handled. The swelling goes down when she is more active.

Now Wes is isolated as well, from both the other snakes and Anna. We have three Fortaz injections to give her just to try. I took her to the vet clinic where I work to do xrays but I can't read them myself and the vets at my clinic aren't exotics vets. The xrays have been sent to the exotics vet and I'm just waiting for them to call me. From what I can see on the xrays, no masses or anything like that.

To make things more frustrating, the second culture on Anna with the sample from the tracheal wash also came back negative for any growth.

I'm not sure what to do now! Anna almost seems better some days. She has her mouth fully closed and seems totally herself. Then I'll look in on her the next day and she is breathing through her mouth again.

And to make things even worse, I just checked my other snakes and one of my Russian rat snakes gave a few puffy little breaths. But he has just come out of blue and is getting ready to shed so I'm hoping that's the only reason he did that.

I don't know what to do! I'm very upset and worried for all my snakes. The doctor said that due to the two negative cultures, we could be dealing with a viral infection. I'm going to bring Anna (or maybe I should bring Wes?) back in for another tracheal wash to try and do the cytology we had wanted to do initially.

I've never had a sickness among my snakes before. I control their temps with thermostats and use flexwatt as a heat source. High end usually 84-85, cool end in the low 70's. Humidity at this time of year is low at about 40% but everyone always sheds fine. They are on aspen bedding and in PVC enclosures measuring 2x2 feet and 18 inches tall.

Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

This was very long, thanks to any who read it and reply!

I wish I had a solution to your problem, but respiratory infections can be caused by bacteria, viruses, or fungi. If the upper respiratory tract is infected by a virus I do not believe there is a cure, however most vets prescribe Baytril or Fortaz to treat secondary bacterial infections. Your vet may suggest trying to enhance your snake's immune system with vitamins. Vitamin A is sometimes recommended, but the dosage should be vet approved, as high dosages of the vitamin can be toxic. I don't think I need remind you that R.I. is usually highly contagious, and cross contamination by handling infected snakes and then healthy ones is possible. I sincerely hope you can get your snakes through this serious problem.

what are the temps in your cages?

I had a boa with a respiratory infection many years ago, and the vet prescribed injections, (sorry I don't recall what it was), but he also suggested I boost the temps a bit. Not drastically hot, but boosting them a bit. Boas are normally kept at around 91 degrees. So I took his advice and raised it to 96 degrees on the warm side and went from room temp to 85 on the cool side, and the snake was fine in less than 2 weeks.

At that point I relaxed the temps back to 91 warm side and room temp cool side. I never had another problem with her.

Corn snakes are kept cooler than that, but it still helps to boost temps a bit. I would suggest cool side around 80, and warm side around 88. Even if it doesn't help, it won't hurt.

And your temps should be 82-86 warm side, and around 71 to 75 cool side normally.

Respiratory infections can be transmitted from one snake to another. They can be transmitted by "You" if you handle a sick snake and then handle a unaffected snake. Many times respiratory infection are from too cool a climate. That is why I asked what your temps are.

The normal temps in the cages for these guys is 84-85 on the hot side and about 74-76 on the cool. Right now, they're in rubbermaids in order to isolate them from the healthy snakes and form each other. I've upped their temps to 88 hot side with an overall ambient temp of 81.

I've been washing hands between handling either Anna or Wes and the healthy snakes.

I know I didn't isolate Anna soon enough and I feel awful for Wes due to that. I didn't isolate Anna until the two week course of Baytril was done and I realized it wasn't going to be an easy fix. But though she wasn't isolated, I didn't handle her and then another snake without washing my hands.

The enclosure that Anna and Wes were in was one long 4 foot PVC enclosure with a divider in the middle. So there was probably some air flow between their enclosures, moreso than the other snakes.

But Anna has been looking really good the last few days. Mouth completely closed and breathing normal save an occasional click. She is very back and forth in her symptoms. Will seem perfect for several days, then suddenly back to open mouth breathing. That's the part I really don't get! And eating great the whole time. She's hungry and very active right now. She never gets worse but just stays the same.

Wes seems worse that Anna ever was just for the throat swelling and the mucus build up in her mouth. So far, the Fortaz isn't having any more affect on Wes than it did on Anna. We'll just have to continue on, the vet emailed to say she would call me to discuss next steps tomorrow.

I really hope it isn't viral.

"Open Mouth Breathing" can also be a sign of overheating. If the mucous is gone and her symptoms are better, than it may be better to relax the temps back to normal.

That is true, I hadn't really thought of it.

Thanks, I will try taking the temps for Anna down and keep a close eye on her. I've been scared that lowering them will take us back to square one.

Just thought I'd stop in with a quick update. Which is mostly that things haven't changed at all.

Wes has been put on a long course of Fortaz injections on the advice of a specialist who said it could take as long as a 90 day course. We are currently at about 5 weeks of injections. I thought she was getting better but the last two weeks she has been VERY restless. Moving all over her enclosure, shoving everything around, and constantly pushing at the walls of the tub. I tried feeding her but she wasn't interested. The swelling in her throat went down a bit for a few days but then it comes and goes. Tonight, when I got home from work and checked on her, her throat is very swollen again, the worst I've seen it. She was slower tonight than she has been previously.

As for Anna, she hasn't had any medications for over a month now. She is still active, alert and eating. But she also still constantly has her mouth a little open and I can still hear the slight clicking when she breathes. I took her back into the vet to run some tests since the vet spoke with a specialist at the IDEXX lab where the tests are sent and they think the fact Anna was on anti-biotics before the other cultures would account for the lack of growth.

We did three tests. We did a fluid cytology on the fluid from her lungs obtained by tracheal wash. It came back normal. We did a culture and sensitivity (aerobic and anaerobic) and that came back, once again, with no growth. We did a fungal culture which I am still waiting on final results for but so far, normal.

One of my other rat snakes, a 5 year old named Hawk, passed away. She showed no symptoms that I had noticed. I found her dead in her enclosure, just two days after she had eagerly eaten a mouse. Unfortunately, I was unable to get her into the clinic for a post-mortem exam as we had just started the long weekend and no one was available.

My question now is...could a viral infection stay dormant in a snake for several years? My most recent snake had been Hawk, who I got four years ago at the big Mississauga expo. The last before her would have been a good six years ago. I do not handle other peoples snakes and I haven't been to any reptile expo since the one four years ago.

I have disinfected everything in every enclosure and taken out all the aspen to replace it with paper towel so I can keep a better eye on all the snakes for potential symptoms.

The next step will be to do fecal tests and bloodwork.