Oh nooo....

P.S

Elle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

Ignore the vid lol, just the song!

Thanks Connor... I despise that song lol

Keep your chin up girlie, sounds like she's doin' ok, still keeping my fingers crossed

My RO female just refused her first meal ever in five years...lol...but she does look fit to burst and is just going blue for her pre-lay, so I'm going to be pacing again in a couple of weeks or so

I feel for you, hope she comes good and drops those eggs like a good girl very soon!

Best wishes,

I've been reading up on this thread but have held back on commenting mostly because I don't know what other words of encouragement to offer you that haven't already been said.
But as it has been mentioned before, and is a great point, at least she's not eggbound It sure would suck if Lacey wasn't all fertile but as long as her health isn't adversly effected in the long run...

Well who knows... I will probably pair Lacey and Hal again next year just to see if it was the first time jitters or if indeed one or both snakes were infertile. Hal will also have a date with my hypo pewter next year so we shall see if he manages to produce a fertile clutch with her. If not I have to assume it's his fault and he can learn to play an instrument on a street corner to pay for his upkeep

Any news???

^^I ask the same question^^

Nothing else since those 4 slugs over the weekend but she hasn't moved from her laybox. And my once gorgeous gentle girl has the most god awful attitude.

Still nothing from Lacey. I sprayed her coils this morning which she enthusiastically drunk. While she was in an ok mood I had a wee feel of her belly and theres still eggs in there but I noticed her checks are cloudy so I think shes went into a shed. I gently lifted her head out and stuck it in her waterbowl and she began to gulp half the contents. So I'm pleased shes hybrated and if she is going into a shed all I can do is wait really. Theres no eggs near her vent so shes not bound as far as I can tell...

Apart from waiting is there anything I can do? Will she lay the rest of the eggs after this shed? Why is she going into shed before finishing laying? She had her prelay on the 18th and laid the first slug on the 30th btw...

How many and how small do the eggs feel? Are they all together, or are they a couple of inches apart?

They are smallish... and not very spaced apart.

No more updates today either... shes going this on purpose and I feel like throwing her out the winddow. Or myself. It eliminates the problem one way or another LOL

Have faith, Elle!

I'm sure Lacey's just testing you!


Connor

Well I think she has had her fun by now!

If she is going into a post-laying shed, then there is no doubt that fits as dystocia. The question is what to do about it? On the small, obvious infertile eggs, aspirating them likely will NOT help. They are SMALL enough to pass easily, so making them smaller won't help her pass them. Not really. It would, however, increase the chance for medication and require antibiotics to reduce the minor chance of infection. I would strongly recommend AGAINST aspiration of small, infertile, slugs. No doubts there.

What is left: wait or patience (if palpation is not possible since they are too high up). Me? I'd do patience. Both options can be successful or fail miserable at helping the animal. Surgery is expensive...and often results in an animal that is not safe to breed again.

It is NOT unusual for a female to keep a slug or two - especially higher up. If small, we almost never personally worry TOO MUCH about it. We've had them pass them months later (or weeks later) with no problems. We've even had them pass the slugs during the following brumation. I know one friend who had a kingsnake pass the four, hard, slugs the following year with a normal clutch of eggs! None of this is recommended, but we have tended to find WITH SMALL SLUGS patience USUALLY (not always) works best...and just wait for the female to lay those on here own. Frequently, they'll just be dropped in the cage some time in the future. Surprisingly, they don't seem to be pushed out with a bowl movement... Shrug?

You need to make your own decision, but I would start feeding her small meals (after the shed) and not worry too much unless she begins to show signs of distress or illness. Period. Just watch. I'[ve got at least one out there right now with a high slug. i've got no doubt she'll drop that one in a few weeks with NO problems. If I didn't palpate the females so well after laying eggs, I wouldn't even know it was there. I suspect a lot of people find a dried slug in the cage months later....and wonder where it came from!

Good luck,
KJ

I have the opptertunity to get her to a much closer vet today (in a few hours infact). A snakey breeder friend of mine has been using this vet for 5+ years even though they are not exotic specialists however she holds them in high faith. I'm not actually sure what they would do or recommend though...

I'm really not sure what to do. I only saw what I thought was cloudy belly checks (Im usually very good at telling whether a snake is going into shed at least a week in advance of any cloudy eye tell tale signs). I don't know what I was feeling when I checked but I am positive theres still something in there and it's not too high up.

I don't think I can cope with just waiting it out, especially if anything happened to her. I could never forgive myself

Everytime I see this topic up again I come in hoping that everything will be ok for you and Lacey. I still hope that Elle, but of course I have no good pearls of wisdom because I've never been in this situation before.
You just need to do whatever you think is right.

not to take away from this discussion, but recently ive been pondering techniques to help females lay their eggs. I know muscle is a big factor, and was wondering the best way to improve this aspect... Handling gets them moving, which increases their overall muscle. What about feeding live mice? Either way, heres to good luck for Lacey)

marchettid said:

What about feeding live mice?

Click to expand...

30 seconds of constriction is nothing - it won't help muscle tone enough to matter. Pre-killed mice are more difficult to digest, so that might help reduce obesity. I say let the females GO HUNGRY at times. Don't let them get too thin - just don't feed them when they start looking for food. Crawling is like jogging - it builds muscle tone. Duh. They'll wander the cage getting their exercise AT THAT TIME.....but these small slugs (and being retained) don't seem to be related to muscle tone like dystocia on large, fertile, eggs. I think it is the opposite: the body just doesn't begin to contract to push them out at that time.

Borrow the last couple editions of Mader if you want to read the best info on reptile care. Start with the older ones and read to the newest edition. He recommends pretty much the same thing herpers have learned...except he's been 3-5 years behind what hobbyists/breeders knew on their own....lol. The older references suggest surgery a couple days after the other eggs are laid. Bad idea. The newest references are saying more and more to "wait a little longer and not jump the gun." Of course, it is in vet-ese, but that's the direction you can see the references moving......

Thankfully, I have an "in" with a vet that helped pay her way through vet school by breeding snakes. Obviously, THAT'S the vet to trust. Add in she was the youngest in her class and the only one to get in without requiring a bachelor's degree, and I think she's proven her knowledge over and over again.......even if you ignore her post-doc, residency, and PhD following vet school......lol. Yeah, I'm bragging about my vet. I'm allowed.

Lacey is most deffinatley in blue. I can see one lump about 2 inches from her vet which I assume is an egg... should I wait this one out?