HYBINO Phenotype Discussion

Funny how people keep on saying he surely won't try to rip off people, while I or anyone else never accused him of that in this thread. People can make mistakes, like mixing up photo's or wrongly id an animal because of expectations about what it is. Doc's 'defenders' immediately jump on the bandwagon that I/we think he is ripping people of. Can't people actually READ? I feel like I'm nagging here and probably will be accused of a personal war against Doc or something like that soon, but I just can't refrain from a discussion when I feel my integrity is being questioned, because that's one of my priority values in life. I have an honest doubt about these animals, any breeder can make a mistake one way or another, but in the end I might be wrong also. Still, I hope for more photo's or an answer to the question if the borders are white in real life, but hey, I guess I won't be served....

Originally Posted by Blutengel

Funny how people keep on saying he surely won't try to rip off people, while I or anyone else never accused him of that in this thread. People can make mistakes, like mixing up photo's or wrongly id an animal because of expectations about what it is. Doc's 'defenders' immediately jump on the bandwagon that I/we think he is ripping people of. Can't people actually READ? I feel like I'm nagging here and probably will be accused of a personal war against Doc or something like that soon, but I just can't refrain from a discussion when I feel my integrity is being questioned, because that's one of my priority values in life. I have an honest doubt about these animals, any breeder can make a mistake one way or another, but in the end I might be wrong also. Still, I hope for more photo's or an answer to the question if the borders are white in real life, but hey, I guess I won't be served....

As this thread is now open for discussion, it's really missing the most important part, because we can speculate as to what we think might be the genetics (and I really am leaning towards Susan's Ultramel suggestion) but without any feedback from Doc there just won't be any resolution.
I don't see why a few posters are defending Doc so vigorously. He's not being called a liar or a cheat, just being asked if there is any possibility of the snakes having a different genotype.

I can see where people are getting the idea to defend Doc. Considering Blutengel made an issue of this in his for sale ad.

I will be receiving my Trio next week on Wednesday or Thursday. I am not really up-to-speed on this genetics discussion and will be happy with whatever they turn out to be!
It's a GREAT Deal on a COOL Trio with LOTS of possibilities! I will take some photos of them and post them next weekend. Eye color and white border color seems to be the "gray area"...am I right?
Reptiledoc is all right in my book!!!

Todd

Originally Posted by diamondlil

As this thread is now open for discussion, it's really missing the most important part, because we can speculate as to what we think might be the genetics (and I really am leaning towards Susan's Ultramel suggestion) but without any feedback from Doc there just won't be any resolution.
I don't see why a few posters are defending Doc so vigorously. He's not being called a liar or a cheat, just being asked if there is any possibility of the snakes having a different genotype.

Doc is having computer issues and is presently unable to respond, although from the very beginning he has insisted that these babies are hybinos and listed the parents. When this was a for sale ad, he was questioned about not only the genetics of the babies, but also the parents. That obviously wasn't good enough for certain individual(s). Now maybe hijacking someones for sale ad and questioning the genetic accuracy of the animals in question isn't calling the seller a liar, but I believe that it is reason enough to come to the seller's defense, especially since I KNOW that the person making the insinuation is wrong, as is evident in post #11 (I've never seen a hypo bloodred with RED eyes).

Another little thought...if they really are something like ultramels het avalanche motley or even better, hypo ultramels het avalanche motley, they would be valued at a bit more than what they are currently priced at, so Doc may just want to take a second, really close look at those eyes.

Originally Posted by Susan

Another little thought...if they really are something like ultramels het avalanche motley or even better, hypo ultramels het avalanche motley, they would be valued at a bit more than what they are currently priced at, so Doc may just want to take a second, really close look at those eyes.

This is true Susan, but wouldn't the only way they could be hypo ultramels be if the father was an Ultramel/Ultra Bloodred? Now maybe I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but it sure looked like a bright fire to me. Plus I doubt Rich would've sold it as a Hypo Fire if it was an Ultramel Blood. I think maybe lighting and/or angle in the ad pics is what is raising the questions. I'm sure Doc will post additional pics when he is able.

Originally Posted by melrad_61000

Doc is having computer issues and is presently unable to respond, although from the very beginning he has insisted that these babies are hybinos and listed the parents. When this was a for sale ad, he was questioned about not only the genetics of the babies, but also the parents. That obviously wasn't good enough for certain individual(s). Now maybe hijacking someones for sale ad and questioning the genetic accuracy of the animals in question isn't calling the seller a liar, but I believe that it is reason enough to come to the seller's defense, especially since I KNOW that the person making the insinuation is wrong, as is evident in post #11 (I've never seen a hypo bloodred with RED eyes).

But any breeder could conceivably have surprises when there are hidden hets in their animals. As Susan has pointed out, if ultra is in the mix they would actually be more valuable. I don't know Doc but I certainly have no reason to even remotely suspect he'd lie about his animals, especially on an active forum!
As for a 'for sale' ad being hijacked, I'm a paid subscriber and I breed my corns. If I listed my hatchlings on here and there were questions about their genetics (not attacks, just questions) I honestly don't think I would be insulted. if anything I've said in this thread has been taken as an insult by the OP, then I apologise wholeheartedly, but will state that is in no way my intention.
If I thought Doc was lying, I'd actually say so. What I'm interested in is the possibility of there being hidden genes being expressed in the hatchlings. Just because a certain pair have produced bog-standard offspring in a previous clutch, the next clutch could beat the odds and throw up a hidden surprise.

Originally Posted by melrad_61000

Doc is having computer issues and is presently unable to respond, although from the very beginning he has insisted that these babies are hybinos and listed the parents. When this was a for sale ad, he was questioned about not only the genetics of the babies, but also the parents. That obviously wasn't good enough for certain individual(s). Now maybe hijacking someones for sale ad and questioning the genetic accuracy of the animals in question isn't calling the seller a liar, but I believe that it is reason enough to come to the seller's defense, especially since I KNOW that the person making the insinuation is wrong, as is evident in post #11 (I've never seen a hypo bloodred with RED eyes).

Why do you think I think a hypo blood can have red eyes? I just doubt if the father actually is homozygous amel. Do you mean you have seen the father and his eyes are red as in amelanistic red, so he is 100% sure homozygous for amel?

I'm excited there will be some additional photo's posted, I'm totally willing to admit me being wrong if the photo's show evidence of it.

Well Todd, I hope you have a good camera!! Don't stress the babies out too much when they arrive- we can all get by with a couple quick snapshots (in natural light!) of the eyes. Then after they have settled in and fed, you can post some defining shots.

I have no question (unless it's proven otherwise) myself about the borders- they look clear to me. The pigment hasn't developed, IMO.