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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity.

Aspen as a substrate = dangerous??
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:49 PM   #21
Jrgh17
Quote:
"So we need to see evidence for everything??"
Yes. It's fondly referred to as the scientific method.
 
Old 03-03-2007, 08:50 PM   #22
diamondlil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrgh17
Yes. It's fondly referred to as the scientific method.
 
Old 03-03-2007, 09:11 PM   #23
gigergal
I read this thread with interest. As a complete beginner to Herps, and corns in particular (have just bought two) I realise I'm lacking in so much knowledge despite doing what I thought was a thorough research before I bought them.

I'm interested in why Jrgh17 quoted this:

Quote:
Remove the prey item from the freezer and allow to defrost at room temperature. When defrosted, use forceps or tongs to pick up the rodent by the tail, and hold the prey in front of the snake for the snake to strike at.
How should one feed f/t meals to corns? This is the way I was told to do it by the breeder I bought them off.

gigergal
 
Old 03-03-2007, 09:36 PM   #24
Jrgh17
That quote is the one I felt least strongly about, as it only has one small thing. Some snakes won't accept a room-temperature mouse. I think it's safe to say that *most* people thaw their frozen mice using some sort of hot/warm water (as seen in the thread below).

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...use+water+warm
 
Old 03-03-2007, 09:58 PM   #25
tyflier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markey
Jenni, if her information is not sitting well with you then find another source to get information from.
I guess I don't get what the issue is.....
If you want to use Aspen, use it. I really think that the substrates that are considered safe are safe. It's really a personal preference.
As for taping eyes, I think that's insane......
As far as shedding goes, my snake always sheds within a few days after her eyes clear up. Just make sure your humidity levels are higher than normal and give your snake something rough but safe to scrape against. My snake loves to shed in the vines. She will also crawl through her moss piles....I love watching her shed!
Everyone has their own opinions as to how things are supposed to be done. I've seen two reptile vets who told me completely different things about my snake. You have to take the information, process it, and spit out the stuff that doesn't relate to you or that you don't agree with.
In the end, you want what is best for your snake and that's great. I've heard some really bad stories about some that don't.
I would find another person to read up on....just my opinion though and I'm a newbie to this site myself so I don't know much myself. I have had my corn for several years now and have found that I learned more just from owning the snake than from any reading I ever did. :0)
You missed the point. This topic is an effort to discuss the pros and cons of various substrate materials, especially of a particulate matter, as well as the possibility of injury and/or infection associatesd with different substrates. The referenced website by Michelle Kaplan makes alot of references that are qustionable at best, and flat wrong in other instances. It doesn't matter if someone with experience can see the difference. What matters is that this website is being used by people with NO IDEA about basic husbandry, and it is providing erroneous and opinionated ideas as fact. I think that is a VERY important thing to point out, especially in a topic of this nature, which many, many new owners are bound to read, just to get some more information.

With that being said...I'm a bit of a sicko, I think. I abhor the idea of my snakes pooing on me. It makes me nauseous just thinking about it. Yet, I know that my snakes usually defecate within 3 days of eating. So, on the third day after feeding, I take them out, and let them cruise on some newspaper until they go, before our handling sessions commence. The point is, I DO watch my snakes go...frequently. I paid particular attention to this after reading the last topic regarding this, as I was curious as to just how much of a snake's "insides" come out during defecation. I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that there is a risk of "sucking in" substrate materials during or after defecation. Yes, there is a tiny amount of the the vent which becomes exposed while the fecal material is being expelled. But the expulsion of the liquid and solid waste would seem to me to prevent any particulate substrate from attaching to the vent. As well, my snakes all crawl with theior tails high in the air after defecating, cleaning the outside of the cloacal area. To me it appears that the tail being raised lifts the cloacal opening off of the ground, and would further prevent substrate from sticking to the vent and being "sucked in". I just don't see HOW it could happen.

In the wild, I'm 100% POSITIVE that snakes do NOT go looking for newspaper, linoleum, papertowels, or cement to defecate. In fact, I am 100% CERTAIN that they take a dunmp wherever they feel like it, regardless of the substance they happen to be on. This means, wood, sticks, barks, beetles, ants, leaf litter, dirt, soil, sand, rock and all manner of other natural particulate matter is potentially killing thousands of wild snakes every day...right?
 
Old 03-03-2007, 10:23 PM   #26
Hypancistrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyflier
In the wild, I'm 100% POSITIVE that snakes do NOT go looking for newspaper, linoleum, papertowels, or cement to defecate. In fact, I am 100% CERTAIN that they take a dunmp wherever they feel like it, regardless of the substance they happen to be on. This means, wood, sticks, barks, beetles, ants, leaf litter, dirt, soil, sand, rock and all manner of other natural particulate matter is potentially killing thousands of wild snakes every day...right?
Perhaps they seek out a persons porch with nice cozy indoor-outdoor carpeting??

I should add that I am glad most folks seem to also think these folks are a bit "unhinged." I am still quite new to snakes and they had me feeling like I may as well just take my snake out and lop off his head if I am going to keep him on aspen...
 
Old 03-03-2007, 10:42 PM   #27
Jrgh17
I'm sorry, but I simply can not resist the opportunity to document this occasion in MS Paint.

 
Old 03-03-2007, 10:47 PM   #28
Hypancistrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrgh17
I'm sorry, but I simply can not resist the opportunity to document this occasion in MS Paint.

TOO FUNNY!!!!
 
Old 03-03-2007, 11:02 PM   #29
gigergal
Quote:
That quote is the one I felt least strongly about, as it only has one small thing. Some snakes won't accept a room-temperature mouse. I think it's safe to say that *most* people thaw their frozen mice using some sort of hot/warm water (as seen in the thread below).

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sh...ouse+water+warm
Thanks for the explanation and link

gigergal
 
Old 03-04-2007, 09:58 AM   #30
Hypancistrus
Quote:
Hypancistrus wrote:
Until I get more evidence to the contrary, I guess I just have to assume that this is a "threat" that is blown out of proportion a bit.
And this is the response I got.

Quote:
We've already been through this. There simply has not been studies done (because there is no funding for studies of this nature.)

Facts:

1) When reptiles defecate, cloacal tissue everts (for the sake of argument, I have witnessed this with my BP and my 3 bearded dragons... I do not have first hand observations of ALL reptiles.)

2) When this happens, small particles can STICK to the tissue. It is wet. Lick your fingertip and touch your aspen, you'll get the idea.

3) Since your snake is in an enclosure and not in the wild, they can not get OFF the substrate of your choice. (They can not move to an area with a different bedding.)

You can not convince me that there is no RISK that this will happen to your snake. Now - maybe it happens frequently with no negative effects, but IT WILL ONLY TAKE ONE TIME to do serious damage.

I drive with my seatbelt on, even though I have never hit anything with my car or been hit while driving.

The comparison to smoking was that everyone used to do it UNTIL studies were done which proved how bad it could be. The only argument for USING aspen is that "everyone uses it" - which is not a sound argument.

You need to give reasons FOR using it AND disprove the reasons AGAINST using it.

For the record - I too gave up aspen long ago and use turf.

BTW - there are MANY of us here who don't use aspen and use liner/carpet/turf which dismisses "EVERYONE uses aspen".
I don't buy any of this. Now we have three people at a lizard forum who say that this risk is akin to getting lung cancer from smoking, or getting into a car crash. And yet no one here, on a forum devoted to SNAKES has ever heard of a snake getting aspen stuck to its cloaca??

Aparently this individual aserts that snakes will move to areas of non-particulate substrate in the wild to do their business? Is it wrong that I just don't think my snake is that bright? As some people have said, they seem to put a lot less "thought" into where they poop than even a dog.

So now I need to provide reasons FOR using aspen to prove to them that I am correct, when they have not yet provided anything other than their personal assertions that this is a valid danger.
 

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