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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Questioning the strawberry gene
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:08 AM   #21
snakepunk
I don't think comparing a strawberry to a red-factor amel, especially one that's from a bloodred parent, is a good comparison. Not to go off in another direction, but I also think bloodreds (NOT just diffused) are homozygous for redcoat, another seemingly dominant gene, as well. Not to mention the potential problems using one from ultra lines...

Some strawberries/red-factors may also be hypo-a's in addition to being het or hom for redcoat as well. This would give us several different phenotypes, which is what we are seeing.

Initially, what led me wonder about all this was the following observations (both in my own animals and those I've seen in other's pics online and in live animals at shows):

#1. Strawberry anerys that looked NOTHING like the pink salmon anerys. I know selective breeding is often attributed, but there should at least be some variation in a clutch (not accounting for sexual dimorphism). I've seen several unrealted clutches from different breeders where all the resulting "strawberry" anerys just look like typical ghost. My assumption is that strawberry stock was simply a misidentified Hypo-A mutant.

#2. F1's that are pink from outcrossed pink animals. Take a NICE salmon snow/ghost and breed it to run-of-the mill anery and see if you don't get 50% pink anerys. I challenge anyone to try this.

And most importantly, #3. Anerys with a pink background, not ghosts, but anerys with black saddles. IF strawberry is a form of hypomelanism, than the saddles would be a tan/brown color like other ghost and phantoms.

Again I could be COMPLETELY wrong about all this, but sometimes I do think it is wise to go back and re-test our theories and to question what we think we know.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 11:20 AM   #22
crotalis40741
I guess I should have posted the rf normal hatchling first but even in that pic you can see a big difference in the two. There are different forms of redcoat/redfactor and I am not convinced that redcoat is dominant. The cherry line of redfactor I am working with seems to be dominant for I am seeing offspring in F1. As for the whole "ultra" thing. I would say that in this day and time it would be hard to find "pure" corns in anyones collection.
All diffused being homo redcoat? I don't see this either. I have them of both redfactor and non redfactor here from different lines.
Here is a pic of my redfactor male Ochre, is he homo or het diffused?
As far as the salmon snow x anery, if the anery is het hypo and the salmon did have strawberry in the gene makeup you would get some pink animals from the hypo/strawberry combo.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 11:30 AM   #23
ghosthousecorns
The "red" stuff in my collection is apparently able to be inherited from just one parent - Certain offspring from certain parents have turned out to be either really red hypos or if normals, get a red wash to their belly and look much different from "normal-normals" There is one female that I suspected to be "red factor" that had a clutch with red hypos and a hypo cinder that is really red. The same male I paired with her did not produce the same results with other females. Then my lavender female ended up having a couple of hypo babies that are really red as well. leading me to suspect that I have 2 females that have a dominant red factor they are passing down. I never really Wanted to work with red factor or sought out animals with the trait (I kind of dislike pink ghosts) but it's in my collection just the same.
I totally buy that there is both - a dominant gene (that might be what made those old school bloodreds so deep red as well as putting a layer of red onto other morphs it touches) , and a completely different, recessive, hypo compatible gene that makes them red. hypo is 4 letter word, lol
 
Old 01-01-2013, 01:17 PM   #24
dave partington
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimGERcream View Post
great thread. I also have my doubts with the whole strawberry thing. meanwhile there are tons of breeders who started projects with JMGs corals and all label these babys as het strawberrys (JMG coral ghost = strawberry anery, does anyone ever proved that??),
BINGO.
There is no strawberry gene in the JMG line CG/SS.
Of course breeding JMG line to strawberry gene produces strawberry stuff.
I suspect someone presented an assumption as a fact and then others procreated the myth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepunk View Post

#2. F1's that are pink from outcrossed pink animals. Take a NICE salmon snow/ghost and breed it to run-of-the mill anery and see if you don't get 50% pink anerys. I challenge anyone to try this.
I get around 35% which color up well after 3-15 months.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 01:23 PM   #25
snakepunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by crotalis40741 View Post
As for the whole "ultra" thing. I would say that in this day and time it would be hard to find "pure" corns in anyones collection.
I totally agree. But you can usually tell the difference between an Ultramel Anery and a ghost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crotalis40741 View Post
All diffused being homo redcoat? I don't see this either. I have them of both redfactor and non redfactor here from different lines.
I wasn't stating that diffused were homo redcoat, but bloodreds are. I make a distinction between the two and am of the conviction that "true bloods" are a combination of diffused, redcoat, masque (another dominant trait), and possibly one or two other traits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crotalis40741 View Post
Here is a pic of my redfactor male Ochre, is he homo or het diffused?
He is really cool, but he LOOKS more like a redcoat sunglow to me. He has more of a distinct head pattern than what I am used to seeing on fires (amel bloodreds). Do you have a belly shot of him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crotalis40741 View Post
As far as the salmon snow x anery, if the anery is het hypo. and the salmon did have strawberry in the gene makeup you would get some pink animals from the hypo/strawberry combo.
Yes, but you could always use an anery that isn't het Hypo.

At any rate it's a fun discussion. Needless to say, I've got plenty of projects to keep me busy the next several years, but I'm cool with that.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 01:27 PM   #26
crotalis40741
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakepunk View Post
I totally agree. But you can usually tell the difference between an Ultramel Anery and a ghost.


I wasn't stating that diffused were homo redcoat, but bloodreds are. I make a distinction between the two and am of the conviction that "true bloods" are a combination of diffused, redcoat, masque (another dominant trait), and possibly one or two other traits.


He is really cool, but he LOOKS more like a redcoat sunglow to me. He has more of a distinct head pattern than what I am used to seeing on fires (amel bloodreds). Do you have a belly shot of him?


Yes, but you could always use an anery that isn't het Hypo.

At any rate it's a fun discussion. Needless to say, I've got plenty of projects to keep me busy the next several years, but I'm cool with that.

Yes it is a fun talk, here is the best belly shot I have of him.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 01:57 PM   #27
dave partington
another wrench to toss in the gears.
A few of these ("byproduct") popped up in the F2 gen from
Dark red oldschool bloodred diffused X JMG coral ghost 66% het amel.
Photo taken in indirect outdoor natural lighting. No flash. In the last couple of sheds, some of these have developed a few white splotches on their dorsal scales. Some kind of hypo-somethings, no name for them yet.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 01:58 PM   #28
crotalis40741
Great looking snake Dave
 
Old 01-01-2013, 02:00 PM   #29
dave partington
Quote:
Originally Posted by crotalis40741 View Post
Great looking snake Dave
You've got some purdy sweet fishing lures yourself there Mister Bob.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 02:10 PM   #30
crotalis40741
I know folks have said that the different genes of redcoat/redfactor don't play well together but I would still like to put Ochre over a cayene fire and see what happens. Next season his daughter should be big enough to breed back to him to get the gene I have here in f2.
Thank you Dave
 

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