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Health Issues/Feeding Problems Anything related to general or specific health problems. Issues having to do with feeding problems or tips.

3 year old corn died and I feel terrible
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:48 AM   #21
JRLongton
Don't beat yourself up

One thing I have learned is that snake keeping is a practice. So much of it is circumstantial and we beginners can have difficulty determining what factors to consider. The experts suggest one thing, but we quickly find that it doesn't work for us and our snake. We experiment, we make mistakes, we correct (quickly), we learn. It's a practice.

To the OP, don't beat yourself up. If you successfully kept Steve for three years, and this onset was really so sudden, I have a hard time believing that you did anything wrong. Keeping Corn Snakes isn't rocket science, and they're pretty hardy little guys. It could have been (and likely was) so many things not related to your care. The only practical thing to do is grieve your loss and move on in your own time.

Best Regards.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 05:13 PM   #22
Karl_Mcknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRLongton View Post
One thing I have learned is that snake keeping is a practice. So much of it is circumstantial and we beginners can have difficulty determining what factors to consider. The experts suggest one thing, but we quickly find that it doesn't work for us and our snake. We experiment, we make mistakes, we correct (quickly), we learn. It's a practice.
Hmmmm....... interesting.

I wish you'd elaborate and share. I've not run across anything the Experts suggested that didn't work for any of my snakes. When I was raising a Boa, I bought a book about Boas. When I had the King Snake, I got a book on King Snakes, and now with the Corn Snake, well, I've already listed the 2 best books for corn snakes (above).

If there is something that "Does not work" we need to know.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 07:20 PM   #23
DLena
Great books. I have them. DollysMom, you are a wonderful, caring lady.
Lucyjane, I just saw this thread. I am so sorry your pet died. I've been there, I know how it feels.
I've never seen what you described, but could any toxins have gotten into Steve's water or bedding?
If all the husbandry stayed the same, then I'd logically think it was something genetic, a sudden illness, or something different in his environment... pesticides, bug tape, leaning products, air fresheners,...
 
Old 10-11-2017, 10:06 PM   #24
JRLongton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl_Mcknight View Post
Hmmmm....... interesting.

I wish you'd elaborate and share. I've not run across anything the Experts suggested that didn't work for any of my snakes. When I was raising a Boa, I bought a book about Boas. When I had the King Snake, I got a book on King Snakes, and now with the Corn Snake, well, I've already listed the 2 best books for corn snakes (above).

If there is something that "Does not work" we need to know.

Sure, let's take the issue of substrate. I was advised to get aspen. Personally I love shredded aspen, it's aesthetically pleasing, easy to spot clean, absorbs odors well, is easily obtained, and cheap. Problem is its often dusty and makes my corn "sneeze". I asked for advice on something else, was told eco-earth. Gave it a try, it drove the humidity in the terrarium up to 92%. Way to high. Took it out dried it and found it far more dusty than any brand of aspen I had ever bought. Was told cypress bark, tried it, humidity just as bad as Eco-earth. Now my corn's on paper towel. Humidity is good, but it looks pretty stark and bare and I'm looking to try something else.

I'm sure that shredded aspen works great for most corns, I'm sure that eco-earth is a great substrate for some people in some climates, and I'm sure that cypress bark is a god-send for some snake keepers. I had to experiment to find what works for me and my corn in my conditions. It's a practice.

I'm not saying "don't listen to experts". Their advice can point you in the right direction and save a lot of trouble. I'm thankful for all the help I've received, but advice needs to be coupled with rational judgement and observation. Had I just filled up the terrarium with eco-earth as suggested, and taken off on vacation, I'd have made a terrible mistake.

Can we get back to comforting the OP now?
 
Old 10-12-2017, 04:57 AM   #25
Karl_Mcknight
I can tell by your answer that you've never read either book that I mentioned above. And for the record, a lot of folks "Don't use Aspen" (myself included). The books explain "Many Substrates" to use.

I was not referring to the "Pet Store Experts or the Internet Experts." I was referring to the folks that were actually true experts. (The ones that Wrote the 2 books I suggested above). Everybody with a snake "Claims to be an expert." I'm certainly not gullible enough to believe them.
 
Old 10-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #26
Dragonling
Careful, Karl, you know I'm one of those Pet Store Experts™. (And yes, big box stores really do use "expert" to describe pet care employees, with all their minimal training. )

Welcome to cornsnakes.com, where the advice is made up and the topics don't matter.

You only mentioned shredded aspen, JRLongton, typically one of the few options available in pet stores, but certainly not the only one. Did you try chipped or shaved aspen? These come in a variety of sizes, and different brands may have varying levels of dust, but honestly I've never found a dust-free dry substrate of any variety. Many keepers swear by Sani-Chip, and I've had great success using it.

I do find the controversy over pine particularly interesting. Neither book makes any mention of kiln dried vs. air dried, only to avoid it at all costs, yet we have many respected keepers in the hobby who have used kiln-dried pine flake for decades.
 
Old 10-12-2017, 09:53 AM   #27
DollysMom
There is more than one way to do things right. It varies from country to country and from online community to online community.

There are no perfect snakekeepers since there are no perfect people. I know in some quarters I’ve been lambasted up one side and down the other for feeding my corn snakes in a separate bin. I personally think in and out of bin both have their places. And if the snake is used to one and doing well there’s no need to switch.

There are some things that are generally accepted bad husbandry. Like not cleaning and not checking for complete shed. Over and underfeeding are on that list as well. As to temp there is a pretty wide acceptable range for the warm side with many of the top breeders favoring lower temps like Dragonling said.

We are constantly learning, all of us. Being overly judgemental in our responses is not helpful to people who come here trying to sort things out or who are trying to learn to do a better job. I know I shut down when faced with the drill sergeant approach. Some people do have cognitive issues and need some hand holding. I’m both sad and ashamed that the OP wasn’t treated more kindly, especially considering the sad circumstances.
 
Old 10-12-2017, 04:06 PM   #28
JRLongton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl_Mcknight View Post
I can tell by your answer that you've never read either book that I mentioned above. And for the record, a lot of folks "Don't use Aspen" (myself included). The books explain "Many Substrates" to use.
Good lord. I should let it go, but...

I own and have read both books you suggested several times over, and I refer to them often.

I'll point out that both suggest aspen as the best choice, with Bill and Cathy Love explicitly recommending shredded Aspen. The same authors also suggest cypress mulch as a good choice. Soderberg does not mention cypress but does suggest coconut husk as a safe substrate. Eco-earth, with which I had problems, is 100% coconut husk.

I can't imagine why you would think I haven't read their books since I followed their exact advice, even starting with the substrate they both agreed as the being the best, which you said you do not use. Presumably because you have your own issues with it, despite what those you accept as experts state.
 
Old 10-12-2017, 04:15 PM   #29
JRLongton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonling View Post
You only mentioned shredded aspen, JRLongton, typically one of the few options available in pet stores, but certainly not the only one. Did you try chipped or shaved aspen?
I also used Eco-Earth (coconut husk) and cypress mulch as they are recommended in the books by the Loves and Soderberg.

I just bought aspen chips today and poured them into the terrarium. MUCH less dust than shredded. I really like the way it flows as well, and it looks nice. I just put in in a few hours ago but so far it is holding temp and humidity the same as the shredded aspen did. Hopefully it'll work out well.

Thanks for the advice!

Best Regards
 
Old 10-13-2017, 05:37 PM   #30
LadyJemima
Chillllll everyone I have my own thoughts but don't want to fan the flames so I'll keep quiet. I think we can all agree that new snake owners OFTEN (not always) do not do adequate research, but that keeping a snake IS a learning experience in many ways.

OP, so sorry to hear about your snake's passing. Losing a pet is always sad and we often wonder if we could have saved them.
 

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