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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Kastanie/Mahogany/Golden/Rosy/Bell's Sunrise/Copper Cornundrum
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:11 PM   #1
dave partington
Kastanie/Mahogany/Golden/Rosy/Bell's Sunrise/Copper Cornundrum

I don't think they are "all the same thing". Others politely disagree.
I concede. There are many persons around who know more than me.
What are your thoughts and convictions and beliefs on this, based on personal breeding outcomes, or looking at pictures online, and other considerations I've not mentioned?
Is there a name for the overall -heavy_on_the_eyes- change of intense color graduation/change from head to tail- which they all express? "KaMoGoRoBeSuCo"? (just taking the first two letters of each in the title of the thread and creating a native American 'sounding' word here...

Thanks,
dp
 
Old 08-23-2014, 12:47 PM   #2
crackerhead
As with any gene identification I will reserve comment until: A. I can prove it out for myself, or B. A trustworthy second/third/fourth/etc. party, who understands genetics, offers detailed breeding trial notes. With none of that in hand, all comments or suppositions are mute.
You can debate the topic all day long and be no farther along than when you began. Without carefully planned and executed breeding trials it's akin to saying "Because I said so!" otherwise.

Terri
 
Old 08-23-2014, 02:11 PM   #3
dave partington
who understands genetics?

That was a rather good post.

What is the formula / what's the (scientific?) criteria for proving a gene?

When conducting breeding trials,
Is there a difference between visual F1 Dominant Trait,
and visual F1 Locality outcomes?

What is the "ideal" other parent when working to prove/disprove a new gene?
 
Old 08-23-2014, 08:57 PM   #4
LRDJ
You both have great points.......AND I have to AGREE. More breeding trials are needed.

I also agree with Dave that Copper and Kastanie are totally different. You probably need to have them side by side to note the difference. Similar color....probably, but the degree of saturation is different.

Copper Yearling - from a Copper to Copper breeding...



Kastanie Yearling......




As far as Kastanie and Java......next year I will put my pair together and I believe Don will be doing the same thing.

The difficult part is when Mandarin (Amel Kastanie), Tangerine (Amel Java) and Amel Sunrise are in the equation. A few variables eg., depigmentation as they mature and color saturation. I still think Amel Sunrise and Mandarin are different but this is solely on the degree of phenotypic variation. Deeper coloration and depigmentation in the Amel Sunrise when compare to Mandarin.

Here is a picture of a Tangerine Stripe (Amel Java). If you look at the snake the degree of depigmentation is remarkably similar to what you will see in an Amel Sunrise. I hope to find out by breeding trails.





As far as Mahogany and Kastanie.......they do look similar in every aspect of it. Hope Steve Roylance and the other Gurus find out.

Looking forward to seeing other members to JOIN and elaborate on this lovely and rewarding KastacojamanTaniBell mess.....

I am not an expert on this matter but I am more than happy to learn from others....

I am just a Kastanie freak
 
Old 08-24-2014, 12:22 AM   #5
Chromatic Corns
I have a pair of Mahogany but since I do not have any kastanie for comparison I am eagerly waiting on Steve Roylance to breed his mahogany to his kastanie. There are differences even between my pair though. Male has a red wash to his belly and his coloring is darker. The female has a beautiful white belly with all black checkers. Her white creeps just slightly up her sides, not like pied though. I'll try to get pics of that tomorrow.
(mostly I replied so I could follow )
 
Old 08-24-2014, 07:54 AM   #6
steve roylance
Kastanie X Mahogany has been started. We'll see the results in a few months.
 
Old 08-24-2014, 08:06 AM   #7
steve roylance
Just to add a little of my opinion, I believe they all might look different because they are all from different locations. If I were to go to Sarasota FL and catch a Corn snake then go to Ft Myers FL and catch another one they will look "Different". Even though they look different they also look the same to me. I also believe if it wasn't the same gene we should be getting "Normals" when breeding them together. Yes there is also the chance they are Allelic.

Again these are just my thoughts. Not saying I'm right or wrong. I also agree with everything stated so far
 
Old 08-25-2014, 06:34 PM   #8
Chromatic Corns
Here are the pics I took today of my pair. These are F2s
Together, the female is at the top
Name:  mahog1.jpg
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Female
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Female belly, can't see the end but there is no red wash. The nice black and white continues all the way to tip
Name:  mahog3.jpg
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Male belly, he gets the red wash at end of belly into tail
Name:  mahog4.jpg
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Male
Name:  mahog5.jpg
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:36 PM   #9
Chromatic Corns
Here are 2 more comparison shots

side view, see how more visible her white is
Name:  mahog6.jpg
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female is going up the middle between male's head and tail
Name:  mahog7.jpg
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:32 AM   #10
chris68


Kastanie X Copper
 

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