Newbie-ess & problem

Hi

Im Jemma, from the UK & owner of (I hope) a female crimson & a male anery corn respectively. They are both young juveniles in the same viv (yes I know, dont start, they seem fine and happy with each other)

I could do with some help as the female seems not to want to eat - shes refused three times now - its as if she turns her nose up at it and isnt interested - im feeding every three days or so. One pinkie. Shes pooping ok, with approx equal measure dark/urate/liquid - no blood or anything obvious that I can see.. and her mouth is not gaping.

Both of them - once they are picked up are calm and content to be held and just wander around exploring my hands, the girl likes to curl up in my hair or over my glasses frames and will sit there happy for over an hour... so I dont think they are at all stressed. They arent droopy or listless and their tongues go a mile a minute - making a little tiny click every time which is cute. Neither of them like being put back, they try and make it as difficult as possible for me..

The female shed two days after I got her - which would explain why she was pretty frantic after getting here - so I dont think its that shes in blue again, although her belly is showing the same iridescence as she did when she was shedding...

I did have one instance with the grey of regurgitation but I know that was because of overfeeding - so I left it a few days and gave him the smallest pinkie I could get - he was fine (I know it was him because I came home and caught him just after the act in the middle of the day). The Crimson took a meal the same time and was her usual ravenous self but she hasnt eaten since and I am beginning to get worried.

They will both take food from my hands without problem - she did try for my index finger once but soon realised that I wasnt lunch - I felt less from that than from her tongue.

The temps seem ok - they like to sit right in the middle on the edge of the heat mat - there is plenty of hide area - they have access to clean water & the substrate is kitchen roll.

Does anyone have any ideas why she should suddenly go off her food like that? I have, I should mention already tried braining - if anything that put her off more. Any ideas how I can get her to eat again - I dont want them getting disparate in size if I can help it...

And yes - Im addicted to the little cuties

thanks in advance

Jemma xx

P.S. does anyone know if corns can see colour? - I ask because the only times I have seen them drink is when I fill the white sink in the bathroom and they drink from my hands - they dont seem to touch the brown water dish in their viv - its the same water - so could it be the colour they dont like?

They are not fine if one isn't eating, so I'd suggest separating them as the first step. Co-habbing can cause stress, snakes are solitary by nature, so maybe competing for the best resources is not helping your female. (Laying in hides together isn't affection, they are both after the same ideal spot) Also cohabbing sub-adults can mean breeding too early, putting strain on a young female that you could lose to egg-binding.
Secondly, I'd suggest not handling the female at all until she's feeding reliably again. Handling a young snake is also a stress, and you want her conserving her energy for growth, not using it during handling sessions.
She could be going into shed again, and some snakes regularly refuse to eat in shed, frustrating I know but not that unusual, out of mine I've got 6 that just won't eat until after shed.
A really hot, dry-thawed pinky offered in a small tub overnight might kick-start her feeding response, but don't offer too soon, space feeding attempts out to 4-5 day intervals, offering too often can just condition the refusal to become more likely. Using a hairdryer to warm the pinky through works well, but not too close or the damn thing flies out of your hand!

Were the two of them cohabited together before you got them? If not, that may be part of your problem.

I say this because my female corn was a problem feeder for the person who owned her before me (she was regurging). In retrospect, he thought it may have been because she could see other snakes from her viv - we talked about a month after I got her, and I've never had feeding issues with her. She is on the nervous side, so being able to even see another snake may have stressed her out. Since adding to the collection, I've always made sure she can't see into another viv, and she's been fine.

If your girl isn't accustomed to living with another snake, or has a temperament like mine, living with a "buddy" may stress her out too much to eat.

I can't help you on the color question.

Originally Posted by diamondlil

They are not fine if one isn't eating, so I'd suggest separating them as the first step. Co-habbing can cause stress, snakes are solitary by nature, so maybe competing for the best resources is not helping your female. (Laying in hides together isn't affection, they are both after the same ideal spot) Also cohabbing sub-adults can mean breeding too early, putting strain on a young female that you could lose to egg-binding.
Secondly, I'd suggest not handling the female at all until she's feeding reliably again. Handling a young snake is also a stress, and you want her conserving her energy for growth, not using it during handling sessions.
She could be going into shed again, and some snakes regularly refuse to eat in shed, frustrating I know but not that unusual, out of mine I've got 6 that just won't eat until after shed.
A really hot, dry-thawed pinky offered in a small tub overnight might kick-start her feeding response, but don't offer too soon, space feeding attempts out to 4-5 day intervals, offering too often can just condition the refusal to become more likely. Using a hairdryer to warm the pinky through works well, but not too close or the damn thing flies out of your hand!

Its not at all likely shes going into shed since its only been a few days since the last one. The 7th of this month in fact.

I have researched all the stuff I can find about co-hab and its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - some people hate it some people like it. Its not ideal in my opinion but at the moment its the only option I have. I measured the crimsons shed skin at 50cms, I very much doubt shes anywhere near old enough to breed or even be interested.

I have to handle her to put her in the feeding container - she seems to love her own reflection in there btw - I hadnt thought of using the hairdryer - I might try that actually. I have up until now been using the hot water thaw method.

I have looked at my records and its been 5 days since shes eaten - in that time gray has taken 2 feeds - I know its not disaster area yet but im starting to get a little worried because they've no spare fat to use if they are not feeding.

Originally Posted by JemmaUK

Its not at all likely shes going into shed since its only been a few days since the last one. The 7th of this month in fact.

I have researched all the stuff I can find about co-hab and its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other - some people hate it some people like it. Its not ideal in my opinion but at the moment its the only option I have. I measured the crimsons shed skin at 50cms, I very much doubt shes anywhere near old enough to breed or even be interested.

I have to handle her to put her in the feeding container - she seems to love her own reflection in there btw - I hadnt thought of using the hairdryer - I might try that actually. I have up until now been using the hot water thaw method.

I have looked at my records and its been 5 days since shes eaten - in that time gray has taken 2 feeds - I know its not disaster area yet but im starting to get a little worried because they've no spare fat to use if they are not feeding.

How often are you feeding? 5-6 day intervals is normal for hatchlings on pinks, then leave alone for 2-3 days with no handling so they can digest, you don't feed them every other day. Handling whilst digesting is a sure recipe for regurges. (Putting in a feeding tub doesn't count, holding them for 15 mins or more is handling)

Originally Posted by JemmaUK

It Its not ideal in my opinion but at the moment its the only option I have.

Cohabbing isn't ideal. A new viv can be had very inexpensively, a small kritter keeper or the like. If the problem is stress due to cohabbing, then spending time and energy looking into other stuff isn't going to net a good return for you.

Here's some good general advice, the cohabbing section includes some links to a couple threads you could read.


http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28341

Of the two of them Claudia (the crimson) is if anything the less nervous of the two and was eating absolutely fine until recently... I dont know of their history previous because they came from a dealer but they are both healthy - or at least they arent showing any of the signs I have learned to watch for.

I fed them on a two day interval the once - because I was worried about the male being hungry and feeding Claudia on her own might give him ideas... usually I feed every three days which is what I was told by a breeder I enquired of... and then I would feed with bigger intervals but bigger items as they grew..

How do you tell a nervous snake from one that isnt? They both seem calm to me, if anything Claudia's the calmer of the two. neither bite, they dont 'rattle' - about the only thing they do with their tails is raise them when they poop. They do 'S' occasionally when I get them out of the viv or accidently bop their noses or move too fast but they seem docile in comparison to the ballistic missiles/bite factories that some people have mentioned on here.

I am going to let them alone the next 3 days completely then I will try and feed them again. Hopefully Claudia will take something next time.

Originally Posted by Lucille

Cohabbing isn't ideal. A new viv can be had very inexpensively, a small kritter keeper or the like. If the problem is stress due to cohabbing, then spending time and energy looking into other stuff isn't going to net a good return for you.

Here's some good general advice, the cohabbing section includes some links to a couple threads you could read.


http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28341

As I said - I dont think its ideal either - but as of now I dont have any other options. If she doesnt eat in the next few days - 3-4 or so - then I will look at housing her separately in a small/medium plastic box or something, since that is all I can afford...
I dont have transport and I live in a town thats the backside of nowhere so getting stuff cheap is nigh on impossible. So far as I know we no longer even have a pet shop in town - it closed fairly recently... so I will have to make do and mend as it were.

Plastic tubs are a pretty well-established way of housing hatchlings, so that'd be absolutely fine.

Seriously, 2 or 3 day intervals is too often. 5 days when they are on tiny 1g pinks is ok, but 6 days is the usual interval for hatchlings once they are established. (By which I mean after their first shed, eat 4-5 meals and ready to sell). Have you got a wooden or all glass viv? How is it heated, how is the temperature regulated and measured? Knowing the set-up makes it easier to help.
My hatchlings start off in the microwave tubs (like chineses takeaway containers that I buy in Wilkos, then keepers graduate into lunch-box sixe containers at around 5-6 months, and so on to full size tubs because I use racks. Hatchlings do really well in small tubs, it may seem strange but bigger living spaces at that stage can really set them back. The tubs don't have to be bare, I get bad-taste flowers for the little 'uns to hide in and under.