Tri-Color Hognose

Yay for seeing Zee again! I forgot all about that video. Poor little burrowing snake stuck in a tree, no wonder he was trying to tunnel down once he got his nose to the ground. He's a great looking snake. I've always like the Tri's that have that motley patterning with the white spot. I hope one day we can get our hands one some Tri "motleys" like that. I wonder if it's an inheritable trait, wouldn't that be cool?

Check out this thread- this was one of the most suspenseful days ever!!

http://tinyurl.com/da2hb3

Yeah, that was a very cool story. Doesn't Jenea still have those twins as part of her collection?

Yep she does. They are just too cute... and how neat that they are identicle twins! I've never heard of identical twin snakes hatching from the same egg before, just fraternal.

As much as I love Sherry, I really did Berry's pale colors. Is there sexual dimorphism among pastel westerns? Ooooh... and I'm absolutely in love with those axanthics Troy! Sooooooooo freaking cute!

Originally Posted by Jynx

As much as I love Sherry, I really did Berry's pale colors. Is there sexual dimorphism among pastel westerns? Ooooh... and I'm absolutely in love with those axanthics Troy! Sooooooooo freaking cute!

I don't believe there is any sexual dimorphism at all. I've seen pictures of other PPA (Pink Pastel Albino) female hogs that too had that washed out appearance. Originally, I thought that perhaps Sherry had some Hypo in her. If you look here at Casey Laziks Hypos, that's what she looked more like to me. And considering Casey was selling Hets that were PPA and Hypo, it was an easy assumption to make. But the breeder whom I purchased both Sherry and Berry told me that he didn't believe they had any Hypo inheritance at all. So, who knows.

And now there is also debate whether the so-called Hypos are even Hypos but perhaps another form of Albino considering that they do not have any melanin apparent anywhere. But that's another topic for another day.

Since we are on the topic of Pink Pastels though, you "forced" me to bust out my camera and take some much needed updated pictures and with both of them together! So, here you go:





I think you can figure out which one is which

Next I'll hafta take some pics of the Axanthics together, but I just fed Athena last night and don't want to disturb her right now. But updated pictures are definitely needed anyways as are a lot of pictures are needed for my desperately lacking web site.

The Axanthics, especially Athena, have been a very interesting roller coaster ride as you can tell from my thread here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62310

Athena has since darkened up a bit from when those pictures were taken. We were half expecting her to keep lightening up or at least keep that level of whiteness to her which I really really really liked. But she may yet change again, who knows! Now if I can just produce a Snow...

Gorgeous babies! I love their colors. Is a PPA just another form of Albino, or is it a combo morph? Oh and those Hypos are SUH-WEEEEEET! What do Hypos normally go for ($-wise). I can definitely see myself with one of those. And those wee-axanthics are absolutely to die for Troy. I love contrasty colors

Originally Posted by Jynx

Gorgeous babies! I love their colors. Is a PPA just another form of Albino, or is it a combo morph?

The PPA's are just another form of Albino interestingly. The way they are, you'd swear they were a combo, I know I originally thought so.

So far, the only two combos that I know of or can think of off hand are the Snows (Albino + Axanthic) and the Hybinos (Albino + Hypo). From what I've seen of the Hybinos, and it's only been from pictures, is that they are really not all that different, if at all, from other Albinos that I've seen. But see, like I said earlier, the whole tag of Hypo is now coming into question whether they are truly a Hypo at all. They are probably more like another form of Albino like the T+ Albinos. Of course, I don't know if there's any way other than genetic testing to totally be sure if that be the case or not. However, the "Hypos" are still very different than the typical Albinos.

Oh and those Hypos are SUH-WEEEEEET! What do Hypos normally go for ($-wise). I can definitely see myself with one of those. And those wee-axanthics are absolutely to die for Troy. I love contrasty colors

Yeah, when I first saw pictures of Casey's Hypos, I knew I had to have one. Unfortunately, they are actually quite hard to find, I think even harder than the Axanthics. I was able to procure 2 Axanthics from 2 different breeders a whole year+ before I was able to get some "Hypos".

But since you asked, I'm gonna go ahead and freak you out with the semi-current prices of most of the different western hogs (male babies of course to kinda help set the current prices) and morphs.

Normal: $50-$100 (Normals range from the typical brown/tan type specimens to greens, reds and even blonds. Prices usually are higher for the reds).

Albino: $300-$500 (Prices keep falling on these. Some albino specimens can exhibit more red which can cause prices to rise).

"Hypo": $1200

Pink Pastel Albino: $1200-$1500 (The typical price usually seems to be $1200, but due to their scarcity, I've seen prices going up to $1500 recently).

Extreme Red Albino: $1000-$1500 (These tend to range in price due to the intensity of red, obviously, more red, higher price).

Hybino: $1500-$2000? (The last time I saw one for sale, I want to say the price had come down this year from what I remembered it being at last year in the neighborhood of something like $2000. I know it wasn't cheap, that's for sure).

Anaconda (Co-Dom het for Anaconda): $3000-$3500 (The original price of these in 2008 was $3500 which was the first time they were being sold to the public. Brent, who was the originator of this line, informed me that the 2009 prices were dropping to $3000).

Axanthic: $3000-$4000 (These have definitely dropped a lot since we originally purchased our pair which we paid $4000 each. With the proliferation of several different breeders now, the market has become a lot more competitive and prices can be found in the $3000 if you know who to go to).

Patternless (Super form of Anaconda): $7500 (Brent, who produced the Anacondas, has informed me that he possibly might start selling some of his Patternless this coming year. Actually though, while I'm listing prices for males, his males are a lot more expensive in which he'll be selling the females for only $6000).

Snows: NA (Of the 4-6 Snows that now possibly exist, of which I know of 2 that belong to BHB and 2 that belong to Vin Russo, supposedly, as rumor has it, some anonymous person has another. Brian (BHB) has told me that he was offered $7500 for one of his snows but refused the offer. Vin told me that he was not parting with any of his for under $10,000).

While there are several other morphs out there, some well known and some others not so well know, that's kind of the basic gist of hognose morphs. Scary isn't it?

Here's some of what you have to look forward to with upcoming morphs over the next few years:

Ghost (Axanthic + Hypo)
Anacondas (Albino, Hypo, PPA, Axanthic, Snows, etc.)
Patternless (Albino, Hypo, PPA, Axanthic, Snows, etc.)

There's also several different patterned hogs that have yet to be successfully proven out, but if they are, then that'll just add to the insanity!

See what happens when you get me talking hognose?

Good lord... Its the Ball Python craze all over again! Your collection must've set you back quite a pretty penny! To be honest, I'd have to say that my favorite Western morph are the axanthics. For some reason, I love black andwhite chunky snakes. I'm the same with Kenyans... I actually don't like Snow or Albino Kenyans at all. Give me contrast any day!

So does anyone have a Snow that isn't A new hatchling? It would be interesting to see what they look like once they are mature.

Another question... is the Extreme Red Albino also a different form of Albino, or is it just a selectively bred variation? Its a shame that they are still new morphs. I absolutely hate seeing inflation that high, especially when there is a $1000 difference between an Albino and one with just a bit more red. But, thats the way the industry works. Like I said... its the BP craze again. Remember when just regular Spiders were $30,000+ and one breeder actually turned down an offer of $1,000,000 on a leucistic? Oye vey!

Jenea sent me pics of the male tonight, so I'll go post them in the Chit Chat section. The female is deep in shed though, so she wanted to wait a bit. I'm in no hurry though... I'd like to wait until at least late Feb before she sends these guys out. Its still pretty chilly!

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78408

Originally Posted by Jynx

Good lord... Its the Ball Python craze all over again!

Yeah, it seems to be that way. Now if only it takes off like the BP's have, then hopefully I can recoup some of my investment in the coming years.

Your collection must've set you back quite a pretty penny!

I'd really rather not talk about it!

To be honest, I'd have to say that my favorite Western morph are the axanthics. For some reason, I love black and white chunky snakes.

I might be inclined to agree with you, but I have to admit, when Brian first sent me a picture of that Snow Hog, I was totally blown away. But if I had to simply choose amongst just the morphs we currently own, then I'd have to pick the Axanthics too.

Give me contrast any day!

Well, being that I'm colorblind, I too would have to agree with this. Most of the BP morphs, I just can't tell a damn bit of difference between what some breeders claim versus what a normal is. Geez, I've even seen arguments amongst breeders about what is what. So at least in that aspect, I know I'm not totally alone.

So does anyone have a Snow that isn't a new hatchling? It would be interesting to see what they look like once they are mature.

Well, Brian's (BHB) were hatched in 2007, so they gotta be pretty good size by now. Vin Russo's were hatched in 2008, so they are probably still small. I too am very curious what progressions they might go through. Will their colors hold fast, or will they fade out or will other colors like yellow start to fade in? I would love to see what Brian's look like, but I don't have contact with him anymore to bother asking.

Another question... is the Extreme Red Albino also a different form of Albino, or is it just a selectively bred variation?

It's a selectively bred variation which, arguably, was proved out by Justin Mitcham. From my understanding, he purchased his breeding pair from another breeder who supposedly didn't realize what exactly he had with that pair until after they were sold and Justin introduced his "Extreme Red Albinos". While there others that claim to breed these, I honestly can't say that they are as red as Justin's.

Its a shame that they are still new morphs. I absolutely hate seeing inflation that high, especially when there is a $1000 difference between an Albino and one with just a bit more red. But, thats the way the industry works.

I totally concur, but like you realize, it's just the way it is. Supply and demand. However, I can fully appreciate why prices can be high for such animals. Brian told me that it cost him quite a bit of money and going through several different Axanthic WC hogs over several years before eventually getting one to reproduce. I don't recall exactly what he told me he initially paid for his, but I believe it was quite a chunk of change.

Like I said... its the BP craze again. Remember when just regular Spiders were $30,000+ and one breeder actually turned down an offer of $1,000,000 on a leucistic? Oye vey!

Well, I really hope that Hognose do catch on. Not just because I now have a heavily invested interest in them, but I find them totally fascinating and wonderful snakes. We didn't just start out buying all these morphs, we got totally hooked on the pair of normals we originally had and then my wife saw the Pink Pastels and that was pretty much it, we dug our hole, so to speak!

But yeah, it's insane what initial prices of any rare animal can be. And unfortunately, there's no guarantee that even after you invest that kind of money, that the animal will even breed, prove out or even survive. That's probably why they do keep such ridiculously high prices for a while, because so many people have invested in animals that were monetary losses for them, not including all the time and care that went into those types of projects. I already know the tragic losses and setbacks of such projects. But that's also the excitement of it. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it.

Jenea sent me pics of the male tonight, so I'll go post them in the Chit Chat section.

Awesome! I can't wait to see some more pics of him. Jenea has a lot of very nice Tri-Colors. You did well by going with her!

The female is deep in shed though, so she wanted to wait a bit. I'm in no hurry though... I'd like to wait until at least late Feb before she sends these guys out. Its still pretty chilly!

I know that all too well. I too am currently waiting for another Hypo Hog that I paid for several weeks ago that the breeder is holding onto for me because it just isn't getting out of the 20's and 30's here. But I'd rather him be safe and warm than becoming a little popsicle by the time I get him.

Again, congrats on your upcoming little worms. I know you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of them.

I saw a short video clip of a snow hog at BHB, and I was like WOW.
Then the price flashed on the screen and I was nauseous. Maybe in 10 years.