"Blued Steel" Pippies!

Guess I already posted that pic...doh!

Originally Posted by carol

Had the original animals been tested for Hypo A?

As you can see from Susan’s comparison photo of sibling Anery Motleys, Ghost Motleys and Blue Motleys they look very different.

I just heard back from Rob about the Blue Motley X Hypo Lav Breeding. The results were around a 50% split between Normals and Hypos, so the Blue was het Hypo.

Cool. It would be really neat to see this recovered in non anerys. Susan, have you found any of your Ghosts that seem that they may be both? I guess this is one situation where a Hypo could mask a dilute gene. I've always loved Grulla horses, now there is a Grulla snake!

Definitely seems heritable, but I think there's still more going on. I do like the idea of using the name "dilute" for the gene itself, if it proves out.

If "blue" is used for the gene, then we will be regularly fielding questions about why you don't get purples when the blue gene is expressed in a red snake.

However, the name "blue" for the anery/charcoal/lav versions would be on par with the way blue is applied all over the animal world so I agree on that and Joe will not need to fight with me over it.

Just a couple questions, I'm trying to catch up on this... hehe...

1- Has anyone proven a "blue" specimen to be not carrying hypo? I ask because it seems that every single example is het hypo, and they always come from clutches where the parents are het hypo. So the natural extension there is, "yeah, and hypo often seems to be mildly expressed when het, it's a weak codominant..."

2- Has anyone crossed blue X blue? If this is a simple recessive thing, there should be only blues, no anerys. If it produces anery/blue/ghost, then there is yet another case for "blue= het hypo."


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Also, if blues cannot be separated from the "het hypo" genotype, perhaps dilute is an allele to hypo, and the dilute gene is codominant to wild-type.

If that were true:
- the blues would be dilute/normal
- ghosts would be hypo/hypo, dilute/hypo, dilute/dilute
- similar to what happened with ultra, crossing it to anything carrying hypo would make it appear that the blue is het hypo and/or that the hypo is het blue.

... or, blue = anery/anery hypo/dilute.

In that instance,
anery/anery hypo/dilute X anery/anery hypo/hypo
(Blue X Ghost)

would produce:
anery/anery hypo/dilute (Blue)
anery/anery hypo/hypo (Ghost)

and no regular anerys.

That sounds really viable chuck! I like the idea of a hypo-linked dilution gene!

"2- Has anyone crossed blue X blue? If this is a simple recessive thing, there should be only blues, no anerys. If it produces anery/blue/ghost, then there is yet another case for "blue= het hypo.""

I think mvervest did that, as I read from the 'other' Silver Blue Ghost thread....

Originally Posted by Serpwidgets

Definitely seems heritable, but I think there's still more going on. I do like the idea of using the name "dilute" for the gene itself, if it proves out.

If "blue" is used for the gene, then we will be regularly fielding questions about why you don't get purples when the blue gene is expressed in a red snake.

However, the name "blue" for the anery/charcoal/lav versions would be on par with the way blue is applied all over the animal world so I agree on that and Joe will not need to fight with me over it.

Just a couple questions, I'm trying to catch up on this... hehe...

1- Has anyone proven a "blue" specimen to be not carrying hypo? I ask because it seems that every single example is het hypo, and they always come from clutches where the parents are het hypo. So the natural extension there is, "yeah, and hypo often seems to be mildly expressed when het, it's a weak codominant..."

2- Has anyone crossed blue X blue? If this is a simple recessive thing, there should be only blues, no anerys. If it produces anery/blue/ghost, then there is yet another case for "blue= het hypo."


-----

Also, if blues cannot be separated from the "het hypo" genotype, perhaps dilute is an allele to hypo, and the dilute gene is codominant to wild-type.

If that were true:
- the blues would be dilute/normal
- ghosts would be hypo/hypo, dilute/hypo, dilute/dilute
- similar to what happened with ultra, crossing it to anything carrying hypo would make it appear that the blue is het hypo and/or that the hypo is het blue.

You may be a genius after all, especially the part about not fighting over the Blue Motley trade name.

I never thought about the possibility of an allele to hypo. My first thought was that Robs first Test Breeding result this year, indicated that an allele was not likely, but when you factor in the “OR” factor of an allele, he may have chosen hets for Dilute OR Hypo.

If the allele situation is the correct one, then there will be three different phenotypes. Anery dilute/dilute. Anery hypo/hypo (Ghost) and Anery hypo/dilute. Marcs clutch produced 100% copies of the adults as far as we know, but everybody did not jump on the Blue Motley band wagon immediately either. When I found out he obtained them from Bayou Reptile, I made the connection, but Marcs adults do look a little different than mine.

Is this a case, of Serps “What if” hypo thread?, only more complicated?

I have something in my Lavenders, that is acting very much like a hypo gene, but more like a dilute gene. Now add Rich Z’s, hair pulling results with his Hypo Lavenders, and there seems to be a connection. An allele to hypo, in the Lavenders, would cause what Rich has been seeing. I happen to have a Lavender Line without the Hypo gene in it, so I did not see the same type of mixed up results.

I am not talking about the difference between the sexes. There is something else mixed in the Lavender Line too.

Originally Posted by Joe Pierce

I just heard back from Rob about the Blue Motley X Hypo Lav Breeding. The results were around a 50% split between Normals and Hypos, so the Blue was het Hypo.
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If blue is an allele to hypo, then it doesn't show in the normal form (which is weird, you'd think you could see some melanin reduction anyway) according to the above quote.

Too bad this wasn't x a ghost to see if you'd get half blues, half ghosts or half ghosts, half anerys.

Edit: Ah, I see, you're thinking it's only blue if it's the dilute allele in het form with normal. Then in the above cross those animals shouls be half normal and half "dilute" normals, not hypos. Anyone know how hypo were they? Sure wouldn't go along with the typical dilute genes, which are recessive in every other species, but possible.

Edit 2: Also doesn't go along with the Josh x Taylor cross making ~1/4 "blues" since neither of them were "blue" as hatchlings, nor was their grandfather. Their grandmother wasn't het hypo at all (and was tested for it). If the blue motleys end up proving out to that theory, then the kids from Josh x Taylor definitely are not.