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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity.

"Safe" External Parasite Eradication methods
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:29 AM   #1
CowBoyWay
External Parasite Eradication methods

Mites are arachnids, so they have eight legs.
In the mite life cycle,
stage 1 is the egg, or nit,
which hatches to
stage 2, the six-legged nymph (larvae)
At stage 3, they molt into a eight-legged nymph, and then at stage 4, the adult.
It may take only a week for the mites to complete the life cycle.

"BLACK KNIGHT"
Many people swear by this stuff and a few have sworn at it but, all in all, this stuff has become legendary in Reptile /
Avian breeding circles.
This stuff really works and is not nearly as messy as "dusting" with "Food Grade Diamatatious Earth" can be.
(Try doing that to a mad parrot... he,he)

"Black Knight Roach Killer®
(=Aircraft Airosol Spray®).
This is an insecticide that was originally designed to spray on humans.
The active ingredient is 2% synthetic pyrethrins in an inoffensive non-aromatic inert aerosol base.
There are none of the stinky petroleum distillates that are found in all other roach sprays and insect sprays whose labels we’ve ever read.
The spray is essentially a dry powder, and it is the best killer of snake mites and all species of cockroaches that we have ever sampled.
If there is a silver bullet for snake mites, this is it.

Up until about 1996, this spray was named "Aircraft Airosol Spray and was sold only to the airlines and the military. It was used on military and commercial airplanes to spray the human passengers, as an attempt to control the spread of Mediterranean fruit flies and other agricultural pests. Just before landing in particular regions of the world, a stewardess would walk down the aisle with a can in each hand and liberally spray all of the passengers on the plane. It’s such innocuous stuff that most passengers assumed it was an air freshener.

Aircraft Airosol Spray was used on military flights as far back as Vietnam. Then, servicemen plagued with immense tropical roaches figured out that the stuff was the most extraordinary roach killer they had ever seen (it has ten times the amount of active ingredient found in other commercial insecticide sprays.) Later, a retired serviceman approached the manufacturer, and arranged to repackage the exact same spray as Black Knight Roach Killer®, for sale domestically. ..

Now the reason why you probably don’t see Black Knight Roach Killer in your local stores is that, while it may be the best product you ever use to kill either roaches or snake mites, it was not a commercial success.
It cost more than the lesser brands and people didn’t know to buy it. But most of those people don’t have snake collections to consider. You do."

http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/...SnakeMites.htm

Does anyone have any personal experiences regarding the use of Black Knight?

Also, I've read that the actual long term "soaking" of a snake will drown mites also, at least until mites decide to develop gills to breath underwater.
Does anyone use this technique and care to describe it?
A product called Dr. Bronner's Peppermint oil Soap (found in health-food stores) may accelerate the contact time needed for soaking a Corn "Clean". Another product you can literally, actually brush your teeth with, it's that safe.
one or two tablespoons to a gallon of water is commonly used in gardening as a naturaly sourced pestide, to eradicate mites, amongst other bugs.
 
Old 03-06-2003, 12:56 PM   #2
bmm
To just remove external mites a bath with a few drops of normal dish soap works. The soap on the surface usually leads to the mites drowning but this doesn;t do anything for the eggs or mites in the cage obviously.

bmm
 
Old 03-06-2003, 10:50 PM   #3
13mur 6
Has anyone ever tried rubbing down a mite infested snake with alcohol swabs? That would probably get the mites pretty dead, and disinfect the mite bites along with it. Not too sure on how safe it would be since alcohol vaporizes so readily and might irritate snakes' lungs, snake might also dislike the sensation. But it's an idea.

There's also this bug, forgot what it was called, went something like a tiger louse. It's usually found in wild mice. They're one of those symbiotic organisms, they feed off of mites, ticks, fleas and any other organism they can find in the fur of the mouse with fervor. Wouldn't know how to get em, but if you get like a bin fulla them and let the snake in there for a couple hours, prob pick him clean of mites. (Yeah, that's kinda nasty sounding I agree, but hey, the mice like em).

The ideal way (but super expensive), would be to produce an airborne mite infecting virus or bacteria (weapon grade, works only for a short duration and only infects mites). And since it's airborne, it'll kill off all the mites in the surrounding area of the cage too. But who the heck is going to spend millions of dollars to develop something like that? Oh wells, there's always wishing some rich guy with nothing to do might do it, or the army.

-13mur 6
 
Old 03-07-2003, 10:08 AM   #4
CowBoyWay
Safe be damned...

A user friendly, Nuclear Powered, Mite Zapping Ray-Gun/Sniper rifle for the average hobbiest would be the Ideal for me, but can't seem to find one online
The "Lock-On" sighting system probably needs more research and development though, them Mites be pretty quick.

Also, one should be sure to spay and neuter your mites (Spray and Neuter?)
http://www.rube-goldberg.com/html/pencil_sharpener.htm
K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple Simon

The peppermint soap, drop of detergent concepts are basically the same. If the snake were to actually drink the water, the Dr. Bonners is a lot less likely to cause a Side effect of diarrhea.
Swallowing even a tiny bit of detergent (unrinsed, dried soapy film drinking glass) can cause excruitingly painful cramps with extreme montezumas revenge included, in humans anyways, as I can personaly attest.

Soaking Corn Snakes first in "fresh" water for a little while may discourage ingestion/drinking of the soapy water.

Has anyone noticed a bout of diarrhea in there Corns after this type of soapy water treatment. Or is this not a factor?

A little dish detergent goes a long way...more would not necessarily be better.
If you happen to mix your dish soap in the sink with a little bleach while washing dishes, and your dish soap water generates gasses, the soap/detergent has ammonia in it and the gas is not a good thing.
Soaking in a soapy solution with traces of ammonia, another factor to consider...
A "pure" commonly available, dish washing/ snake washing detergent product without ammonia in the U.S. is a brand called "Joy".

A fresh water rinsing after a soapy water treatment would be advisable/ wouldn't hurt a thing, just be careful with water temps.imho
 
Old 03-07-2003, 02:37 PM   #5
kxv
I actually drank JOY dishwashing liquid once by mistake. It was not a good experience. Bubbles actually came out of my mouth as I jumped from a moving car in order to drink the nearest water fountain dry. I did a lot of throwing up that day (mostly bubbles); however; I don't remember having the runs. Also, it burns as much coming up as it does going down. So, be careful with rinsing those water dishes!
 
Old 03-08-2003, 09:20 AM   #6
CowBoyWay
Don't drink the bath water kids...

Always good advice

"Dish detergent,
Have you ever noticed how water beads up on the surfaces of snake scales, like water drops on a finely waxed table? When snakes are placed underwater this property of snake skin can cause small air bubbles to form around and under scale margins all over the snake.

Water on the surface of a mite does a similar thing; water at first doesn't soak a mite, instead the chitinous external surface of the mite repels the water and causes an air bubble to form around the mite. With all these little underwater air supplies, a mite on a submerged snake can take a long time to drown.

As a solution, soak mite-infested snakes in soapy water. I've read recommendations from anywhere from 15 minutes on up to 12 hours soak time.
The water should be just deep enough to cover the snake when it’s sitting on the bottom—don’t make it swim.
The snake doesn’t even have to be completely submerged, just thoroughly wet with the soapy water.

...The soap reduces the surface tension of the water and this reduces or eliminates the little underwater air bubbles and causes the mites to drown faster...

The water should be neither hot nor cold; usually the same temperature as the ambient temperature of the cage of the snake is best (use a thermometer, don't guess.)
Don't allow the water to heat or cool more than a few degrees during the duration of the soak.
Snakes with a high risk of drowning, such as very sick or uncoordinated individuals, should not be soaked."
http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/...TheWeapons.htm

Curious as to effective minimum soak times with this technique.

I have heard that some arachnids, (Spiders) can "hold there Breath" for twenty four hours, but I imagine it has to do with that air bubble / surface tension of the water thing.
 
Old 03-08-2003, 01:26 PM   #7
gardenmum
I had gotten

a snake last fall from a pet store that had mites (unbeknownst to me until a couple of days later) I had read about soaking in a warm bath with a drop of liquid soap, so I gave the snake a 1/2 hr. dip twice a day for 4 days, cleaned his viv out with bleach water and have had no mites since. It really worked well and I was glad because I preferred this to the many chemical solutions that I had read about. But I had not heard about Black Night. I will probably get it to keep on hand if ever the need arises again (hopefully never!)
Thanks for the info.

Gardenmum
 
Old 03-11-2003, 01:12 AM   #8
CowBoyWay
Post The Mighty Black Knight...

A MITE ATTACK AND PREVENTION STRATEGY
using BLACK KNIGHT Roach Killer
( Thanks!, Pro Exotics for this FAQ)

"Reptile mites are evil, evil creatures, and they should be banished from existence forever.
Ok, maybe that is a bit over the top, I am sure mites play an important role in the biodiversity of nature, but they are not going to play a role in our collection ,and hopefully, not in yours either.

A mite outbreak in a collection is a serious issue, and you must be extremely thorough, and you must see the treatment through, to eradicate the parasite for good.
Once your collection is clean, you need to stay on your toes to prevent reintroduction from a number of sneaky sources.

We haven’t had mites at Pro Exotics in many years, but it is a fear that is easily in the top three, and we have preventative measures in place, and we follow them without fail, to stop any mite introduction at the door.

If you are unfortunate enough to have a current mite outbreak, you truly need to overreact to the situation to deal with it completely and effectively.
If we have a bank of 500 ball python cages (we do), and we find one mite in one water bowl in one cage, the entire wall is going to be broken down, and our thorough treatment takes immediate precedent over any other goals, cleaning, feeding, and even breeding, for the day. It is suddenly a team effort, and we work quickly and smartly, and we overreact.

You have to go all the way with your treatment, breaking down an entire wall, a whole room, or even an entire collection, because if you don’t, if you clean five cages well, but miss that sixth cage with fresh mite eggs (due to hatch in a couple of weeks), you are risking the entire collection becoming infected, and for a large breeder, that can mean hundreds or thousands of mite infested snakes.

If we find that one lonely mite (be assured there are already others you don’t see), then we break down the entire section. If you find a few mites, in a few cages, in a single room, then you have to do the entire room. If there are hundreds of mites in many cages, you really are best off doing the entire collection. If you have only a handful of cages, perhaps a dozen, you are going to be better off doing the whole collection in response to even that single mite, because believe me, you will kick yourself in two weeks when the two hours you saved today turn into another 10 hours of work then.

Reptile mites are tiny creatures, but they are active, and they can travel up to 48 feet in an hour.
That is a long way, and can cross a LOT of cages. When I insist on being extremely thorough with our attack, it isn’t a joke, and it isn’t fun, it is a serious response to a potentially disastrous situation.

The reptile mite is a tricky, stubborn, and tough little bug. Dave and Tracy Barker break down the species account of the reptile mite very well in their "War Against Mites" paper available at their site, vpi.com, and I suggest everyone read and understand that paper to better understand the enemy that we are dealing with.

Very briefly, mites have a simple life cycle, lasting from thirteen to as many as forty days.
In this period, they hatch, feed, breed, and die, which is not so bad except for the fact that they reproduce exponentially (doh!),

and mite infestation numbers can go from a few single individuals to many many thousands in a matter of days.

Not sure if you have mites or not? Well, then we have to do a cage check.

You are looking for walking pepper. Yep, mobile little black spots on the go, they crawl around the cage, on the animal, and on your hands.

They drown easily in water, and reptiles aren’t dumb, so you will often find a snake soaking in its water bowl, trying to administer its own self-treatment.

Check the bottom of the bowl for dusty specks, those would be the mites.

They pop when you squish ‘em, best done between a couple of fingernails, or against the side of the water bowl. Dust, dirt, and substrate don’t explode when you smash them, mites do : )

If you have newspaper substrate, study that for a moment, you can catch the traveling mites walking across the white pages fairly easily.
Check the reptile for mites on the skin, under the scales (especially belly scales), and around the eyes and pits. Set the animal down, and then check your hands. You will usually see at least a few cruising across your palm.

Don’t worry, these are REPTILE mites, and without a scaly animal to feed on, the mites will die quickly, so they are no danger to humans.

You can also take a damp white paper towel, and wipe down the length of a suspect reptile, you will pull at least a few of these buggers off on the towel, where they are easy to spot.

As of 2002, the best weapon against a mite outbreak is Black Knight, period.

In the past we have tried other treatments and approaches, most successfully No Pest Strips (a solid second place choice, but much more dangerous for your reptiles), but for the past 6 or 7 years, we have used Black Knight just about exclusively, and with fantastic results.

Black Knight works, and it is what you should use. Really.

Of course, if you ask a dozen "experts" about their mite weapon, you are liable to get a half dozen different responses. Go to an online reptile forum, post a question about mite treatments, and you will get a wide range of replies with many approaches.

Some folks say simply soaking the animal in water kills mites. It does, sort of. Some keepers go through the elaborate steps of coating an animal in cooking oil. That one sounds too stupid to even try, so I don’t know if it works, but I am a snake keeper, not a snake cooker. Other companies promote lotions that have natural ingredients that "kill mites" when slathered on an animal. Great, what smooth skin you have (what are these funny little bugs?)!

Number one, be careful of advice (any advice!) you get from the internet, or even friends. Give a guy a cornsnake for two weeks, and the next thing you know he is online answering every breeding, diet, regurgitation, and parasite question as an "expert". Enthusiasm is great, reptiles are a great hobby, but good grief, not everyone is an expert! (on a side note, using oils and creams can suffocate and overheat reptiles, especially small ones, so the "slather" treatment is DEFINITELY not recommended)

These "treatments" fail to even address the life cycle of the animal you are attacking! Anyone recommending an "oil slathering" treatment doesn’t have the rudimentary knowledge to even understand the problem themselves! Sure, you may kill a majority of the live mites on the actual animal (you won’t kill them all), but you have done absolutely NOTHING to address the problem of the thousands of eggs waiting patiently in the cage and rack. A few dozen, or even hundred mites, on the actual body of the reptile is absolutely dwarfed by the mite love waiting for the host back in its home cage. Without addressing this side of the issue, you are spinning your wheels, wasting valuable time, and putting the health of your collection at risk.

In order to eradicate this tenacious parasite completely, you need to address the live mite, as well as the eggs waiting to hatch. Only one product does this effectively and safely, and that is Black Knight. It is an aerosol that fogs the entire cage (and rack, and floor, and room) killing live mites, as well as desiccating those invisible eggs. (PLEASE NOTE: Black Knight kills bugs. PERIOD! That means it will kill your feeder crickets, your feeder roaches, and your precious Tarantula collection. It is also not for use with frogs or other chemically sensitive pets (geckos have been known to react negatively to No-Pest Strips). Be sure to move these animals well away from any possible exposure while you are treating your snakes and lizards for mites.)...

...Now, don’t go getting all super smart on us and get the next cheapest roach spray at the hardware store.
Black Knight is expensive because of its formulation. It uses active ingredients (d-phenothrin) that you WILL NOT find in other common insecticides. Believe me, I’ve looked. And not only do I NOT KNOW if Raid will kill mites, it may very well leave your reptiles screwy. Or dead.

Stores don’t sell Black Knight because they already have plenty of $4 roach killer. You need Black Knight because it safely and effectively kills reptile mites without harming your animals. Don’t be a cheapskate, go with the real deal.

Another great feature of the Black Knight is the delivery technology of the active ingredients.
When you spray with Black Knight, you leave an invisible residue that works against bugs for weeks on end. I spray Black Knight around my house, around the doors and windows, and the ants and spiders of summer disappear for months.
This residual effect is part of what makes Black Knight such an effective mite treatment, and why it works so well on not just the live mites, but the ones that are hatching as well.

So let’s put it into action. For our first attack, let’s assume that the mites are already here, and you have found them on animals or in cages.

Once again, be thorough and go a bit overboard casting your treatment net.

Your first step is going to be to spray the snake racks. You already have mites in cage number one, spend a few minutes hitting up the surrounding area so that nothing spreads further while we are breaking down cages.

Spray around the cages, on the shelves, and across the floors. Spray the doorways, spray your tools, spray the trashcan (we will be tossing suspicious items in there soon), just pretend it is Lysol and get all immediate and obvious surfaces. Please remember that Black Knight is a bug spray, and technically (?) crickets, feeder roaches, and other valuable insects are bugs too, and will fall before the power of the Mighty Black Knight! (this treatment is for snakes and lizards, Tarantulas, frogs, and other chemically sensitive pets will fall too!)

Once you have quickly hit up the most obvious mite highways, start the treatment by soaking your reptiles.

Soaking your snakes in room temperature water (about as deep as the thickness of the animal, see our FAQ on soaking for more important soaking details) will kill off many of the live mites on the body of the animal, and give you time for phase two.

While your animal(s) is soaking, which should last 1-2 hours, you will need to thoroughly clean the cage(s). Toss out any substrates, as well as any other disposable cage decoration. For your water bowls, hidespots, and other cage furniture, a nice long hot washing with dish soap and a good scrubber brush is step one, soaking for an hour or so in a 10% bleach solution (or Virosan) is step two. Scrub out the cage as well, getting the nooks and crannies, and be as thorough as possible.

Once all your items are thoroughly cleaned and disinfected, you can reassemble your cage. Use newspaper, or another simple substrate, as cage beddings like aspen, cypress, or care fresh offer too many hiding spaces for the mites and eggs. Put back the hide spots and other decorations, but don’t fill the water bowl for now.

Next go ahead and spray the assembled cage down with Black Knight. You are not trying to hit every surface, but rather "fogging" the cage with a good healthy blast. For a Rubbermaid sweaterbox, or a 2 foot cage, I would suggest hitting it for a good 4 or 5 seconds. For a 4 ft cage, perhaps twice that long.

Now that the cage is treated, pull your snake from soaking and put it into a plain, dry container. For most animals, we use empty Rubbermaid sweaterboxes. Now you can spray the animal itself. Once again, you are not trying to coat the actual animal (there is nothing in Black Knight that "coats", no slime, no slickness), you are simply fogging the container, another 2 or 3 seconds. (PLEASE NOTE: nothing is foolproof! For very small cages, neonate animals like tiny colubrids, or animals in deep shed, be smart, and use significantly less. It doesn’t take but a short half second shot to fill a shoebox, and remember, small newborns have TINY respiratory systems, and they can be overwhelmed by anything intruding on their airspace, so easy on the trigger there, cowboy.)

There is no need to spray the animal directly, and while I don’t think it would be harmful to the animal, it is just not necessary, and the fogging step is extremely effective.

Let the cage and the animal sit for another hour or so, thank your lucky stars that reptile mites are not made of titanium, place the snake back into its cage, and fill the water bowl. That is it for today. Pretty simple, for a single cage. Of course, earlier I strongly recommended that you do ALL the cages, so perhaps you will need to repeat this 4, 5, or 100 more times.

Now that we have thoroughly attacked the reptile mite with an intelligent and effective strategy, it is best to follow up on that attack for extra assurance that it has indeed been addressed over the long term.

Black Knight is such an effective mite killer that I am not sure that follow up treatments are truly necessary, but when facing an adversary like Ophionyssus natricis, you want to get it right the first time.

Let’s say you do your first (and toughest) treatment on a Monday, you will want to follow up with a treatment for the next 3 Mondays. At this point, it really is extra insurance, but theoretically, you are killing off any remaining mite eggs that are waiting to hatch.

For your follow up treatments, it should be much easier. We pull the water bowls, leave the snake in the cage, and fog it out. Unless you see more live mites (and if you went through the first attack properly, you shouldn’t) this is all that is necessary for your 3 follow up treatments. But remember to hit them weekly.

To use the Black Knight PREVENTIVELY, it is a bit simpler…

First of all, DON’T ORDER ANIMALS FROM SOMEONE THAT WILL SEND YOU MITES!!

This seems like a no-brainer, but you wouldn’t believe how many folks are looking to get some "rock bottom deal" and instead of one animal arriving, they get 1000 (1 snake, 999 mites).
You really do get what you pay for.
The other trick is when you fall for the okey-doke and think that "Big Name Wholesale Joe" is above sending you crappy animals, but in reality, he doesn’t quite have the morals and standards you supposed.

Be demanding and extra particular when getting new animals, and don’t settle for anything less than complete professionalism, and
it isn’t professional to ship out animals with mites.

When we receive new reptiles at Pro Exotics, they go from the shipping bag right into a soaking container. Soaking the animals gives them a chance to rehydrate (they are often dry after shipping), and floats off any indicators of a problem ("Hey! Who ordered pepper with this python?!?"). While the animals are soaking, we toss out the bags (or directly launder them), and spray down the boxes, inside and out, with Black Knight, placing them outside our facility until we get a chance for closer inspection.

Once the animals are done soaking (an hour or so), and we have seen no mites, they go into the dry Rubbermaid, and we fog it up with Black Knight. While we wait an hour for the Black Knight to go to work, we set up the cage for the new arrival. Out of the Rubbermaid, and into the cage.

We will follow up this treatment weekly as described above, hitting the new arrival with a couple more doses of Black Knight Love, and at that point, we are confident that we have an external parasite-free animal.

Using this immediate treatment of new arrivals has kept us mite free for years, and if done properly, it is extremely effective.

Black Knight is a terrific product, easily the best product available, and an important weapon in the reptile hobby to keep our collections clean and healthy. It doesn’t much matter whether you get Black Knight from Pro Exotics, or one of the many sellers on the internet, the important thing is that you get it, use it, and rid your reptile world of the nightmare that is mite infestation!

Pro Exotics Disclaimer;
NOTE: NOTHING IS FOOLPROOF!
MITE TREATMENTS USE CHEMICALS!!

At Pro Exotics, we have sold hundreds and hundreds of cans of Black Knight, and we firmly believe that it is the best mite treatment available. However, as we sell more and more of the product, certainly our "sample group" grows, and we have gotten some feedback from a small number of customers that have had problems using the product, and some have lost animals.

Out of hundreds of customers, we have gotten this negative feedback from less than five. Snakes affected have primarily been neonates, including some hognose, but there were also a couple of mature boas that were lost shortly after a Black Knight treatment. The cause of death in those boas is clinically unknown, but certainly the owner of the animals thought the timing was suspicious.

We have yet to have a single problem with juvenile and adult reptiles (snakes and monitors) in our own facility, and we have no control over how other folks treat their animals, but these instances are unfortunate enough for us to add this preliminary note to our Black Knight page. Mites are killed with chemicals, whether you are using BK, another similar chemical "preventing" spray, or No Pest Strips, at this point in time there is no way around that. Regardless of the method you choose to attack your mite problem, you HAVE TO ATTACK it, and rid the mites from your collection.
We believe that Black Knight is the safest and most effective treatment for reptile mites. Read and educate yourself, and make an informed, intelligent decision!"
© 2002-2003 Pro Exotics Inc.
Feel free to print, save, and distribute this FAQ courtesy of Pro Exotics.
 

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