Baby Corn Snake Won't Constrict

I have a baby corn snake that will not constrict. Her last shed was about 14.5 inches long.

I have a 2 foot Rosy Boa as well. The Rosy Boa is most likely a wild caught snake as it is indigenous to my area. It slithered up to some construction worker and hung out with him all day, causing him to worry the Rosy was a released captive snake, so he took it to PetCo where I then volunteered to take it. The people at PetCo said they tried for several days to feed it f/t but it was uninterested even though she was obviously malnourished. A PetCo worker stopped by a pet store to bring it a live fuzzy the same day I discovered the Boa, but the other workers were upset after passing it around in the bag and didn't want to feed it. So they tried again that day to feed f/t one more time and the story goes, they dangled the f/t around for 20 min and then left it in the cage for most of the day. Factions formed. The only male worker there (who bought the fuzzy) and one female worker said the snake needs to eat!! The rest of the staff said no. So the guy and the girl worker, snuck the fuzzy out of a tissue box in the back the other workers made for it under a heat lamp.. and then offered it to the Boa. They both said not even a second went by as the fuzzy landed about 4-5 inches from the Rosy, she struck and rolled around all over the cage throwing coils over coils. There was a big drama going on as I arrived to get some crickets, and decided I needed to take that snake away from there. They guy was happy to box the Rosy up and send it away for free.

So I've been feeding live very successfully for about a month when my girlfriend decided she wanted a baby snake of her own. She got a little tan ghost striped corn. However, this snake will not coil. I've been reading on the issue and there doesn't seem to be any consensus as to why. I keep coming to,
1) the snake knows the pinky is not a threat
2) It will start constricting when it gets older
3) it lost it's constricting instinct though generations of C/B and f/t and may never learn to constrict even when it's older,
and
4) why would you want to feed live anyways?!

The most frustrating answer is the last. One, it is not an answer at all. Two, for Gods sake people, we own snakes. They are predators that have killed their meals for over 60 million years as a requirement to survive. Just because you put them behind glass and you have an over inflated sense of anthropomorphism doesn't make live feeding cruel. You act like we own hamsters, and even they will rip apart an insect. I don't want to go there. Leave the live vs F/T argument alone or don't comment... seriously move on now if you are thinking about trolling this thread with it. I am sure there are 100,000 threads where you can express your opinions on that issue, it is not welcome here in my question.

I am interested in why my corn will not coil. I've tried pulling the feeder away from it immediately after the strike, wiggling it, tickling the corn with forceps while it's eating. I gave her a hell of a time last feeding, almost to the point where I though she might see ME as a threat. She didn't even attempt to coil. She also doesn't seem to strike very well either. She will just grab whatever she lands on and try to swallow the mouse tail first or even if it's dead center on the pinky's side.

As to some of the answers I've read, does she maybe think she isn't strong enough to coil? My boa holds onto my hands and fingers like an anchor and can extend it's entire body straight like a stick, while the corn feels like a feather, and if more than half her body is off my hand she can't lift herself up, she will try to go backup, give up, and then drop to whatever is lower. Is it strength?

I do tend to agree with the theory that changing wild animal behavior over several generations does affect permanent changes (positive or negative). If you feed a wild bear they get used to humans, why wouldn't feeding dead food over several generations affect it's feeding response?
Could the captive breeding and f/t food over time degrade it's natural instincts? It makes me worry when people say it will not constrict a pinky but will constrict a fuzzy, I don't want to find out they are wrong with a badass mouse and then have to do an emergency cervical dislocation while she is holding onto the side or butt of a nippy fuzzy. I'd rather switch to f/t than risk that situation. (again keep your f/t opinions to the topic of breeding/instincts)

There are already a few threads out there with this question and a whole bunch of guesses. I am hoping someone can confidently say with real factual information or long term experience in the matter what is going on here.

I'd prefer to feed both snakes live since my Boa will not touch f/t and I simply do not want to go through the steps of converting a stubborn snake. Since I've decided to feed live I plan to only go as high as fuzzies, and then fuzzy rats, maybe stunned pups when she is grown since they will have a hard/impossible time landing any kind of dangerous bite on her accomplished strike and coil. But the corn snake worries me, I am not against feeding f/t to the corn since she is, as of now, dysfunctional, but I would just really like to see both snakes acting like snakes and would prefer to feed them both the same way.
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Only for f/t trolls:
Forums are here for help and advice. If a subject is not wanted please leave it alone. It really is a shame people cannot expect direct answers to questions without someone injecting their unwanted personal opinions; forcing the thread into a moral debate. If you really cannot help yourself from trolling this thread with information I've asked you not to share. Maybe my complete perspective will dissuade your response. I will ignore anything further on the subject.

I have absolutely no reservation or remorse feeding live, it is nature for both snake and food, so please do not try to convert me. I already look down on, with extreme prejudice, those who think snakes exist upon the concept of deviant animal cruelty. We cannot take the life and experiences of animals and elevate it to a human level. Yes it is natural for us to feel bad when a lions rip out the stomach of a baby buffalo and eat it while it's still alive, alligators dragging around wildebeests by their broken legs, and spiders/scorpions consuming paralyzed lizards/prey. But this is essential for all life on this earth. Survival of the fittest is extremely important for both wild and captive animals (less so for captive but still important). Aside from most domesticated animals like house cats and dogs, humans are the only animals that no longer partake in this necessity due to technology. And there is an entire crate of worms to open in terms of disease and medicine we cause in our species for it. In the wild, weak snakes don't survive and they shouldn't in captivity if you plan to breed them. The creatures lower on the food chain are exactly that, food. Since I am never planning to breed this corn snake, I don't care what goes on in it's captivity. But I do think we should limit, as much as we can, what is changed by captivity, on breeding animals. This opinion, my opinion, forged with a biology degree, will never be changed, ever. Trying is fruitless. Hopefully that staves off any unwanted attempts. Apologies to all for the upfront defensiveness.

Wow. That's a lot of text there. I did skim over bits of it, but I have a few comments/suggestions I thought I'd leave for you.

1. I doubt if the feeding response to live has been bred out like you mention as a possibility. Afaik most breeders start hatchlings of many species on live out of convenience and to ensure they all start eating before too long. If it were being hired out, F/T would be more notorious than it is for causing problem feeders outside of ball pythons. Most corn snakes take frozen enthusiastically and most who feed live say there's a stronger response to that than frozen.

2. My corn was similar as a very young hatchling. His first 2 to 3 meals with me were basically grab and swallow. After that I guess he figured out how to wrap. (I've never fed my corn live, so he learned and started wrapping prey entirely on frozen)

3. The lack of body strength is almost definitely because your corn is a baby. Young snakes aren't used to how to move and have worse balance due to age. Like how human toddlers can walk but are still wobbly. That and the strength to support its body will improve with age and size unless there's a serious medical issue involved. Until it hits 30+ grams, it's probably just from young age.

4. If you want to entice your corn to wrap, the best advice I've seen isn't related to what you do after the cornsnake strikes like tapping it or shaking the mouse. Rather, catch its attention prior to the strike. Wiggle the mouse or tap the ground near the entrance to the hide and wait till you see a head pop out or show interest. Don't leave the mouse there, as the snake comes toward the entrance and out keep backing the mouse away. Instead of striking from right in front of its nose, let it strike a few inches away after following it several inches away from the hide. This has always gotten me a much more enthusiastic wrap/coil on the prey. Unless your corn is super shy and wont peek out of the hide for food, this is the best thing to try and get a wrap. (Note that this will pretty much not work on live prey after you get over fuzzy mice. It'd be tough to keep a hold and a bit cruel to pinch as tightly onto an older mouse like you would need to in order to keep a grip. It is going to be food, but there's no need to cause it extra pain. By then, it moving around should be enticement enough anyway.)


Want to put out that I don't have anything against feeding live if it works for you and your snake. I have 1 ball python i got as an adult who has refused anything but live so far. I'm trying to switch him, over 6 months later since it's tedious to drive to get his live rats weekly and he's nearly had a rat get him in the eye due to a clumsy strike.

On a similar note, as the snake gets older you may want to consider frozen thawed if your corn remains clumsy on strikes like you described. A scared mouse will fight back and can cause injuries from a missed strike or a strike grabbing the belly and leaving the mouth able to bite. In my opinion, that would make feeding live a poor choice in that circumstance. That exact risk is why I'm trying to switch my live eater over since he is very clumsy on most strikes.

Freebie pic of a wrap I got recently from the method I described for you above:


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Oh, and the length of the shed doesn't tell much about the snake. Sheds naturally stretch out as they come off, so your snake isn't as long as its shed. The best metric folks on forums use is weight in grams.

Even a <$10 kitchen food scale works well for measuring the weight of a snake. Place a bowl or lid container on, zero it out, add snake and check the number.

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

Wow. That's a lot of text there. I did skim over bits of it, but I have a few comments/suggestions I thought I'd leave for you.

1. I doubt if the feeding response to live has been bred out like you mention as a possibility. Afaik most breeders start hatchlings of many species on live out of convenience and to ensure they all start eating before too long. If it were being hired out, F/T would be more notorious than it is for causing problem feeders outside of ball pythons. Most corn snakes take frozen enthusiastically and most who feed live say there's a stronger response to that than frozen.

2. My corn was similar as a very young hatchling. His first 2 to 3 meals with me were basically grab and swallow. After that I guess he figured out how to wrap. (I've never fed my corn live, so he learned and started wrapping prey entirely on frozen)

3. The lack of body strength is almost definitely because your corn is a baby. Young snakes aren't used to how to move and have worse balance due to age. Like how human toddlers can walk but are still wobbly. That and the strength to support its body will improve with age and size unless there's a serious medical issue involved. Until it hits 30+ grams, it's probably just from young age.

4. If you want to entice your corn to wrap, the best advice I've seen isn't related to what you do after the cornsnake strikes like tapping it or shaking the mouse. Rather, catch its attention prior to the strike. Wiggle the mouse or tap the ground near the entrance to the hide and wait till you see a head pop out or show interest. Don't leave the mouse there, as the snake comes toward the entrance and out keep backing the mouse away. Instead of striking from right in front of its nose, let it strike a few inches away after following it several inches away from the hide. This has always gotten me a much more enthusiastic wrap/coil on the prey. Unless your corn is super shy and wont peek out of the hide for food, this is the best thing to try and get a wrap. (Note that this will pretty much not work on live prey after you get over fuzzy mice. It'd be tough to keep a hold and a bit cruel to pinch as tightly onto an older mouse like you would need to in order to keep a grip. It is going to be food, but there's no need to cause it extra pain. By then, it moving around should be enticement enough anyway.)


Want to put out that I don't have anything against feeding live if it works for you and your snake. I have 1 ball python i got as an adult who has refused anything but live so far. I'm trying to switch him, over 6 months later since it's tedious to drive to get his live rats weekly and he's nearly had a rat get him in the eye due to a clumsy strike.

On a similar note, as the snake gets older you may want to consider frozen thawed if your corn remains clumsy on strikes like you described. A scared mouse will fight back and can cause injuries from a missed strike or a strike grabbing the belly and leaving the mouth able to bite. In my opinion, that would make feeding live a poor choice in that circumstance. That exact risk is why I'm trying to switch my live eater over since he is very clumsy on most strikes.

Freebie pic of a wrap I got recently from the method I described for you above:


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Thanks for the reply! Very beautiful snake you have. I've been putting into practice the separate feeding container method. I wonder if that would change anything in your suggestion by enticing it a little. Also can I ask at what size did you have that close call with the rat? From the pet stores and people I've talked to so far, they are telling me that up to a fuzzy and smaller, both mouse and rat, don't really have the teeth or ability to land a dangerous bite. So far the pinkies and peach fuzzy mice i've been feeding have little top teeth but not much but gums on the bottom so I'm not worried yet. I would only make the switch to f/t if she starts to out grow small fuzzies without learning to constrict.

Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

Oh, and the length of the shed doesn't tell much about the snake. Sheds naturally stretch out as they come off, so your snake isn't as long as its shed. The best metric folks on forums use is weight in grams.

Even a <$10 kitchen food scale works well for measuring the weight of a snake. Place a bowl or lid container on, zero it out, add snake and check the number.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Yeah, I was just noticing that today. When I took her out, she seemed smaller than the shed. I guess Ill have to weigh her

Baby corn snakes don't always constrict because A). There's no need to, and B). They haven't learned to.

In fact a lot of adult corn snakes don't constrict. If you're feeding pre-killed prey, why constrict it? It's already dead.

On the other hand if you're feeding live mice and rats, then constriction is necessary.

We don't recommend feeding live prey, as this can inflict harm to the snake. But if the snake has been fed pre-killed food all its life, then it has never had a need to constrict and probably won't.

I know lots of folks with snakes (Babies and Adults) that don't constrict. They just swallow the meal and go on. It's really nothing to be concerned about.

Ah, I guess I wasn't clear about the rat. I was a bit tired posting last night. The rat was a small rat (~70 grams) for my adult male ball python. Definitely not a concern for pinky or fuzzy mice or rats.

If you get up tonfuzzies without success, consider switching before going to hoppers in case your snake isn't interested at first. Some who eat live for a long time don't recognize frozen as food for a meal or two and it would be easier to switch on a prey item it is used to rather than changing to hopper and frozen simultaneously.

I have never really bothered with the separate container thing. For ball pythons (my only live feeder) it is recommended not to in most cases since moving them often causes them to lose interest in food. Not as important for corns since they usually eat no matter what. With frozen they strike off the ground, not into the ground, so the biggest chance of getting substrate is gone. If the prey is dry, they rarely pick up any bedding that actually gets swallowed and if it happens are such tiny pieces I've never worried (up to 1/8-1/4 the size of the snakes head; pretty easily something that can pass straight through).

I imagine if you moved it to the container with a hide, have 10 mins or so of quiet to settle then tried my idea, it would probably work the same. Obviously not if the container isn't secure though. You can always try putting down paper towel or a plate over substrate and giving it a shot in the enclosure if you're really concerned on that. I know it is just anecdotal, but mine had no issue even tiny at 6 grams with eating on his aspen.

Here's one of my earliest pictures of mine. My hands are pretty small (5'2" here..) and he still looked tiny. I think he was still <10 grams at the time.


Heres one of his earliest wraps around the same time:


And one he was so enthusiastic, he held the tongs too, so I move him onto a rock to get the tongs out.


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Originally Posted by Karl_Mcknight

But if the snake has been fed pre-killed food all its life, then it has never had a need to constrict and probably won't.

This is possible, maybe even probable. I'm not super experienced with corn snakes only having the one, but mine did learn to constrict without encouragement for me on only frozen thawed. He still does as long as the mouse isn't offer less than an inch from his face. Thise cases he just grabs it and eats, but if he does a strike from 2+ inches away he always go full on and wraps it hard for 10 or 15 minutes before eating.

I was under the impression from reading posts across several forums that wrapping or not on frozen was more of a 50/50 thing. Definitely could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

This is possible, maybe even probable. I'm not super experienced with corn snakes only having the one, but mine did learn to constrict without encouragement for me on only frozen thawed. He still does as long as the mouse isn't offer less than an inch from his face. Thise cases he just grabs it and eats, but if he does a strike from 2+ inches away he always go full on and wraps it hard for 10 or 15 minutes before eating.

I was under the impression from reading posts across several forums that wrapping or not on frozen was more of a 50/50 thing. Definitely could be wrong.

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EXCELLENT NEWS!!! I tried what you suggested and it worked! After picking up some pinkies from the store around the corner from my house, I wrapped the tips of my hemostats (one of those locking forecepts I "borrowed" from work) with some tissue and tiny strips of duct tape to provide a cushion. Then I took little hiss out and put her into the feeding bin. I picked up the pinky and passed it back and forth from her nose. The first time it passed by she just opened her mouth like she normally would to just grab and eat, but she got nothing but air. I could totally tell she was confused because she closed her mouth and after a few seconds looked right and left flicking her tongue. I passed it by a few more times and she started darting her head to follow the mouse and snapping a few times. I continued doing it and then she started to try and chase it, making darting movements instead of slow smooth ones. Finally she caught the mouse out of the hemostats, paused and then coiled so hard she basically tied herself in a knot lol. Success!!

Even though she coiled she didn't get a good loop around the body but... baby steps right? I let her constrict tighter and tighter for about 3-4 minutes before I crushed the pinkies cervical spine simulating suffocation, and a few seconds later she uncoiled and ate the pinky. I gave her the second pinky in the same way and this time she got a good coil, however, she didn't wait for the pinky to die this time. But still this is very good. It's a relief to watch her learn how to snake.

This is her:


Her first coil:


Right after her second coil:


Anyways. Thank you very much for the advice. Riling her up BEFORE the strike was definitely the trick.

p.s. the hemostats were wrapped for the pinky, not the snake. I use my hands to pick up my snakes in case that wasn't clear. Since the hemostats are metal I didn't want to hurt the pinky when dangling it around.